BMSBattery 12 MOSFET 500 Watt Controller

[full-throttle]

No worries!

I do own the lsdzs 12-mosfet sensorless:

Do not have a photo of internals and too lazy to undo all the tape that holds it to the bike right now.

Wonder how the two would compare.. Perhaps in another thread though.

 

[Hyena]

Hey guys,
I just had a 72v 12 fet delivered from BMS battery. It's also rated at 500w so current is 12a. Like that's gonna stick! :lol:
Mine was well packaged and arrived with no damage. It's smaller than I was expecting for a 12 fet, the below pic is with a BM6 lipo monitor for size comparison.
I haven't powered it up yet as my old bike is in pieces and this controller is for a new one, but here's some pics of the guts.

Mine doesn't have the same sticker the earlier ones did, although there's a sticky patch on the top where one has been removed. Theres a sticker on the back but everything is in chinese.

It seems to be a different board to the 48v 500w 12 fet controllers.

The caps are rated to 100v as you'd expect but sadly the fets are P75NF75 and only rated to 75v. I'm not sure how long this will last considering most nominal 72v packs come off the charge at >80v. I plan to run it on 18S lipo which will be dead on the 75v rating. Hopefully the quick sag to 73v and less will stop them blowing straight away. If they do, in with 4110s.

It only has one shunt, the second one seems to have been cut out. I'll solder some 12ga wire in there and see what difference it makes. 35-45a would be nice but that might tax the fets too much. If I dont get 30a I'll keep soldering!

The board looks like it may have a few other features that could be used by soldering wires to a few of these points. Anyone know what they might be ?

edit: forgot an underside pic

 

[tifalou]

Hi, I have tested the 12 mosfet controller with my Puma motor. It can only reach 15 mph on no load, whereas it does 27 with its standard controller. Do you think that the 12 mosfet controller has a feature that limits the current in order to comply with the european speed limit ? If so, how can I release it ?
Another question : The two white wires have connections made for being connected together, so I did it. It made the wheel spin at about 10 mph, whenever the throttle is off. So what is their real use ?
Thank you.

 

[Russell]

Hi, I have tested the 12 mosfet controller with my Puma motor. It can only reach 15 mph on no load, whereas it does 27 with its standard controller. Do you think that the 12 mosfet controller has a feature that limits the current in order to comply with the european speed limit ? If so, how can I release it ?
Another question : The two white wires have connections made for being connected together, so I did it. It made the wheel spin at about 10 mph, whenever the throttle is off. So what is their real use ?
Thank you.

Connecting the white wires puts the controller into a program mode where it tries the different phase wire combinations. With your freewheeling motor 3 of the combinations it tries will rotate the motor forward and 3 combinations will spin the motor backwards which you'll hear but due to the freewheeel the bike wheel will not actually rotate. When the wheel is spinning forward nice and smooth simply disconnect the white wires and leave them disconnected, you won't need them again.

I have a 9-FET version of this controller and know of no limiter. You should contact ecitypower/bmsbattery directly and ask them about it. Do make sure the hall sensor wires are connected properly. With this controller you can try running without the hall sensors connected and if it spins faster sensorless then that likely means you have the hall wires mis-matched and need to find the right combination.

-R

 

[Hyena]

Mine seems to have different wiring to the earlier ones - there's no white wires on mine but there is a brown one that's connected the same. I tried unplugging it and it made no difference so I've left it connected for now. I also have a single purple and a single white with green tracer that I don't know the function of. There's also a black + orange w/green tracer but I've worked out by shorting that it's the brakes. I'm not sure if it's regen or just plug braking as my watt meter doesn't measure current going backwards. The automatic cruise doesn't seem to work either. Maybe that's the purpose of the joined brown wire ?

 

[pgt400]

I bought one of these from ecitypower/ebay. Amazed at what you get for $25. Works smooth as silk with a Golden 500 48v in sensorless mode. I can't understand why most Chinese manufactures don't supply any doc's! All the work they put into to design and build....you know they HAVE to know the features and wiring....they just choose not to supply it.

 

[dwkennedy]

Mine seems to have different wiring to the earlier ones - there's no white wires on mine but there is a brown one that's connected the same. I tried unplugging it and it made no difference so I've left it connected for now. I also have a single purple and a single white with green tracer that I don't know the function of. There's also a black + orange w/green tracer but I've worked out by shorting that it's the brakes. I'm not sure if it's regen or just plug braking as my watt meter doesn't measure current going backwards. The automatic cruise doesn't seem to work either. Maybe that's the purpose of the joined brown wire ?

The brown wire is for enabling/disabling EABS. With it attached the motor stops very quickly, without it rolls to a stop.

Haven't figured out the mystery wires and/or cruise control.

I'm going to get some help translating the label, that may help.

 

[Russell]

The wires are identified in the first post.

