Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Higher power with a throttle can and will be dangerous for the average person.

The other aspect is the quality of the bike, the authorities probably assume that most bikes are either junk, or won't be maintained to a sufficient standard for 50 km/h cruising.

This is of course all solved with the S-pedelec standard - 45km/h, but you must pedal and have a certified bike.
 
What classes as certified?
is s-pedelec some kind of smart pedelec?
The ones ive used are dumb and if they were high powered they would be dangerous
 
Just having a think last night about this.

After riding around at 25km an hour, I find myself too slow, yet in my offroad adventures at a family members farm i've found 35km with another "motor" considerably more fun and reasonable speed wise. With a bit of pedalling and the assistance of the motor (which stops around 35km an hour) I can see 40km an hour and maintain that for around a minute. Downhills without having motor assist I can clock around 52km an hour, that must be attributed to the weight of the bike now lol.

I took my time to build up the chopper bicycle and check every last nut and bolt, and actually replaced all the bolts for something stronger.

In speaking about different styles of bikes, I had a good stint of 4 months attempting to do some road cycling on my road bike and found myself always on the edge, the thin tyres made me feel like I was going to fall off and low speed manoeuvring mean't that I would unclick my feet from the pedals. On the road I feel MUCH safer knowing I can put my feet down so quickly and sitting so low allows me to get a good stance on the handlebars which would be about the height of my chest.

At the moment the "occurances" with cyclists getting enough bad rep with only pedal

I did actually go past a highway patrol car who was stopping people for going in a bus lane and just pedalled past them slowly. They didn't look twice at me, partly as I was making no noise and I wasn't an interuption to the general public.

I have had cars in the past that were quite low and the exhausts were maybe a bit too loud and I had passed police all the time, I had 3 highway patrol bikes behind me once taking off from the lights and it would have been more than noticable how loud the exhaust was, since I was driving safely and properly I was never picked up.
 
'kay here's my 10c worth...

I build and sell e-bikes n kits that come in a "base form" that are complient with our AUS 250 w 25 km/h laws, and are easily upgradable to 1500w.

I am constantly riding n test riding various builds, I've done thousands of KMs around melbourne on various builds...

the only time I had a PO (police officer) look twice at what I was riding was on a massive build I made with top box and enormous (yet crap) front forks etcetera that looked like a motorcycle (the PO was on foot and directing traffic around the MCG during grand final time so was in no position to haul me up... and purty much after that I shelved that build)

On the bike builds I have NEVER been stopped by a PO, and have actually stopped n talked to a few (even the ones on bicycles) during this time... cos I am a beleiver in this tech and like to chat to the boys in blue and actually wnat to be VISIBLE to em...

My fave build setup is running 36v at 10 amps... gives me about 35 km/h and 350 watts... at this power/speed level, sure I have to pedal up the steeper grades, but I can keep up with purty much any human powered only cyclist. Running a higher 48v at 10 amps giving 50 km/h I find is more than fine for mixing it with pretty much all suburban traffic (by mixing it I mean hanging out on the roads, not the cycle ways)

a whiles back I built a road oriented (front wheel drive with 700c rear human powered) for one of my test pilots who does a 60 km round trip commute (yup... the guy is a cyclist.. but pushing 60 years of age and finding the last 10km in the foothills of the dandenongs to be wearying after a long days work) he found the bike was great for the last 10kms.. but on his human only powered bike he normally cruises at around 30 km/h+ and the legal cutout at 25km/h version I gave him was harder for him to maintain his standard higher speed of 30 km/h+. I am building another road oriented setup for him to test on 36v.

