Bafang ultra,how strong is it.Does it overheat?
- Thread starter 1boris
- Start date
Joe King1 What are those 2 round plates on the sides of the chain ring?
Is it due to the chain falling? I use a chain keeper.
BTW:What is your opinion with PAS on the factory settings (this some as from Frey) of the Bafang controller?
I would estimate that for the factory setting was typical about 0.5-1 seconds delay on the end of pedaling. I felt it unpleasant in difficult terrain, especially at higher levels of assistance during slowly trail riding. After reprogramming I do not feel any delay. As for throttle, this is a tragic factory setting. I destroyed one chairing and bent a chain. I do not use a throttle any more.
Is it due to the chain falling? I use a chain keeper.
BTW:What is your opinion with PAS on the factory settings (this some as from Frey) of the Bafang controller?
I would estimate that for the factory setting was typical about 0.5-1 seconds delay on the end of pedaling. I felt it unpleasant in difficult terrain, especially at higher levels of assistance during slowly trail riding. After reprogramming I do not feel any delay. As for throttle, this is a tragic factory setting. I destroyed one chairing and bent a chain. I do not use a throttle any more.
Joe King1
I found your comment-you have old Exess controller on your Ultra, not typical factory controller.
Is old or new Exess controller programmable with program cable and PC? Are the degrees of assistance in % max. setting in both modes (Eco and Sport) known?
I found your comment-you have old Exess controller on your Ultra, not typical factory controller.
Is old or new Exess controller programmable with program cable and PC? Are the degrees of assistance in % max. setting in both modes (Eco and Sport) known?
Andy123
I have currently the Exess controller with their stock settings for ECO 1-5 & Sport 1-5. I have seen no need to reprogram other than the override condition you mentioned. On the Exess, I am only aware of the override under certain conditions, such as at the top of a hill.
Whether Exess reprogrammed the controller before they send the bikes out I do not know, but I haven't found their settings to interfere with my enjoyment. I am awaiting the new controller & will comment on the differences I notice. I don't know if the standard controller is programmable, & have found no need to do so as I am quite pleased with the performance in Sport 3 which is my preferred setting. I expect the new controller will have eliminated the overrun issue as they are aware of it. Do you know if a Domino throttle will work, or would it require some electronic mods ?
On the Christini spider I pictured above, I have a bashguard on the outside & a chainkeeper on the inside because I did drop the chain a few times even with a narrow-wide sprocket.
I have currently the Exess controller with their stock settings for ECO 1-5 & Sport 1-5. I have seen no need to reprogram other than the override condition you mentioned. On the Exess, I am only aware of the override under certain conditions, such as at the top of a hill.
Whether Exess reprogrammed the controller before they send the bikes out I do not know, but I haven't found their settings to interfere with my enjoyment. I am awaiting the new controller & will comment on the differences I notice. I don't know if the standard controller is programmable, & have found no need to do so as I am quite pleased with the performance in Sport 3 which is my preferred setting. I expect the new controller will have eliminated the overrun issue as they are aware of it. Do you know if a Domino throttle will work, or would it require some electronic mods ?
On the Christini spider I pictured above, I have a bashguard on the outside & a chainkeeper on the inside because I did drop the chain a few times even with a narrow-wide sprocket.
Andy123 said:
What setting did you change to make it immediate?
My last program settings Bafang Ultra (G510-1000) has several differences from the factory settings Frey:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=91035&hilit=bafang+g510+experience&start=550
Differences:
Basic:
Low Battery Protect:43 V -for 52V battery, 21Ah
Limit Current (%): Assist 10-15-20-30-40-50-60-80-100 (9 Assist No)
Wheel Diameter(inch)-according actual wheel
Pedal Assist:
Start Current (%):20
Time of stop(x10ms):5 (10 is not enough)
Current Decay (1-8):8
Throttle Handle: not tested yet, not connected
Start Voltage(x100mv):11
End Voltage(x100mV):40
Mode: Current
Start Current (%):3
Torque
Start (kg) : for Spd0:10
Return (kg) :for Spd0:7, for Spd20:7
Max Curr(%): for Spd0:50 for Spd20:75
Basic and PAS: The basic difference from the factory settings -response of the motor to the beginning and end of pedaling is now more sensitive and immediate. After reprogramming I do not feel any delay. But it is after one ride testing.
Throttle : The factory gas setting was tragic. The new setting aims to increase the range to 11-40, the gradual onset by decreasing to 3% and the linear onset by switching Mode from Speed to Current. I feel Mode Speed is as an instant full shot, which I think is not safe for riding and for chain ring and cassette too.
