Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes
- Thread starter Slowrider
- Start date
teslanv
1 MW
That is correct. Although it looks like your rotor shaft has the indentation for the O-Ring. Mine did not, and my O-Ring was shredded, which is why I had to "glue" the shaft in with thread locker.
Based on your video, I would agree with the others who suggest you may not have an issue at all.
I would advise that you reapply lubrication to the drive and reassemble.
Based on your video, I would agree with the others who suggest you may not have an issue at all.
I would advise that you reapply lubrication to the drive and reassemble.
Kepler
10 MW
This is a fix for early drives and should not be necessary on a late model drive unless of course you have old stock. This can be checked by looking at the serial number underneath.
The rotor and shaft shown is the new style unit and shouldn't need loctite added. The new type has an O ring groove for the O ring to sit in. The older style had no groove to locate the O ring. What would happen is that the shaft would spin the bearing and cause the shaft to become slightly undersized. The shaft should measure exactly 8.00mm. Mine wore down to 7.92mm which was enough to induce quite a noise through the drive. A did the loctite mod 1500 km ago and still is as quite as the day I bought it.
The rotor and shaft shown is the new style unit and shouldn't need loctite added. The new type has an O ring groove for the O ring to sit in. The older style had no groove to locate the O ring. What would happen is that the shaft would spin the bearing and cause the shaft to become slightly undersized. The shaft should measure exactly 8.00mm. Mine wore down to 7.92mm which was enough to induce quite a noise through the drive. A did the loctite mod 1500 km ago and still is as quite as the day I bought it.
jslabonte
10 W
Very good, thank you.
Although, I just realized my problem seem to be coming from the final gear assembly.
I don't know how, but it seem the final gear assembly shaft is freewheeling almost all the time? Traction is sporadic, and whenever I apply a tiny little bit of pressure on the shaft, the freewheel kicks in.
I checked the bearings, and reapplied grease.
No go.
Although, I just realized my problem seem to be coming from the final gear assembly.
I don't know how, but it seem the final gear assembly shaft is freewheeling almost all the time? Traction is sporadic, and whenever I apply a tiny little bit of pressure on the shaft, the freewheel kicks in.
I checked the bearings, and reapplied grease.
No go.
samsavvas
100 W
Hi Folks,
I have 2 BBSxx, one a 250w purchased some months ago and the 2nd a 350w bought recently from em3ev. The 250w is almost completely silent and has been from the very start. In contrast, the 350w unit (which I understand uses the same motor) is much noisier. It produces some discernible gear noise (not audible on the earlier 250w unit) which I'm a little concerned with. However I'm more worried about a loud cyclic 'thrumming' sound which I associate with misaligned or tight gears or bearings. It's relatively low frequency - maybe 2 or 3 cycles per second - so I associate it with the big gear sitting behind the chain wheel. I had wondered if it might result from clutzy assembly on my part, but I don't recall forcing anything into place - the installation ( on a Surly LHT) went very well.
I'm now wondering if it might just be a very slightly off-centre large secondary gear causing a cyclic tightening of engagement with the white nylon gear on the motor shaft? If so, is it likely to diminish or disappear with use? Anyone else experience this sort of noise or have any other ideas? The unit otherwise works fine and I guess I'm only vexed because I seem to be experiencing a level of noise absent on the previous unit and because I'm a bit worried about the possibility of longer-term associated wear...
Thanks,
Sam.
I have 2 BBSxx, one a 250w purchased some months ago and the 2nd a 350w bought recently from em3ev. The 250w is almost completely silent and has been from the very start. In contrast, the 350w unit (which I understand uses the same motor) is much noisier. It produces some discernible gear noise (not audible on the earlier 250w unit) which I'm a little concerned with. However I'm more worried about a loud cyclic 'thrumming' sound which I associate with misaligned or tight gears or bearings. It's relatively low frequency - maybe 2 or 3 cycles per second - so I associate it with the big gear sitting behind the chain wheel. I had wondered if it might result from clutzy assembly on my part, but I don't recall forcing anything into place - the installation ( on a Surly LHT) went very well.
I'm now wondering if it might just be a very slightly off-centre large secondary gear causing a cyclic tightening of engagement with the white nylon gear on the motor shaft? If so, is it likely to diminish or disappear with use? Anyone else experience this sort of noise or have any other ideas? The unit otherwise works fine and I guess I'm only vexed because I seem to be experiencing a level of noise absent on the previous unit and because I'm a bit worried about the possibility of longer-term associated wear...