Now note this.. I have been riding MOTORCYCLES for over 30 years... I am very confident in traffic on a higher speed BICYCLE cos I know how to make myself visible, and "own the road" where necessary and Give Way where prudent... I would NOT put someone who has zero or minimal experience either as a cyclist or motorcyclist on a high powered e-bike n tell em to go play in traffic... Personally, for high powered e-bikes that mix it with the traffic I would prefer that aa minimum they have a Motorcyle Learners permit... not for the bit of paper but for the rider training which is part and parcel of getting the permit/licence... at least here in Victoria... Particularly for us males with an aggressive streak, as it is easy to forget just how squishy we are on impact with either a 1 tonne plus rolling weapon in the hands of a normal unconscious driver, let alone, the joys of gravel rash and the friction based skin removal that WILL occur between unprotected skin and a road surface.

joe
 
thats what i dont understand, whats the difference between getting powered assistance to 25kmh when you can personally ride at 30kmh? If the motor isn't clutched its just going to hurt your top speed. So do I junk the electrical parts and accelerate slower with a higher top speed, or keep the parts and accelerate quicker with a lower top speed?
I used to ride a lot then took a 10 year break, In that time I got my motorbike licence. Recently decided to start riding again, went and upgraded my bike to front power assistance, its very handy
 
chris... said:
thats what i dont understand, whats the difference between getting powered assistance to 25kmh when you can personally ride at 30kmh? If the motor isn't clutched its just going to hurt your top speed. So do I junk the electrical parts and accelerate slower with a higher top speed, or keep the parts and accelerate quicker with a lower top speed?
I used to ride a lot then took a 10 year break, In that time I got my motorbike licence. Recently decided to start riding again, went and upgraded my bike to front power assistance, its very handy
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The difference is, people who can ride 30km/h usually don't weigh 200kg :p

All laws are a bit arbitrary, and 25km/h is probably a bit low, but if you set a low enough speed, you bring your risk down to managable levels. Sure, anyone can just get on a bike and sprint 30km/h for a short time, but thats the key point. a short time. A small window for risk to occur in. Sure a fit cyclist can hit 70km/h+ on flats for a while... Heck, my personal best is 62km/h, but on a long ride, my average is 32km/h, and I had to train a year to get there.
 
Hi Guys,

There is a Monash University survey on electric bikes. Note, that they allow you to specify power output - 500-750w, 750w+

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ebikes

There is also an "ideal bike" question where you can tick the 'more power' option. :lol:
 
I did the survey its takes a while to do it, disappointed at the end there was no open question where you could say anything general about
issues with ebikes and the current ebike laws, I'm guessing its written by persons not terribly well experienced with ebikes. But its not a bad survey.
 
Yep i did it too, I was even fairly truthful :p You can tell just from the questions how they intend to publish the results and what spin / outcome they're looking to put on it.

A glaring omission from the list of options and accessories on the ebike was a cycle analyst. I made sure I put that as an "other"
 
eef0990c-a717-4236-938e-230a25e51aa4.jpg

Hey jay, what did you choose for your stealth fighter? I had to laugh.. wheres the mtb?
 
pendragon8000 said:
Hey jay, what did you choose for your stealth fighter? I had to laugh.. wheres the mtb?
Click to expand...

You guys are worried about mountain bikes? I ride a recumbent trike and IIRC there was no 'none of the above' button...
 
Ben Wilson said:
You guys are worried about mountain bikes? I ride a recumbent trike and IIRC there was no 'none of the above' button...
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me too !!

i went one step further and emailed the professor that posted the survey.

Jason.
 
Yuppers I emailed the Prof as well...

Purty interesting that there were only the three above mentioned pics of bikes... yet they did have a question that included what kinda bike (conversion question I think) that included the full range from recumbant through to mountain...

Pleasing to see this kinda research going on.

Joe

Edit: In fact I got a reply this morning... and hopefully his colleague is gonna get in touch with me some time... I'll let you know how it goes...
 
pendragon8000 said:
eef0990c-a717-4236-938e-230a25e51aa4.jpg

Hey jay, what did you choose for your stealth fighter? I had to laugh.. wheres the mtb?
Click to expand...
Yeah funny that they've only got the girly commercial step throughs or the motor scooter looking one (which the cops will try and book you for riding based on looks alone)
I went with B, with the rack on the back as that was the closest to the conversion option I'd picked prior. I have several bikes but went with my commuter one I'd converted as it seemed most representative of what they are trying to analyse and achieve. Dont forget this is put out by the institute of transport so that's their focus - they mention mtbs as an option to convert but in the section where it lists why you bought or ride your bike there's no option for recreational mtb riding, which is primarily what they are made for. And yeah, I dont think the stealths fit into their study. Where's the tick box for >5000w :lol:
There's a number of points I could email the Prof (I doubt it'd be him anyway, it'd be one of his students) but you can see the transport/commuting angle they're trying to take with this. It's a step in the right direction that they've taken on the EU guidelines for ebikes, now lets get them to step it up to match the wattage our friends in the US enjoy. 750w and 20mph (32km/hr) would get alot more people on bikes and out of cars.
 