Torque: Taken from some site on ES.
Best site for Torque tuning is here-description of parameters..., but for Bafang Max-weaker motor.
Bafang Max: https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/tuning-fischer-proline-evo-em-1762-s1-mit-bafang-mittelmotor.53756/
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=91035&hilit=bafang+g510+experience&start=550
Differences:
Basic:
Low Battery Protect:43 V -for 52V battery, 21Ah
Limit Current (%): Assist 10-15-20-30-40-50-60-80-100 (9 Assist No)
Wheel Diameter(inch)-according actual wheel
Pedal Assist:
Start Current (%):20
Time of stop(x10ms):5 (10 is not enough)
Current Decay (1-8):8
Throttle Handle: not tested yet, not connected
Start Voltage(x100mv):11
End Voltage(x100mV):40
Mode: Current
Start Current (%):3
Torque
Start (kg) : for Spd0:10
Return (kg) :for Spd0:7, for Spd20:7
Max Curr(%): for Spd0:50 for Spd20:75
Basic and PAS: The basic difference from the factory settings -response of the motor to the beginning and end of pedaling is now more sensitive and immediate. After reprogramming I do not feel any delay. But it is after one ride testing.
Throttle : The factory gas setting was tragic. The new setting aims to increase the range to 11-40, the gradual onset by decreasing to 3% and the linear onset by switching Mode from Speed to Current. I feel Mode Speed is as an instant full shot, which I think is not safe for riding and for chain ring and cassette too.
Torque: Taken from some site on ES.
Best site for Torque tuning is here-description of parameters..., but for Bafang Max-weaker motor.
Bafang Max: https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/tuning-fischer-proline-evo-em-1762-s1-mit-bafang-mittelmotor.53756/
eBikeaholic
10 mW
I figured out how to get the factory controller torque sensor settings setup nice for road commuting... gives a nice consistent power flow now. Here's my simple walk through vid: https://youtu.be/I4rBNGxSO7k
Ultra G510 (stock controller 30A, 1560w) from Alibaba, Luna DPC-18 display, Luna Wolf 52v (30Q), DIY frame, high geared single speed 58T/17T, 24" wheels (6.1 gain ratio).
I haven't messed with the throttle, it feels fine to me but throttle power is limited to the PAS level.
I've been beating the heck out of it while range and speed testing since summer. It's been riding like a dream but is starting to give the occasional 'controller overheating' error code 10. My cheapo little harbor freight IR thermometer showed the motor at 128 F. No clue how accurate that is.
It never gave an error all summer while whipping it at full power in 100+ F ambient, but now threw the error 10 once in 50 degrees F outside while riding PAS 1 of 3 (only 750w). The motor doesn't cutoff, it just reduces power, throws the code for a second then gets back to work. I'm hoping to get a Nexus 3 IGH on there soon to see if some gear range can help lighten the load on the motor.
I'm assuming maybe this means I burnt out the cheap factory grease using the high geared single speed all summer? The high gearing bog could also be exacerbated by the steady power flow of my programming settings ...will likely have to open it up soon for a look-see. This motor is a workhorse though and should be able to take many miles of abuse with more common bike gearing.
Ultra G510 (stock controller 30A, 1560w) from Alibaba, Luna DPC-18 display, Luna Wolf 52v (30Q), DIY frame, high geared single speed 58T/17T, 24" wheels (6.1 gain ratio).
I haven't messed with the throttle, it feels fine to me but throttle power is limited to the PAS level.
I've been beating the heck out of it while range and speed testing since summer. It's been riding like a dream but is starting to give the occasional 'controller overheating' error code 10. My cheapo little harbor freight IR thermometer showed the motor at 128 F. No clue how accurate that is.
It never gave an error all summer while whipping it at full power in 100+ F ambient, but now threw the error 10 once in 50 degrees F outside while riding PAS 1 of 3 (only 750w). The motor doesn't cutoff, it just reduces power, throws the code for a second then gets back to work. I'm hoping to get a Nexus 3 IGH on there soon to see if some gear range can help lighten the load on the motor.
I'm assuming maybe this means I burnt out the cheap factory grease using the high geared single speed all summer? The high gearing bog could also be exacerbated by the steady power flow of my programming settings ...will likely have to open it up soon for a look-see. This motor is a workhorse though and should be able to take many miles of abuse with more common bike gearing.
I can confirm I have been running the new exess controller for some time now @40Amps and it was absolutely the best thing I could have hoped for, i run mainly in turbo 1 and sometimes 2 as that is more than enough power. Even slow cadence is not much of a problem although after running off road at 25mph for 20/30 mins is does tend to overheat so I just slow down for a bit. You do have to send your motor off to them as they change the controller and add a hal sensor i believe which is of a much higher quality. They do use the default torque sensor that comes installed on the BB though. It can be an expensive upgrade but is totally worth it if you have a decent custom battery or maybe a spare for range.
