BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

indeed. just ordered mine as well. Still i think in a 1-gear setup the cheap controllers are OK in combination with a throttle tamer. I'll use the Kelly in my multi-gear middrive since it is like impossible to tweak the throttle tamer best for all gears at the same time :?

At the end of the day the Kellys Price seems to be quite competitive.
 
finding the right hall combo with the Kelly was quite easy: it just works as is :D hall placing is 120°

i programmed the Kelly to "Torque mode throttle". Anyway, if I apply a little bit of throttle it wont turn to max speed :( what a flop.. seems like it's no real torque throttle either :roll: we'll see
 
I have some experience with Kelly controllers (although probably a few on this forum with more then me) and they are not a true torque throttle. They do have constant torque mode capabilities or in other words they have the capability to prevent amp multiplication at low RPMs that increases torque as the motor gets dragged down by increased load (at the same throttle setting). This prevents wasted energy at low RPMs where the motor is most inefficient and overheating abuse of the motor and can tame that high torque bottom end.

It is not however a true torque throttle where RPMs can go to full at at any throttle setting and the throttle provides variable torque. Just prevents torque multiplication on the bottom end and all that waste and motor overheating.

I do like the Kelly controllers for that reason myself but they shouldn't be confused with a true torque throttle. More accurate to say they have programmable low end torque current multiplication limiting capability.
 
does a true torque throttle exist? does anyone know if they are available, if not what can be done to get a smooth high volt/amp start. ?
 
ten.ring said:
does a true torque throttle exist? does anyone know if they are available, if not what can be done to get a smooth high volt/amp start. ?
Click to expand...

Low phase to battery amp ratio; ie 2.5:1 or lower, maybe 2:1.
This will cut your low end torque ( reduce phase multiplication ) while keeping high end torque.

I use this on all my infineon-type controllers when i am dealing with either a ridiculously high powered DD hub or a geared motor. Gives a nice linear-ish power band.
 
throttle tamer? makes a "pseodo" torque throttle out of a speed throttle :D

Low phase to battery amp ratio; ie 2.5:1 or lower, maybe 2:1.
Click to expand...
no real solution to this problem IMO. Still i do the same. 2:1 is not very low. I use less mostly. Good to keep efficiency up since high ratios lead to high power/ power loss at low speed... just a waste of battery (and Motors if they overheat)

This will cut your low end torque[..] while keeping low end torque.
Click to expand...
this does not make too much sense to me
 
Whoops... corrected. Thanks for the msg about it :p
 
thanks for the replies.
it's the twitchiness I want to avoid I want to be able to pop the front up on demand, but need it to be controllable. I'm looking for a controller that will give full power in a linear manner, like a brushed motor. that must be what most would want, so I'm assuming it is not very easy to build into a brushless controller or is it that each set-up needs to be adjusted via software.

this thread has died out, it's for the sabvoton controller. is it a no go?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=51485&start=175

I am not electronic enough to get a good idea of this controllers usefulness. lots of tech talk that does not come together for me.

I am planning on using the Kelly. (just for clarity 60v-40a controller with 20ah of lifepo4 prismatic cells) lightningrods small block, set-up with no pedals. 3speed nexus hub.

looks like the Kelly is the way to go for me.
 
Well then.

Best bet to do what you want is to probably take a Kelly and set the output motor phase end amp limits to the exact same as the battery input side amp limit. That will give you nearly constant stable torque, if that's too low to do the controlled front wheel pop up you desire on take-off then slowly up the output motor phase end amps limit while leaving the battery input side amp limit the same which in each step will increase the bottom end torque slightly and just keep upping it in increments a little at a time until you get the level of bottom end torque that gives you what you want.

On multi-gear mid-drives I tend to set the motor side output Amp limit on the Kelly controllers to the exact same as the input battery Amp limit for zero amp multiplication on the low end and thus no torque increase at all on the bottom end over the top end, constant torque set-up. A lot nicer on the bikes gear train without those hard torque spikes when shifting.

