Bikeon, "cassette drive" torque sensing motor

[spaceman]

One of my bikes has a 11-40 cassette. The sprocket next to the 40T is 36T. Can I install the kit on the 36T?

Yes, you can.

 

[spaceman]

Today i can buy a 7lbs premium hub motor kit for ~$700

I understand your point. Once we are on track and into mass production, BikeOn will cost even less than $700. But we have to start somewhere. We are working hard to get there as soon as possible. Meanwhile, we appreciate our early users who put their trust and money in us, and we are doing everything to not disappoint them.

 

[gromike]

That sure would be a fun motor to have, as I have several bikes that I would want to try riding motorized.
I guess we need some real world experience of this motor in use.

 

[PaulD]

It looks like there isn't a freewheel in the system to prevent the chain from over-driving the pedals. So, if you stop pedaling suddenly, is the motor and gearbox inertia going to throw your chain off the chainring or break the derailleur?
Also, does that torque sensing device work in all gears? Looks like it relies on sensing chain tension near the cassette.
Otherwise an interesting idea. Kind of like a Bimotal motor for the driveside.
Looks like a very small fully enclosed outrunner? I wonder about the thermal performance.

 

[neptronix]

I understand your point. Once we are on track and into mass production, BikeOn will cost even less than $700. But we have to start somewhere. We are working hard to get there as soon as possible. Meanwhile, we appreciate our early users who put their trust and money in us, and we are doing everything to not disappoint them.

Very cool to hear the price can go down. If you can get down to the $700 range then you are making your competition nervous and you can strike the price part off my list.

 

[spaceman]

It looks like there isn't a freewheel in the system to prevent the chain from over-driving the pedals. So, if you stop pedaling suddenly, is the motor and gearbox inertia going to throw your chain off the chainring or break the derailleur?

No, the motor and sensors monitor changes in chain tension, and the motor stops operation as soon as you stop pedaling. Additionally, if you begin to backpedal, the motor detects this action and assists by rotating the cassette in reverse. This provides a riding experience that is very close that of a regular bicycle in terms of pedal dynamics.

Also, does that torque sensing device work in all gears? Looks like it relies on sensing chain tension near the cassette.

Yes, it does work in all gears.

Looks like a very small fully enclosed outrunner? I wonder about the thermal performance.

It is an enclosed outrunner, made to our specs. It has a thermal path to dissipate the heat and overall the thermal performance is very good.

 

[rivers]

No, the motor and sensors monitor changes in chain tension, and the motor stops operation as soon as you stop pedaling. Additionally, if you begin to backpedal, the motor detects this action and assists by rotating the cassette in reverse.

Does the system have a cadence sensor and if so, is it bi-directional to detect forward vs reverse pedaling rotation?

 

[raylo32]

This is a very cool gadget. Are you planning to sell a version without the battery for customers who already have them? And by your post below I assume this won't work with 52v batteries? That's all I have.

I also hate the phone requirement for full power. Not that I object to using an app for updating firmware and such, but don't want or need to have a phone attached to my bike when I am riding. What a PITA. Why not include a SW102 display or somesuch to provide an offline speedometer function?

Yes. The working range is 36V to 48V.

 

[rivers]

Can I ride the bike without power as a normal bike or does the kit have to come off to do so?

I would think that a freewheel in the motor would be needed to allow unassisted pedaling, but it seems there is no freewheel because the motor runs in reverse sometimes, correct?

 

[rivers]

Also, with the power off can the bike be rolled backwards without undue effort?

 

[2old]

Since it's pedal assist only, why can't you set it up for 28 mph since most states use the "Class" system which has a designation for PAS @ 28 mph. You could just make the buyer sign for road application only. Did you consider a crowd fund to provide enough orders for a lower price?

 

[docw009]

Very innovative. My congratulations. Is there more than one prototype running? I think the market is the high end road biker, who is getting too old to keep up, They might spend $1200 to keep their favorite bike that fits them on the road. Keep making it simpler and easier to install. Make it default for a class 3. Lose the Apps.

By the way, I know patents are expensive for a start-up, but I hope you've made the applications. There's a hundreds of people in China with CNC machines sitting around doing nothing that will quickly have copies.