Climbed Mt Snowdon a few months back with no issues or overheating :wink:
Climbed Mt Snowdon a few months back with no issues or overheating :wink:
eBikeaholic
10 mW
Ipodbob said:
Awesome, that sounds like a great upgrade. I just reached out on their website contact form for details. What voltage are you running it at? Do you know if they'll do that upgrade with any Ultra or only motors purchased through them?
I do run a 30AH battery at 52v though, I will warn you 15AH batteries with only get you 20 miles or so. I got a custom one built with a custom frame bag which barely fits, adds 5kg but the extra range and power is totally worth it.
Can climb 5000ft in eco 2/3 and do around 50 miles hard graft.
Can climb 5000ft in eco 2/3 and do around 50 miles hard graft.
Its Exess & no they won't ship the new controller to Canada because Canada like the US requires Underwriter's laboratories certification & Exess hasn't filed paperwork.
You might contact Pushkar @ https://wattwagons.com/collections/select-your-watt-wagon/products/travalanche in Massachusetts. He is importing Exess bikes into N. America & might be able to help. He also will be putting on Archon X1 controllers which will allow the Ultra to deliver 3000+w.
You might contact Pushkar @ https://wattwagons.com/collections/select-your-watt-wagon/products/travalanche in Massachusetts. He is importing Exess bikes into N. America & might be able to help. He also will be putting on Archon X1 controllers which will allow the Ultra to deliver 3000+w.
Ipodbob said:
Nice, could you write longer user experience overview for all of us who are dreaming about the exess controller as well?
Have you used stock Ultra or Bosch,Shimano,Brose,Yamaha as well, how does the power delivery/torque sensing compare to exess?
I've had the updated Exess controller in my bike for a few rides & totally agree with ipodbob that it's a great upgrade.
I had the original Exess controller for about a year & the new one is a significant upgrade in power & delivery. I used to have an over-run issue when cresting hills & that is gone. 1600w to 2200w is also very noticeable.
Exesses come with 10 power settings (Eco 1-5 & Sport 1-5). With the original (1600w) controller I would primarily use Sport 3. With the new controller, Eco 3 is more powerful than Sport 3 was before & Sport 1 now is even more powerful. I ride off-road exclusively so road use would be different.
I've been riding a Bosch Performance CX also & there is really no functional comparison between them...it's a different activity. Riding a 250/500w bike is having the motor assist your effort, riding a 2200w Ultra is closer to a pedal motorcycle. The slightest effort is rewarded with a forward thrust or just use the throttle. The bike pulls & accelerates. The power is there whenever you want it & will even compensate for poor gear & line choices. It helps you navigate technical sections & accelerate up hills. There is an immediacy to the power that just builds, like a Tesla which in part explains their appeal.
I sometimes start a ride thinking it'll just be chill .....within a few minutes I find myself bashing berms. If you plan to ride these bikes off-road, you'll quickly see the faster you go the more you'll love the power.
I had the original Exess controller for about a year & the new one is a significant upgrade in power & delivery. I used to have an over-run issue when cresting hills & that is gone. 1600w to 2200w is also very noticeable.
Exesses come with 10 power settings (Eco 1-5 & Sport 1-5). With the original (1600w) controller I would primarily use Sport 3. With the new controller, Eco 3 is more powerful than Sport 3 was before & Sport 1 now is even more powerful. I ride off-road exclusively so road use would be different.
I've been riding a Bosch Performance CX also & there is really no functional comparison between them...it's a different activity. Riding a 250/500w bike is having the motor assist your effort, riding a 2200w Ultra is closer to a pedal motorcycle. The slightest effort is rewarded with a forward thrust or just use the throttle. The bike pulls & accelerates. The power is there whenever you want it & will even compensate for poor gear & line choices. It helps you navigate technical sections & accelerate up hills. There is an immediacy to the power that just builds, like a Tesla which in part explains their appeal.
I sometimes start a ride thinking it'll just be chill .....within a few minutes I find myself bashing berms. If you plan to ride these bikes off-road, you'll quickly see the faster you go the more you'll love the power.
Kitaro1999
1 W
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2017
- Messages
- 58
Is Watt Wagons offering a controller-only upgrade? Looks like they offer it as part of the motor right now.