Hyena said:
It's a step in the right direction that they've taken on the EU guidelines for ebikes, now lets get them to step it up to match the wattage our friends in the US enjoy. 750w and 20mph (32km/hr) would get alot more people on bikes and out of cars.
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Definitely agree though the EU guidelines are a baby step disguised & pitched as a HUGE leap forward. A huge leap forward in my mind would be at least 750W e-bike & unlimited moped rego. That would really encourage people & make a noticeable difference to ridiculous Sydney & Melbourne traffic, not to mention other cities that aren't much better off. About zero chance of that happening.
 
Probably not going to see much change in the near future with legislation to lift power limits because being about the safety and politics its going to get even more stringent.
As long as motor cyclists are going to carry on increasing the stats, its not going to improve the case. Example the cops are so over the Adelaide Hills being used as a TT track and riders pranging and killing themselves and scaring the crap out of residents, there having a bike blitz over the whole season, there's reports in the press of clocking guys doing 90 over the limit.
 
remf said:
Hyena said:
It's a step in the right direction that they've taken on the EU guidelines for ebikes, now lets get them to step it up to match the wattage our friends in the US enjoy. 750w and 20mph (32km/hr) would get alot more people on bikes and out of cars.
Click to expand...

Definitely agree though the EU guidelines are a baby step disguised & pitched as a HUGE leap forward. A huge leap forward in my mind would be at least 750W e-bike & unlimited moped rego. That would really encourage people & make a noticeable difference to ridiculous Sydney & Melbourne traffic, not to mention other cities that aren't much better off. About zero chance of that happening.
Click to expand...

EU reg coupled with German government push for ebikes has lead to commericial refinement of a product that has advanced ebikes further than any power increase would have and in turn has laid the path for an eventual increase of both speed and power.

The largest problem has been the lack of company RnD due to the largest bike market (China) being a 48V SLA mopeds.

EN15194 has changed all that.
 
Believe it or not, ALL e-bikes are illegal in New York state USA. Stupid. The world needs this now. e-cars are way too expensive. New legislation will pass soon to allow 1000 Watts and 23? mph. A good step forward but I can pedal my bike faster than 23 mph. And that is legal up to any posted speed limit.
 
sendler2112 said:
Believe it or not, ALL e-bikes are illegal in New York state USA. Stupid. The world needs this now. e-cars are way too expensive. New legislation will pass soon to allow 1000 Watts and 23? mph. A good step forward but I can pedal my bike faster than 23 mph. And that is legal up to any posted speed limit.
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yeah I recall seeing that NY law. thats so rediculous! I hope it gets sorted out soon, I imagine new york city and state to be an ideal place for an ebike when there is no ice/snow. or moby more so when there is ice/snow?
 
Architectonic said:
What are they going to say if a majority of the commuters use bikes with >250w of power, I wonder?
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Well I do believe that there are quite a few higher powered ebikes that would be used on the road that I would be confident would be better riders than some motorists. If anything i'd rather the bad motorists to be on a bicycle instead, that way they can see it from the other side and see what an awesome privilage it is to have a car.

I've run mine on 250 watts/25km an hour limit and I find myself more likely to get off and push it lol. It feels like I look silly, like the Wrights Bros plane on the SImpsons where Bart was actually walking faster than the plane. While it does help with the commuting, the 35-40km mark is hugely more fun.

Apart from the attention I get from a Chopper Bicycle, unless i'm pedalling I get all sorts of looks, welcomed and unwelcomed unfortunately. I feel it would be a lot easier to not be noticed with a conventional bike with a higher powered system then it would be to have a chopper bicycle running any sort of power. The unusual attracts.

Its interesting that having another car off the road and left at home and having a slightly more powerful ebike is more dangerous than sitting bumper to bumper in traffic clogging up the air with polutants.
 
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