The grey loop is the auto cruise control, when it is cut it is disabled, when a momentary switch is added you can turn on cruise with a push of the button instead of waiting 8 seconds for auto-cruise to start.

Info on the controllers can also be found here;

http://www.ecitypower.com/index.php?option=com_weblinks&view=category&id=19:ccd&Itemid=93

I also cover the hook-up and function of the otherwise identical 9-FET version here;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13659&start=0

-R

 

[dwkennedy]

The wires are identified in the first post.

The grey loop is the auto cruise control, when it is cut it is disabled, when a momentary switch is added you can turn on cruise with a push of the button instead of waiting 8 seconds for auto-cruise to start.

Info on the controllers can also be found here;

http://www.ecitypower.com/index.php?option=com_weblinks&view=category&id=19:ccd&Itemid=93

I also cover the hook-up and function of the otherwise identical 9-FET version here;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13659&start=0

-R

It seems they are selling a new version now, from what I can tell it doesn't have any cruise and there is no grey loop to cut.

However, on the ecitypower link you provided (THANKS!), there is a very good translation of the present unit's label. The unit I received is the one shown in the "New 9/12 Mosfet Intelligent Brushless Motor Controllor Wire Connection Diagram" or as my personal translator chicky snack calls it, "Fully Wisdom Capability Brushless Controller" :wink:

The controller does seem to work pretty good, no clunking on start-up with or without the hall sensors connected (I am using a Cute 100 motor)

My only problem now is that the hub winding I ordered won't go as fast as I had wanted. Maybe I can make it into a powered trailer wheel instead. Alternately, I could get the speed I desire by building the world's first e-bike high wheeler! If only I could find a source for 1000mm spokes... and someone dumb/brave enough to test drive it...

 

[Russell]

No more cruise control...drat, that's the best feature

-R

 

[Hyena]

Yeah my one I posted about a few months back seems to be this newer version with no cruise.
I ordered one of their new 15 fet controllers to try over a month ago and it still hasn't shipped yet

 

[dwkennedy]

Yeah, Sagz and I ordered well before Chinese new year and didn't get shipped until after reminding them after the holiday. Apparently the lady handling our order didn't work there any more...

I tried to visit www.bmsbattery.com to check out the new 15 doo-dad controller you mentioned, but I'm getting misconfigured looking web server pages. Ecitypower is still there, so probably just a web hiccup (hopefully they haven't folded!)

 

[Hyena]

Nah I emailed them the other day, they said they're upgrading the website and it'll be back up soon.
My first order with them arrived in 3 days but this one has been over a month with no holidays or other reasonable excuses other than them apparently listing stuff they don't have stock of. When I emailed saying I hadn't received the order and asked if it had been shipped I got the reply "take it easy, the order is still being processed"
Well of course it is, why wouldn't it be when I've payed over $100 for express shipping :|

 

[tifalou]

I've got a 350W and a 500W controllers from bmsbattery and here are my observations :
- They can work sensorless with my Puma and my GM (I fried some hall sensors) despite some vibrations and noise at startup.
- I drained one battery, because neither the bms nor the controller cut off. Need to keep an eye on the wattmeter ;
- no mean to connect my double-wired brakes with cut-off sensor.
- While Ecitypower told a customer on ebay that the controller has no speed limit, both mine seem to have a speed limit :
when I reach 20 mph, the power suddenly falls from about 700W to 300W, and then rise again when the speed has decreased. It can not be a current limit, because on hills it can reach 1100W on 36V.
I don't think that I can improve this, so now I guess I have to look for a better choice. Any idea of a good 36-48V 30A universal controller ?

 

[Russell]

I've got a 350W and a 500W controllers from bmsbattery and here are my observations :
- They can work sensorless with my Puma and my GM (I fried some hall sensors) despite some vibrations and noise at startup.
- I drained one battery, because neither the bms nor the controller cut off. Need to keep an eye on the wattmeter ;
- no mean to connect my double-wired brakes with cut-off sensor.
- While Ecitypower told a customer on ebay that the controller has no speed limit, both mine seem to have a speed limit :
when I reach 20 mph, the power suddenly falls from about 700W to 300W, and then rise again when the speed has decreased. It can not be a current limit, because on hills it can reach 1100W on 36V.
I don't think that I can improve this, so now I guess I have to look for a better choice. Any idea of a good 36-48V 30A universal controller ?

My 350W universal controller from ecitypower has no "speed limit" and I suspect neither does yours. What you are seeing with the power falling off is most likely simply the natural output curve of the motor. Take a look at the curves for your motor at http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/ and note how power peaks and then falls as speed increases until at the no-load speed power is zero. If you want more speed from your motor you'll need more voltage.

