Anyone else having problems with Champion Electric Bicycles?

[K Renner]

tdekeyser1,

Noticed that you only just signed on today. And that this is the only topic you've posted on. While I have no wish to give offense - it does cause me to wonder if I should suspect the presence of a "paid-spokesperson" here. (or, perhaps even Brian W from Champion, by another name).

 

[tdekeyser1]

Yeah, I guess I can see that from what i've read on this topic. But no, I'm not anyone affiliated with any of these companies. Just a customer. I have been monitoring the web for ANY news on the X2 delays.....hence this site had the most conversation, and even an employee from Champion themselves! So I signed up to reply with the news I got today from Prodeco.

I'll be posting in other threads as soon as I become an X2 owner

 

[rdvi5]

Hello everyone,

I have been lurking off and on for the past week, and decided to register for an ES account. It appears some videos are not visible unless you are logged-on. In any case, back to the discussion...


According to a message recently posted on the Prodeco Facebook page, they hope to begin production of the X2 by May 10th. However, their web page still only indicates "Coming Soon". Hopefully the Facebook page information is true. I only placed my order recently, so I have not had the frustrations many of you had. However, I guess that also means I am near the end of the shipping list :? .



P.S. I also placed my order through Champion, I can confirm my credit card has not yet been billed. Either they have learned a lesson, or K Renner's situation was an unfortunate fluke. In any case, I agree the credit card should not have been billed until shipping had been confirmed. Since the bikes are shipped directly from the manufacturing site, I think it would be important to have a good communication procedure in place between Prodeco and their Dealers regarding orders/shipping.

 

[linberl]

I ordered a Stride, not the uber popular Phantom, through Champion. Placed order 2/29/12. I was told 2 weeks and my credit card was charged.
I followed up calling them to check on delivery as I was selling my car and replacing it with this bike. Told bike was in shipping queue. I sold
my car. Heard nothing from Champion, checked again and was told "there are delays". Finally, after being given a lot of bs excuses, I called
Prodeco and they told me they are always a minimum of 3 weeks out on orders, that Champion and all drop shippers are allowed only so many
bikes per day, and that Champion had a large queue ahead of me. My bike was not scheduled to even go into production until the 4th week
of March based on Champion's allotment. I pleaded my case, now completely without a vehicle, and Prodeco was able to push me up one
week so I got my bike April 4th. After being charged in full on Feb. 29th. In my experience and opinion, Champion is so concerned with
making money and securing orders that they take more orders than they can possibly fill based on their Prodeco allotment and just string
customers along. Irresponsible at best, dishonest at worst. Had they told me they were not able to even get my bike into Prodeco's queue
for weeks, I would have ordered from a different dealer who actually had them coming to his shop to sell. It's not like I got a price
break from Champion. I've got all the emails from Champion with all the bs I was told; my two friends who loved my bike have placed
their orders with bike-smiths@ebay and are very happy with the service. I wish I had gone that route instead of Champion. On the positive
side, I do love my bike

 

[eastotto]

Yes I got into it a few weeks back with Champion when they insisted that Phantom X2 orders would be filled by end of April and I said no way.(looks like they were wrong again) I don't think they have a clue on running a business ethically as prodeco informed me a few days ago it would be at least the middle of May before they are ready and more likely the end of the month. I think Champion intentionaly gives buyers misleading information on delivery times just to get the order and then string their customers along. I would not order any product from them as there are many good dealers out there to buy from.

 

[Frog]

I'm saving and about to order the X2 all the dealer web sites still say it has a 5AH quick charger other then Champion. When I called Champion the told me the truth that the 5AH charger was discontinued and that all Prodeco bikes are shipping with the same 2AH charger. Also Champion's price is $100 less then most dealers on all the bikes. So with that and the fact I know they are an authorized dealer I think i'll be going with Champion.

I still think Prodeco should have dropped the price at least a little when they discontinued the 5AH charger.

 

[linberl]

Frog - if this is the one you are looking for, this is the dealer my friends used. He currently has 2 in stock. Don't know if the price is what you want to pay but my friends ordered and he shipped within 3 days based on having it in stock...good luck either way, the bikes are awesome, so in the end the dealer is only a minor issue. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prodeco-Technologies-2012-PHANTOM-X-36V-500W-LiFEPO4-Electric-Bicycle-Bike-eBike-/270965920081?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item3f16d3d151#ht_5114wt_1165

 

[Frog]

Frog - if this is the one you are looking for, this is the dealer my friends used. He currently has 2 in stock. Don't know if the price is what you want to pay but my friends ordered and he shipped within 3 days based on having it in stock...good luck either way, the bikes are awesome, so in the end the dealer is only a minor issue. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prodeco-Technologies-2012-PHANTOM-X-36V-500W-LiFEPO4-Electric-Bicycle-Bike-eBike-/270965920081?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item3f16d3d151#ht_5114wt_1165

Thanks for the tip but thats the Phantom X 9ah I want the X2 12ah it's going to be (at least) a few weeks before we see any dealers with it in stock.