 

[docw009]

Additional thought, Why don't don't you make a version with a cassette ring that owners can fit in place on their existing cassette, Should make it less complicated and lighter, and you could still make the motor removeable, People that use freewheels, forget them. That's me.

 

[spaceman]

Are you planning to sell a version without the battery for customers who already have them?

We do offer the device without battery as well.

And by your post below I assume this won't work with 52v batteries?

All electronic components are rated above that voltage and should work, but I never tested any other batteries except 36V and 48V. And that is the only reason we do not recommend any other battery voltage at the moment. Later we may expand the battery voltage range.

I also hate the phone requirement for full power. Not that I object to using an app for updating firmware and such, but don't want or need to have a phone attached to my bike when I am riding.

We will offer more options later, we do have some ideas, but it will take some time to get there.

 

[spaceman]

Can I ride the bike without power as a normal bike or does the kit have to come off to do so?

You can if you want to charge the battery, it will add some resistance. Otherwise you can remove the device (10 second task), toss it into your backpack and use your bike as a normal bike.

I would think that a freewheel in the motor would be needed to allow unassisted pedaling, but it seems there is no freewheel because the motor runs in reverse sometimes, correct?

Correct.

Also, with the power off can the bike be rolled backwards without undue effort?

Yes, that is no problem at all.

 

[spaceman]

Since it's pedal assist only, why can't you set it up for 28 mph since most states use the "Class" system which has a designation for PAS @ 28 mph.

For class 3 you have to have a speedometer (your phone with BikeOn Connect app running).

Did you consider a crowd fund to provide enough orders for a lower price?

That might be a viable option to fund larger batches, we may consider it a bit later.

 

[spaceman]

Does the system have a cadence sensor and if so, is it bi-directional to detect forward vs reverse pedaling rotation?

The device monitors motor speed and chain tension for reverse pedaling operation mode. It also has a separate controller in the firmware, which takes care of it.

 

[spaceman]

Is there more than one prototype running?

We are beyond the prototyping stage and are currently shipping the device to customers.

Keep making it simpler and easier to install.

We improve the product constantly, which is one of the reasons we invested so much in the over-the-air firmware update mechanism.

By the way, I know patents are expensive for a start-up, but I hope you've made the applications.

We have multiple issued patents in China, the EU, the US, and other countries.

There's a hundreds of people in China with CNC machines sitting around doing nothing that will quickly have copies.

It is a hard product to copy, I think. Everything is important here: the firmware logic, the software, the mechanical design, the choice of materials and finishes, and much more. One wrong piece in this chain and it stops working properly. There are also what's called "trade secrets," which we developed over all these years of working on this device.

 

[raylo32]

Is it possible to make a smaller wheel setting (say 20" on a bike that has 29" wheels) to spoof the speed limit so you can ride over 20MPH actual without the phone being connected in real time?

 

[rivers]

What is your normal battery connector? No reason it could not be replaced with a XT60, correct?

 

[spaceman]

Is it possible to make a smaller wheel setting (say 20" on a bike that has 29" wheels) to spoof the speed limit so you can ride over 20MPH actual without the phone being connected in real time?

The device relies on your choice of wheel diameter in the settings to correctly calculate the speed. I can’t force anyone, but I do strongly recommend following the regulations.

 

[spaceman]

What is your normal battery connector? No reason it could not be replaced with a XT60, correct?

The device and the battery already utilize XT60 connector, so there is no need to replace anything.

 

[spaceman]

Very innovative. My congratulations.

Thank you. We've come a long way.

 

[Chalo]

It is a hard product to copy, I think. Everything is important here: the firmware logic, the software, the mechanical design, the choice of materials and finishes, and much more. One wrong piece in this chain and it stops working properly.

Ah, so it's a time release can of worms. See also "boondoggle". Best of luck with that; there is no shortage of indiscriminate consumers.

 

[neptronix]

Ah, so it's a time release can of worms. See also "boondoggle". Best of luck with that; there is no shortage of indiscriminate consumers.

Pretty harsh judgement considering we collectively have zero experience with this drive short term and long term.