Thanks,
Sam.
teslanv
1 MW
If you are saying that when you apply the throttle and hold the shaft that the shaft freewheels, then this is the proper and correct operation of the drive. The shaft should only engage when the motor is NOT doing any work and you want to pedal the bike manually.jslabonte said:
I suggest you install the kit on the bike, and then try it out.
tomjasz
1 GW
Kepler said:
Is the date known for the change over?
"Any motor built after ??/??/201? has the grove."
Thanks,
Tom
jslabonte
10 W
I think I explained myself wrong. Just to be clear, I'm very sure my motor is not operating in a normal fashion.
Just like slowrider and electrobob on page 1 of this thread, my motor is making a clicking sound while operating normally, unobstructed.
It's just like a freewheel sound, but while spinning forward. I'm 99% sure it's a mechanical sound, as opposed to an obstruction/grinding one, just like if the freewheel was engaging, but going forward.
I have isolated the problem to the final gear, but I can't find the root cause for it. If I remove the final gear and shaft, the noise is gone.
I verified that the screws under the final gear / PAS module (once the c-clip removed), are screwed in REALLY tight. Aside from that, I'm lost.
Does anybody have pictures/videos showing a fully disassembled final gear?
I'm mostly interested in bearing, o-ring, and metal spacers positioning on the final gear and shaft on the BBS02. Maybe they assembled it wrong ?
Just like slowrider and electrobob on page 1 of this thread, my motor is making a clicking sound while operating normally, unobstructed.
It's just like a freewheel sound, but while spinning forward. I'm 99% sure it's a mechanical sound, as opposed to an obstruction/grinding one, just like if the freewheel was engaging, but going forward.
I have isolated the problem to the final gear, but I can't find the root cause for it. If I remove the final gear and shaft, the noise is gone.
I verified that the screws under the final gear / PAS module (once the c-clip removed), are screwed in REALLY tight. Aside from that, I'm lost.
Does anybody have pictures/videos showing a fully disassembled final gear?
I'm mostly interested in bearing, o-ring, and metal spacers positioning on the final gear and shaft on the BBS02. Maybe they assembled it wrong ?
teslanv
1 MW
jslabonte said:
If you have not installed the drive yet, I suggest you do so to test the drive under load. You may find that the noise disappears, or is not significant enough to obsess over.
DRIVE WITH MASHED UP BEARING FIXED AND DONE 120 MILES WITH NO ISSUES! I wanted to wait until the rebuilt drive had got a few miles under its belt before reporting a final closure post.
I got the drive rebuilt with a new bearing. I had a few issues...
I had to sand with very fine wet and dry paper the hole for the of the new bearing as however I tried I couldnt push the new one in straight. Still seemed very tight but just a fine hone with the paper made it go in square.
The 2nd bearing I removed from the sort of triangular plate that you had to remove with the jacking screws. I removed this because it was kinda notchy and I thought it was bad. To my surprise when it was removed from the aluminium piece it ran more freely? I checked this bearing every way I knew and concluded it was good as new so I pushed it back in, it ran very slightly notchy again! So I took it out... it ran freely? By this point I was pretty sure, as strange as it sounds that when it was pushed in the pressure was deforming the race somehow? So I honed this the same with wet and dry and it pushed in a little easier but still tightly and ran smooth not notchy! I dont believe a race can deform but thats what I seemed to find?
I didnt actually know how to refit the two locking ring/nuts that hold the crank bearings in place. I could see the principle. One ring tightens up the bearing, the second is a lock ring that you lock onto the first to stop it undoing, the same principle as wheel bearings on a bike wheel or the main mounting system of the motor to the bike. The problem was that the first lockring/nut went into the casing too far to be able to hold whilt tightening the outer one onto it? I could get a pair of circlip pliers onto the outer one but the inner one was behind it shrouded by the casing? I ended up using a trial and error method of backing off the inner one and tightening the outer one onto it. The first few times it ended up too tight and the crank would hardly turn! Eventually I got it just about right, a little on the tight side but I thought rather that than too loose. There must be a better way but I cant see how you could get any tool in there to hold the inner one?
I lost one of the chain guard screws! Haven't found it 2 weeks later, hope its not in the motor!