 

[rdvi5]

Yes I got into it a few weeks back with Champion when they insisted that Phantom X2 orders would be filled by end of April and I said no way.(looks like they were wrong again)

I think the problem is, they blindly believed/echoed everything Prodeco told them. In some cases, it appears they also charged customers in anticipation of shipping (likely based on Prodeco's unreliable shipping information). Considering Prodeco's current track record for delays, that proved to be a mistake.

Information collected from messages on the Prodeco facebook page...

October 2011...All 2012 Models are Scheduled for Release in Mid-November.

January 3 2012...Begin production of Phantom X2 on April 6, and shipment scheduled to start April 10.
(reason for delays: demand exceeded production capacity)

According to additional information on the January 3rd message, Prodeco has since increased their production capabilities by 300%. I assume that means they hired more people. According to a company profile on the internet updated Oct 2011, Prodeco's number of employees was between 20-49. I assume part of that is Administrative and Management staff. Exactly how many employees are actually assembling bikes is unclear. The message also indicates they assemble specific bike models on pre-scheduled days. Hence they are not always putting out the X2 model continuously.

The latest information from Prodeco on April 25 2012... Hoping to begin production of Phantom X2 on May 10th. No definite shipping date provided.
(reason for delay: recently had the new battery design tested and approved)

 

[rdvi5]

Latest update:

According to a post in response to a battery question made yesterday on the Prodeco Facebook page, they don't appear to actually have the new 12ah battery in their possession. Prodeco is hoping they will arrive by next week. Hopefully this does not cause further delays in the production/shipping of the Phantom X2 bikes (which uses that battery), estimated to begin tomorrow May 10th.

 

[Frog]

Latest update:

According to a post in response to a battery question made yesterday on the Prodeco Facebook page, they don't appear to actually have the new 12ah battery in their possession. Prodeco is hoping they will arrive by next week. Hopefully this does not cause further delays in the production/shipping of the Phantom X2 bikes (which uses that battery), estimated to begin tomorrow May 10th.

Oh no well thanks for the updates if you would let us know when you get any more or your bike.

 

[K Renner]

FINALLY did get my bike(s). I can say without equivocation that it's worth the wait. Knowing a bit more accurately what the wait might be, & not being charged for the bikes months in advance of delivery would avoid much misunderstanding, ill-feeling, and topics like this one on forums.

 

[JimBiker]

I placed an order through a "dealer", with a deposit, on March 27, 2012. Here it is May 14, 2012, with no idea when I might see the bike. With no communication from Prodeco regarding order status I guess patience is the key word here.

 

[JimBiker]

For K. Renner,

How long had your bike been on order? Might give the rest of us an idea of the backlong

Thanks, Jim

 

[csm]

FINALLY did get my bike(s). I can say without equivocation that it's worth the wait. Knowing a bit more accurately what the wait might be, & not being charged for the bikes months in advance of delivery would avoid much misunderstanding, ill-feeling, and topics like this one on forums.

I was watching some car shows on Porsche, Firarri, Rolls Royce, and other high end cars.. And it seems that having to wait is not uncommon for them. I test rode the 2011 models.. And I have ridden hundreds, perhaps even over a thousand different electric bicycles/scooters/motorcycles, And this one, considering it's performance, warrantee, and price were one of the best production ebikes I have personally ridden. Pedego has a good bike too, but there price is quite a bit higher (maybe close to double the price?) and I don't think they have such a good warantee, especially on the battery, which still seems to be one of the biggest cost factors on the ebike. Golden Motor, if they had better customer support, which is currently tough to get at the moment, because of it design features such as self contained controller, rich included features such as built in regenerative braking, cruise control, alarm, and USB interface to adjust settings on the controller, and amazing price for what you get. Although, it seems their company was more of a ebike kit product, which has some advantages for those who want to add electric assist to ther own bike. I am wondering if Prodeco will offer kit packages.. or even make purchasing all the parts to make up their own kit, like motor wiring harness, brake levers, throttle, and batter, to be able to add to thier own bike. I like thier use of modular components, which seems to be the trend (thankfully) among some of the bigger ebike manufacturers, like iZip and Pedego, and Golden Motor. I am wondering if the brake lever and throttle cable connections are interchangable among these different companies? It would be great if there was a standard connection interface, such computer industry has done with USB and MicroUSB. Maybe even the electric bicycle manufacturers could actually use microUSB connecters to attach brake levers and throttles.. the voltage are in the right range of 5 volts, as USB spec standards.. Then they could even add micro USB slots for additional devices like the cycle analyst, or android phone with a cycle analyst kind of app running? add temp sensors, charging ports..