If the performance is as good as you make it out to be, it will be a worthy upgrade. I wouldn't mind spending if it gives my bike a new life. Looks like if it ships to Germany and back it is €390 + €50 install + whatever tax + $120 to ship and ~$120 to ship back. That is close to $750 for the whole thing, and you have to wait for a month for that to happen.
If the performance is as good as you make it out to be, it will be a worthy upgrade. I wouldn't mind spending if it gives my bike a new life. Looks like if it ships to Germany and back it is €390 + €50 install + whatever tax + $120 to ship and ~$120 to ship back. That is close to $750 for the whole thing, and you have to wait for a month for that to happen.
Hey guys, this is Pushkar, I am the owner of WW.
There is no relationship b/w WW and EBR to my knowledge. I frequent EBR more so than any other forum. I started a discussion topic that led me to design the v2 of my UC Pro. EBR admins allowed me to have a private forum so I could discuss the details with more "transparency" with the select group of buyers.
I also got off on the wrong foot with one of the admins on ES - completely my fault TBH- it happens. So there was little motivation to come back and actively post here.
I will try to frequent ES more. I would be happy to answer any questions you all may have about the bikes, motors, controllers etc.
There is no relationship b/w WW and EBR to my knowledge. I frequent EBR more so than any other forum. I started a discussion topic that led me to design the v2 of my UC Pro. EBR admins allowed me to have a private forum so I could discuss the details with more "transparency" with the select group of buyers.
I also got off on the wrong foot with one of the admins on ES - completely my fault TBH- it happens. So there was little motivation to come back and actively post here.
I will try to frequent ES more. I would be happy to answer any questions you all may have about the bikes, motors, controllers etc.
eBikeaholic
10 mW
sorry to switch us back to heat concerns, but I'm planning to regrease my Ultra - what grease are y'all recommending to keep this bad boy cool? I'm in TX so it's usually dry and summer highs are consistently over 100°F.
I bought some Mobilgrease 28 mostly because the SHC100 wasn't available at the time. I'd imagine both will work great but does anyone have technical details or comparison experience as to why one would be better for the Ultra?
Some suggest that SHC100 is better for the BBSHD because the organo-clay thickener of the 28 is not best for the nylon gear (not a concern for the Ultra?). Is the SHC100 newer, improved version? ... most of what I've read so far is unverified and the opinions are inconsistent.
As for motor temps - how hot is too hot? The Bafang spec sheet shows max operating temp is 45°C (113°F). My cheap little harbor freight IR thermometer reads 128°F after a hard ride in summer. A few others using the phaserunner @2200w posted that they set the max temp cutoff to 100°C or 110°C (230°F). Anyone know what temps to avoid that would actually cause damage?
I only had the overheat error code 10 once while running it with a high gear single speed setup, but it stole my peace of mind. I just converted the bike to Nexus 3 speed which should help lighten the motor stress. Hopefully a good regreasing can overcome the heat concern and get my mindset back to reliable commuter.
During the regrease, how thoroughly do we need to clean out the factory grease? I understand it's often not a good idea to mix different greases, but I also don't want to damage anything by spraying degreaser in there. Can I just remove the reduction gear, wipe it down, then load it up with Mobilgrease 28?
I'll be sharing a YouTube video on how to repack it so any details or tips about regreasing this beast is greatly appreciated!
I bought some Mobilgrease 28 mostly because the SHC100 wasn't available at the time. I'd imagine both will work great but does anyone have technical details or comparison experience as to why one would be better for the Ultra?
Some suggest that SHC100 is better for the BBSHD because the organo-clay thickener of the 28 is not best for the nylon gear (not a concern for the Ultra?). Is the SHC100 newer, improved version? ... most of what I've read so far is unverified and the opinions are inconsistent.
As for motor temps - how hot is too hot? The Bafang spec sheet shows max operating temp is 45°C (113°F). My cheap little harbor freight IR thermometer reads 128°F after a hard ride in summer. A few others using the phaserunner @2200w posted that they set the max temp cutoff to 100°C or 110°C (230°F). Anyone know what temps to avoid that would actually cause damage?
I only had the overheat error code 10 once while running it with a high gear single speed setup, but it stole my peace of mind. I just converted the bike to Nexus 3 speed which should help lighten the motor stress. Hopefully a good regreasing can overcome the heat concern and get my mindset back to reliable commuter.
During the regrease, how thoroughly do we need to clean out the factory grease? I understand it's often not a good idea to mix different greases, but I also don't want to damage anything by spraying degreaser in there. Can I just remove the reduction gear, wipe it down, then load it up with Mobilgrease 28?
I'll be sharing a YouTube video on how to repack it so any details or tips about regreasing this beast is greatly appreciated!