On a hub or single gear drive though I tend to set the output motor side amp limit a little higher then the input battery side amp limit for a little stronger bottom end to help make up for not having multiple gears but still don't like to set it too high because the bottom end torque can get too aggressive for my taste especially with higher powered motors where you can't just slam the throttle to full on take off and without the bike trying to jump out from underneath you and dump you on your rear. Especially since I tend to mainly use throttles as Off/On switches with just a little bit of feathering variance in-between. Heck I had one bike for a while that just had a simple on/off trigger button embedded in the bar grip without any progressive at all. It was a low power build so all you needed was on/off anyway but with a Kelly control set-up correctly I think I could now make that kind of simple on/off trigger button work even with a fairly powerful build just by using controller settings that prevented too strong of a bottom end torque multiplication.
 
turbo1889; great thank you!

that is just what I needed to know. the details are perfect!

mark
 
got mine in the mail today, came in faster than i expected... hard to turn it over by hand(phases not touching)

EDIT: I noob'd it and had false wiring combo at first. This motor wires color for color with LYEN controllers and it kicks ass
It seems to have a slight wobble to it...

I'm planning on swapping the sprocket but i have to machine it a little bit first.
IMG_2291.JPG
 
20s bench test Rshunt was not correct but its 1.6a no load WOT wired color for color
[youtube]wisRB1Q3FSY[/youtube]
 
Wow, not even an amp on no load at 82v... awesome :D
 
From what you guys can tell, would there be any issue mounting to the perimeter 4x 135mm holes on the sprocket side only and cutting off the base mount wings? obviously longer fasteners would be required but any issues other than that?

Is there any way to take off some of the sprocket stickout by machining the output shaft to make the unit more narrow? I would probably be using 420 chain unless you think otherwise. Would be on a pedalless freeride style bike.
 
1. yes, no problem. your mount sheet must be VERY stiff. I would always mount it on both sides. I would not use the 8T 420 sprocket. Just too small. Use a larger one. id say 12T is the absolute minimum for that motor and that chain.

2. yes, i'd say you can gain about 8-10mm by doing that

BTW: No load current @80.6V: 1.46A
 
I tried to download and play with the grabcad file that bhzwindtalker posted earlier in the thread and it was full of missing faces along with the scale coming in way off for some reason and I couldn't do much with it in solidworks so I used it combined with the information you all provided to remodel it the best I could. Here it is in case anyone needs it.

https://grabcad.com/library/bht-bldc-1000w-1

large.JPG


So I would like to use the motor on a freeride style bike that has plenty of torque and only needs to get to around 40kmh but get there quickly. I am not a electric motor expert by any means but I am mechanically inclined and good with design/fabrication so I would like some feedback if this motor is a good fit before I start designing a bike around it. I would like to have a range of about 25km (dirt hard pack/mostly flat trail) on it pedalless to get to work and back. What kind of voltage and battery pack would be a good fit?

I have done a fair bit of searching around on here and there isn't much info that is pertinent to a pedalless bike using such low gearing and freeride style that answers my questions.

Thanks for any and all input anyone can give.
 
Thanks for the new 3d Sandfast!

Btw I tested the motor on my bike, but no CA wired yet :cry:
All I can say is that the control is very smooth and the motor is well paired to the kelly we talked about. the torque is huge and with a 13-60 reduction in 18s I get to 40mph with a lot of startup torque. However my initial testing show that the motor gets really hot, and fast, with a notable decrase in performance. Remember this is doing power pulls and constant acceleration/braking but... watercooling it migth be a good option :wink:
 
I'm building two new aluminium frames ATM and noticed them direct on ebay yesterday. I'm wondering if a bolt up direct to an aluminium chassis might shed enough heat. It is a small casing to dump all that heat into, it would saturate pretty fast.

The side covers look pretty thin - maybe some larger plates that extend out as a heatsink?
 
nope it is a radial motor. heat shall be shed radially. so you need better air cooling or watercooling as windtalker suggested

what you describe is only wise for radial motors that are thin...like the converted bafang or MAC hubs. They are outrunners. Thin outrunners can be cooled as they were axial flux motors...axially on their sides. but that does not work with inrunners at all
 
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