 

[linberl]

@csm - Prodeco did offer a battery kit until January of this year. They no longer provide this option, I assume because they need every battery available for complete units and sales of secondary batteries to customers. Maybe once they have a more consistent supply (if demand is ever met), they will reconsider.

 

[K Renner]

For JimBiker, took two months, give or take a couple of days. Think you might expect delivery end of this month, beginning of June - based on my experience. Hope your deposit wasn't too large. Much of my frustration was born of being billed for the full amount up front.

For csm, Prodeco did offer a kit in the past, but they don't anymore. USB pinouts for various functions might be a good idea, but the connectors are pretty much not something that one can expose to the outdoor elements.

 

[csm]

@csm - Prodeco did offer a battery kit until January of this year. They no longer provide this option, I assume because they need every battery available for complete units and sales of secondary batteries to customers. Maybe once they have a more consistent supply (if demand is ever met), they will reconsider.

I think they are doing a smart thing by being sure that their customer needs are met first.. and that they are careful about quality assurance of thier products.. Their reputation in these early years will be very important factor in thier long term success.

I suppose you are an insider with Prodeco? What is the business plan for scaling up production? Is there current plan to more exclusively distribute/market thier products to people in the USA and perhaps Canada? Any idea of them setting up office, assembly, or distribution/shipping from Los Angeles? I am thinking Los Angeles area would be awesome spot, considering it is the largest port of call(especially to Asian countries) on the West Coast of North America, and with massive infrastructure for shipping out to other parts of the USA from probably one of busies commercial airports in the USA. And lots of high tech resources.

 

[rdvi5]

According to a message reply posted less than an hour ago on the Prodeco Facebook page, the Phantom X2 will be ready to begin shipping in a couple weeks.

 

[linberl]

@csm - No, i'm not a prodeco "insider". Just a consumer who spent a lot of time on research and hours talking with them to get my bike after being mislead by Champion. I've also had some terrific email interactions regarding minor issues and questions as they are extremely responsive, once you get their attention initially. They are so overwhelmed that making the first contact can be difficult but they do respond well on their Facebook page if you have questions. I've even seen them post on weekends! Someone previously posted your same question.

 

[csm]

@csm - No, i'm not a prodeco "insider". Just a consumer who spent a lot of time on research and hours talking with them to get my bike after being mislead by Champion. I've also had some terrific email interactions regarding minor issues and questions as they are extremely responsive, once you get their attention initially. They are so overwhelmed that making the first contact can be difficult but they do respond well on their Facebook page if you have questions. I've even seen them post on weekends!

The facebook page is awesome! Thanks to Mark Zuckerberg for fbook.

 

[ChampionElectricBicycles]

@csm - No, i'm not a prodeco "insider". Just a consumer who spent a lot of time on research and hours talking with them to get my bike after being mislead by Champion. I've also had some terrific email interactions regarding minor issues and questions as they are extremely responsive, once you get their attention initially. They are so overwhelmed that making the first contact can be difficult but they do respond well on their Facebook page if you have questions. I've even seen them post on weekends! Someone previously posted your same question.

Linda,

Let me set the record straight here. Nobody at Champion "misled" you on anything. The time frame that we gave you and that we have given to all of our customers is/was the time frame that Prodeco gave to us. The only reason why your order shipped out when it did is because you called Prodeco and ruffled some feathers over there and they ended up bypassing a slew of other customers who ordered before you to make you happy. That is the truth. Was that fair to our other customers who ordered before you? Absolutely not. However, at the time you ordered, we gave you the time frame that was given to us by Prodeco. At that time it was "5-10 business days" (aka 2 weeks). Which obviously turned out not to be the case. I don't know who you spoke to over there that told you anything different than that, but whoever it was gave you false information. Unfortunately, we have been routinely given inaccurate time frames when it has come to shipping out orders for our customers and this has been the trend for quite awhile now. There's a lot more that can be said on this subject, but I will just leave it at that for now. However, all pending orders are with Prodeco and they will be shipped based on their schedule, per always. We will continue to update our existing customers until every order is shipped.