I reassembled with some old tin of grease I had lying around called something like albeda grease. It looked a nice golden colour! The only other stuff i had was cv joint grease and was black and nasty looking and I didn't want it messing up my newly cleaned motor! I was a bit concerned that if it was petroleum based maybe it would melt the nylon cog or something? I considered getting all grease stressy and doing a load of research only to buy something made from synthetic turnip pulp or soneshit for like £30, so I just thought "to hell with it" and just turned a blind eye, grease is grease in my garage, its lucky it got any at all after the stress this motor gave me! So far so good, I packed plenty in for good measure.
When I first ran it off the bike and loosely in the frame I was disapointed, it didnt seem whisper quiet. I couldn't really remember how loud it was but after all the work I had put in I wanted it to be super quiet. Anyway it seemed to run okay and wasnt making any "bad" noises just a motor whirring noise. When it was bolted into the bike frame and the chain put on I felt better as the wheel/chain/pedal rotation noises seemed to mask the sound. On the road I realised I was being stoopid, its as quiet as the day it was new. Compared to the racket it made with a shot bearing its awesome!
It still has all the power it used to albeit with a slight disadvantage of a 50% filled slime tyre that weighs a ton! The added rotational weight seems to work the motor very slightly harder but the ride is superb. I think top speed is down by maybe 1 to 2 kph although that is very hard to measure, I feel the added 'flywheel' effect feels nice actually.
I looked into getting solid tyres to try. The only ones I could find didnt get good reviews (by normal cyclists that have to contend with the weight issue) but more to the point they required stretching over the rim and from what I can tell if the tyre is flexible enough to do this it must be too soft to give a good ride. They were expensive and seemed really difficult to fit etc.
I tried to research the effect of completely filling the tyre with liquid. This is almost never done on a bicycle or in fact any type of vehicle as far as I can tell, however I knew that if you could ever fill it completely with liquid (slime) under hydraulic pressure it should be rock hard, well thats what I thought. I knew I couldn't do this and it would probably be stupid heavy so went for an "experimental" tube 700C x 23 with a shoot load of slime in it, 50% roughly. The logic being with 50% less air to compress I thought it would seem harder at the same pressure than a straight air filled one. For some reason the tyre feels just as resistant to pinching/collapsing as before (i.e. still acts as if its just as "hard"), but the ride is more cushioned. I think it changes the characteristics of the tyre for the better and with less air in it when you hit a bump the pressure inside the tyre must rise more sharply and give more support.
The next thing I want to try is I have seen this stuff which i think is called ''aero gel''. Basically I want to find a substance that has the characteristics of water or slime but is lighter. I think aero gel is what my girlfriend has bought to put flowers in, it kind of swells up to form squishy balls when you add water. It holds the water but I'm thinking to do this it must have an element of 'structure'? Wonder if anyone has tried polystyrene balls? If you could get them small enough to fit in the tube, I want to try anything that displaces the air but is very light.
Anyway bike fixed and running fine. Thanks for all your help.
tomjasz
1 GW
Would you mind posting the serial number of this drive?aniken said:
Anyway bike fixed and running fine. Thanks for all your help.
Thanks,
Tom
eMax
100 W
Repost from main thread:
"I have a kit that has suddenly gone dead after 10 days of sheer joy. The controller will no longer turn on, appears dead. I finished riding for the day, disconnected battery, charged, plugged in next morning, nothing. There is no real explanation. All cables are properly connected, the battery is fully charged, has not been wet weather. Have been riding fairly conservatively. It is a 48v 500w kit with battery from EM3V. Waiting to hear back from Paul."
Any suggestions?
"I have a kit that has suddenly gone dead after 10 days of sheer joy. The controller will no longer turn on, appears dead. I finished riding for the day, disconnected battery, charged, plugged in next morning, nothing. There is no real explanation. All cables are properly connected, the battery is fully charged, has not been wet weather. Have been riding fairly conservatively. It is a 48v 500w kit with battery from EM3V. Waiting to hear back from Paul."
Any suggestions?
teslanv
1 MW
eMax said:
Do any error codes flash on the display when you first plug in the battery?
If it's not a bad connection, then it's either the display or the controller, both of which Paul should be able to replace.
Pull the controller off the motor and check all the phase and halls connections.
eMax
100 W
teslanv said:
No error codes as such, the unit does not power on at all. Will check the voltage of the battery first to rule that out, will also look at the fuse. Not too confident about pulling controller off is this a simple task? Will check the tear-down shots in this thread to get an idea about it.