On the topic of an LVC the controller I have appears to have a sort of variable cut-off voltage instead of a fixed value. I've only tested this once with a 36V pack since I never take my 48V pack down low enough to trigger the LVC. On mine the controller's LVC circuit first kicked in at about 30V however it then allowed the voltage to dip to 26V at which point it pretty much limited current all of the time.


-R

 

[tifalou]

You seem to be right Russell, the curves fall suddenly above 20 mph. I knew that, but with other controllers, when the speed reaches its peak, power and speed stay constant, so the ride is always smooth.
In the present case, when the power falls, you can't sustain your speed, it falls, then the power comes back until 20 mph, then cut again, and so on... unless you keep it just under the limit. Not comfy.
I'd appreciate to find a smoother sensorless controller, which would also have 2 wires for the brakes.

 

[Russell]

You seem to be right Russell, the curves fall suddenly above 20 mph. I knew that, but with other controllers, when the speed reaches its peak, power and speed stay constant, so the ride is always smooth.
In the present case, when the power falls, you can't sustain your speed, it falls, then the power comes back until 20 mph, then cut again, and so on... unless you keep it just under the limit. Not comfy.
I'd appreciate to find a smoother sensorless controller, which would also have 2 wires for the brakes.

I've never noticed a sudden decrease in power with any controller but rather it gets harder to pedal as my speed increases and the motor output falls. For example my Bafang and ecitypower controller (which I run sensorless) has a no-load speed of 27.5 mph at 51.0V on my 15S LiFePO4 pack which then translates into a 21.5-22.0 mph top speed on the flats with no wind. At that speed the motor output is already past its power peak and heading down. Here are the curves for a 26"/700C eZee at 87% which I believe comes close to my Bafang's output characteristics.



My favorite bike power calculator ( http://www.noping.net/english/ ) says I need 357W to hit 22.0 mph which is almost exactly where the power curve above ends up. As I pedal to go faster the motor output continues to fall. The calculator says 450W is needed for me to reach 24.0 mph and 505W to hit an even 25.0 mph. At those speeds the motor is contributing roughly 250W and 175W, respectively, meaning I have to contribute about 200W and 330W. The 200W I can do for perhaps a couple of miles but I can't sustain 330W for very long at all. Out on the road then unless I'm heading downhill or have a tailwind speeds above 24 mph are tough.

If you are seeing a very quick drop in power then there's something else happening with your combination I'm not familiar with but if your experiences are the same as I describe above then it sounds like everything is normal.

I don't care for the single "high" wire brake implementation on the controller either but then I don't use the function. If you are looking for a basic controller that works well with geared motors then the 22A model from E-BikeKit is a good choice. Shenzhen controllers from Ecrazyman on eBay (E-S member Keywin) or from HolmesHobbies (E-S member Johnrobholmes) are another way to go. E-S member Lyen also offers high performance controllers at a good price.

-R

 

[pgt400]

Anybody ever try swapping the FETS with the newer 4 mohm units? I've been running one for over 6 months without trouble. I'm running sensorless and do get the occassional stumble under acceleration.

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

I just installed my BMS battery 12 mosfet controller on a 2805 Nine Continent motor from ebikes.ca, on a Raleigh 20 folder, and I was rather impressed with the speed and power, so I don't think that mine (the newer version of the controller) is speed limited. I was able to maintain around 27 mph on my folder, which was possibly the fastest combination of motor/controller on any of my bikes so far, almost scary fast for this little bike with no suspension. I am running it sensorless, and the motor kicks in from zero movement. It is just a bit smoother to start off with the very slightest of forward movement first. There is very little "cogging" compared to my Crystalyte 405 with the 36V/20 amp sensorless. This is a nice combination. I'm only using the phase wires, no Halls. This is a pretty simple setup, I didn't use most of the other wires on the controller for PAS or ebrakes etc. I think these are good controllers for the money - not sure how to connect a CycleAnalyst though.

 

[fechter]

Nice to finally see a sensorless controller that kinda works. Upgrading the FETs should be fairly straightforward.

 

[DISH]

Inside the '-NEW-' BMSBattery 12 MOSFET 500 Watt Controller
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20176

 

[DISH]

Inside the '-NEW-' BMSBattery 12 MOSFET 500 Watt Controller
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20176

I am having a problem with my posts being entered twice. I only enter the post once and click on submit ONCE but it SOMETIMES gets entered twice. Notice the time stamps are the same on both messages...

Sorry for making a mess of things but I really don't know how to prevent this....

It's one of the reasons I haven't been on here for quite some time. I was hoping the problem would go away but obviously it's still here.

 

[mwkeefer]

http://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AOT430.pdf

 

[DISH]

WOW! Thanks for the datasheet. I mistook T430 for the date code but now realize it's the device number.

Rather than cross post I will do my best to post any further comments relating to "Inside the '-NEW-' BMSBattery 12 MOSFET 500 Watt Controller" at

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20176

and only post any applicable comments here that relate to the older version...