Brian W.
Champion Bicycles

 

[linberl]

Brian,
I have an email from Jonathan telling me my bike was in the shipping queue (his statement) which was not the case.
I have an email from Jonathan assuring me I could safely sell my car because the bike would be delivered in two weeks.
For Jonathan to tell me something as specific as "it is in the shipping queue and your deliver date is March 14th" when Prodeco
clearly explained it was not even on the list to be manufactured yet because you had a backlog and can only get so many
bikes through per day, was duplicitous. Champion did not say "we aren't sure what's happening but let us talk to Prodeco
and find out" -- Champion quoted a specific date and specific information about where the bike was in the process.
None of it was true. I do not believe you were just telling me what Prodeco told you; I believe you are taking lots of
orders (Prodeco says you are a top seller) and, given their quota per dealer per day, there is no way my bike would have
been processed as I was told. In fact, your response indicates you had a "slew of other customers ahead of me". Given
the quota system that Prodeco uses to be fair to all their dealers, you clearly had to know it would not happen in two
weeks as I was quoted and emailed. Had Champion been honest in dealing with me regarding the time frame, I would
have delayed selling my car and would not have had to literally beg Prodeco to help so I was not without
transportation for a month.
I realize Champion is not going to take responsibility for the misinformation but Prodeco is designing an order verification system into their new website
to address this and hopefully no one else will be put in such a difficult situation.

 

[ChampionElectricBicycles]

Brian,
I have an email from Jonathan telling me my bike was in the shipping queue (his statement) which was not the case.
I have an email from Jonathan assuring me I could safely sell my car because the bike would be delivered in two weeks.
For Jonathan to tell me something as specific as "it is in the shipping queue and your deliver date is March 14th" when Prodeco
clearly explained it was not even on the list to be manufactured yet because you had a backlog and can only get so many
bikes through per day, was duplicitous. Champion did not say "we aren't sure what's happening but let us talk to Prodeco
and find out" -- Champion quoted a specific date and specific information about where the bike was in the process.
None of it was true. I do not believe you were just telling me what Prodeco told you; I believe you are taking lots of
orders (Prodeco says you are a top seller) and, given their quota per dealer per day, there is no way my bike would have
been processed as I was told. In fact, your response indicates you had a "slew of other customers ahead of me". Given
the quota system that Prodeco uses to be fair to all their dealers, you clearly had to know it would not happen in two
weeks as I was quoted and emailed. Had Champion been honest in dealing with me regarding the time frame, I would
have delayed selling my car and would not have had to beg Prodeco to help me out!!!

Linda,

I have personally gone through all the emails between you and Jonathan and nowhere does he ever say that your delivery date was March 14th. He had given you an initial time frame of 2 weeks and provided you with updates along the way and every single one of your emails (and there were several) were all responded to within 24 hours with the most recent and most accurate information available and given to us at the time. Again, all of our updates we received and have passed along to our customers were directly given to us by Prodeco. To be honest, we were not aware of how backlogged Prodeco was getting with orders, because no one there ever told us anything. There is a lot more I could elaborate on in regards to this situation, but I will say that whatever information they gave you at Prodeco was not given to us at anytime whatsoever. So if they have told you that WE were aware of the extended delays and that WE deliberately gave you or anyone else false information regarding ship times, they are not being honest with you. You mention Prodeco's "quota system" that is supposedly fair to all dealers. Well that is news to us. As far as we are concerned, all orders (regardless of which dealers submitted them) should be shipped out in the order that they are received. If they have told you that they have been shipping out orders in any other order BUT in the order that they were received, regardless if the customer has ordered through us or another dealer, then I would strongly question who provided you with that information and I would question exactly how "fair" that is to the customer. It was not fair of them in my opinion to bump your order out in front of customers who ordered before you did, just as it was not fair that they would give us a shipping time frame of 2 weeks and then tell our customers that we knew all along that they would not be shipped in 2 weeks, when they are the ones who gave us that time frame in the first place. I'm glad that you got your order shipped out within 3 weeks. You must have been very persistent with them. But please do not attempt to throw us under the bus with comments such as we "misled you", when that couldn't be further from the truth (and we have the emails to prove it). We have always taken our directives (or lack there of) from Prodeco directly in regards to their product line. As a previous poster on here had mentioned, the Phantom X2, as posted on their Facebook page, was due out in November. And here we are in May and they still have not shipped out yet. So if we informed our customers back in October that the X2 was coming out in November (which we did), would that be considered "misleading", when Prodeco themselves publicly announced it on their Facebook page that they were coming out at that time? Please consider this very carefully..

Brian W.
Champion Bicycles

 

[linberl]

Brian,
I don't want to turn this forum into a personal battle. I know what I have in documentation, I know what Prodeco did (and I did not push them, I told them I needed to cancel the order if it didn't ship by the end of March because I would need to buy a Pedego from a local dealer so I had transportation; they offered to move me up one week, in fact saving you a refund). Their service has been excellent before and after I got the bike. Can't say the same for Champion. Buyer beware, imo.