Thanks.
teslanv
1 MW
Yes, check the battery fuse, or just check the battery leads with a DVM for appropriate voltage.eMax said:
The controller comes off quite easily. You don't need to disconnect the wire connections, but check to be sure they are all snugged up tight.
samsavvas
100 W
eMax said:
Silly question I guess but is the battery turned on? If it's the cased battery the blue light should be on. Incidentally, unless you need to take the battery of the bike I don't think you need to remove to charge it.
Savvas
eMax
100 W
samsavvas said:
Yeah its defiantly on blue light and all. Checked the fuse and its ok. Battery is showing 54.7v. Thinking it could be the controller.
samsavvas
100 W
eMax said:
Suggest you work with Paul - he's got some good problem solving strategies. It's got to be something simple. Paul checks all his units before they leave so it seems very unlikely that there will be a major problem. Have you tried unplugging the e-brake cables? You may have a short in there somewhere...
Savvas
Fishy1
1 mW
Daughter just emailed me. Her new BBS02 500WATT 48volt kit (one week old) isn't functioning. Display (961) works, indicates that there is 75 percent battery available. Display shows PAS changes but no power and throttle is no functional. She put 35 kilometers on Saturday. Controller failure? Hate to have to contact EM3EV.
Unfortunately she is two hours away so trouble shooting is difficult.
Thanks John
Unfortunately she is two hours away so trouble shooting is difficult.
Thanks John
tomjasz
1 GW
Someone much better than I will chime in, but I'd try to isolate the problem by disconnecting the brake levers and throttle, one at a time. I'm not certain as I'm still learning but couldn't they prevent running if shorted or not functioning correctly?
I'd also check every connector for a tight fit. My wife somehow managed to snag hers and partially disconnect the power.
Watching with keen interest..
Tom
I'd also check every connector for a tight fit. My wife somehow managed to snag hers and partially disconnect the power.
Watching with keen interest..
Tom
Fishy1
1 mW
Told Maureen to check this thread and follow up suggestions. Will be interesting if it is one of the HMBS brake sensors. Rather interesting how one always goes with the worst case scenario.
Thanks
Thanks
Hi All
Few days ago I installed brand new bbs01 350w and today during the test drive I noticed the dreaded clicking sound from the motor.
It sounds like the freewheel and it only clicks when the throttle is applied. When using PAS the motor is silent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NWwKvn-5I8
I guess there is something wrong with my motor?
Few days ago I installed brand new bbs01 350w and today during the test drive I noticed the dreaded clicking sound from the motor.
It sounds like the freewheel and it only clicks when the throttle is applied. When using PAS the motor is silent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NWwKvn-5I8
I guess there is something wrong with my motor?
tahustvedt
10 kW
micopl said:
Sounds normal to me, though the camera seems to amplify all the sounds. It's supposed to click. If you want to reduce the noise you can regrease the freewheel, but it will only last for a short while. A freshly greased freewheel makes less noise, so they are quieter at first.
teslanv
1 MW
Sounds like a noisy pawl on the freewheel.micopl said:
I would start by removing the crank, chainring, and final gearset & Spindle (Clutch). Check it over thoroughly, and then test the drive without the clutch installed to see if it still makes a clicking sound, the point being to isolate the symptoms to the clutch. If you cannot repair yours, it looks like GBK sells replacements.
http://www.greenbikekit.com/accesso...n-mid-crank-motor-clutch-for-replacement.html
Fishy1
1 mW
As suggested I had Maureen disconnect Ebrakes and throttle one at a time and see if motor would power up on pas. Yes, pas fit was checked first. No evidence of electrical life was observed.
Paul from EM3EV has suggested trying a known good display before assuming the controller is pooched. Not sure where this display will come from yet. He has asked what the cost of shipping the unit to Southern California might be if the controller is bad. Fourteen dollars to ship 2 CA3 auxiliary switches from Grin to Ontario so I guess a BBS02 motor to S. California will be very hefty without a business account. :?
Life goes on :wink:
Maybe I should have ordered a MAC10 rather than the S02. MY Ezee kit is working great.
Paul from EM3EV has suggested trying a known good display before assuming the controller is pooched. Not sure where this display will come from yet. He has asked what the cost of shipping the unit to Southern California might be if the controller is bad. Fourteen dollars to ship 2 CA3 auxiliary switches from Grin to Ontario so I guess a BBS02 motor to S. California will be very hefty without a business account. :?
Life goes on :wink:
Maybe I should have ordered a MAC10 rather than the S02. MY Ezee kit is working great.
