Brushless dual 6kw ALIEN Power system - electric longboard

LED lighting kits now available-get them while stocks last!!!
http://www.aliendrivesystems.com/led-lighting-kitnew.html


0807ff56831bf3bfa41824626e59e4bd_zpsbe02c083.jpg
 
beetbocks said:
rf said:
beetbocks said:
Great stuff Jacob..
Just a quick update on the Caliber mounts..I was just about to get a batch manufactured when i realised that not all the existing Alien brackets will fit the caliber mount. So i have to redesign the bracket and prove the design..so hopefully in the next couple of weeks..sorry for the delay but it will be better for everyone in the long run
Click to expand...

Cool.

Not sure if this applies to the Caliber mounts. But on the Holey mounts, if it were possible to insert the four bolts in the opposite direction (heads facing in), you could adjust the drive belt without removing the wheel -- and with the belt actually on. Just a thought.

Richard
Click to expand...
the problem would then be applying pressure with the belt on..as it is now you can roll the belt on the wheel with sufficient force.. the other option i was considering was a bolt in the back of the mount and screw this in to tighten..?
Click to expand...

The 'bolt in the back of the mount' approach does sound better. It would let you fine-tune the belt tension more easily, and perhaps add an effective locking capability too.

Belts don't take kindly to being rolled on and off. That tends to either stretch or break internal fibers or over-stress mounts and shafts. Belts aren't meant to be twisted out of their normal plane of travel.
 
Anyone think of using any of the other ESC's? Just curious about whether any of the airplane or heli ESCs would work or if you forsee any problems with that. Maybe even a boat ESC like the seaking (although that seems to be water cooled).

Great stuff on this forum. Thinking of building me one.

Justin
 
jfeola said:
Anyone think of using any of the other ESC's? Just curious about whether any of the airplane or heli ESCs would work or if you forsee any problems with that. Maybe even a boat ESC like the seaking (although that seems to be water cooled).

Great stuff on this forum. Thinking of building me one.

Justin
Click to expand...

You should. The car ESCs are better for braking. I've made my board and enjoy it.
 
Hi all,
I've got a question about dual esc or two esc.
What is the difference between a dual esc alien power like and two esc, one for each motor, linked with a Y cable to RT and battery?
 
jfeola said:
Anyone think of using any of the other ESC's? Just curious about whether any of the airplane or heli ESCs would work or if you forsee any problems with that. Maybe even a boat ESC like the seaking (although that seems to be water cooled).

Great stuff on this forum. Thinking of building me one.

Justin
Click to expand...
I have a couple different plane ESCs that were quite cheap. A Mystery CLOUD-200a I got on Ebay for $36. Supposedly capable of 200 amps with 6S Lipo. And an HK SS-90/100 (Hobbyking.com, $25), that's spec'd at 100 amps with 7S Lipo. They work okay, but the brakes are not-so-good. Airplane ESC brakes are very simple -- designed to stop the prop abruptly. And send a skateboard rider flying off the front in a hurry.

My EZRUN Pro 150 amp car ESC (from Valuehobby.com, $85) is much more programmable, and has more civilized brakes. It also has a slower acceleration mode that makes starting the skateboard rolling much more civilized too. The board still has a tendency to take off without you, but once you learn to squeeze the trigger carefully things become more reasonable.

The only substantial difference between these units is the software. They're each just a collection of high power MOSFET transistors controlled by a small, fast, microprocessor. The software makes it all work, gives them their features.

There are several groups on the Net that have reverse-engineered and written their own software for these things. When I have more time I hope to make my two airplane ESCs acceptable for skateboard use -- complete with good, adjustable brakes and a smooth, gentle accelerator. The price is much better and the ability to re-program them is a huge win. Many other things become possible once you gain the ability to re-program your ESC.

In the mean time, car-style ESCs are kind of necessary for decent skateboard control. Unless you have a different form of braking, mechanical etc., -- which I'm also looking into.
 
rf said:
The only substantial difference between these units is the software. They're each just a collection of high power MOSFET transistors controlled by a small, fast, microprocessor. The software makes it all work, gives them their features.
Click to expand...

As you say they are only designed to stop a prop spinning abruptly. This change in the mechanics for car or skateboard braking requires more than a just a change in software but a way to deal with all the extra energy that needs to be dissipated when braking a large mass for a longer period of time - It's more than just a software issue. Car ESCs typically have more heatsinking and often active cooling (a fan) to deal with heat generated when dumping energy during the longer braking process. Plane ESCs (when reprogrammed) generally go pop on long braking if they aren't modified. You can't escape the first law of thermodynamics :)
 
simonjook said:
rf said:
The only substantial difference between these units is the software. They're each just a collection of high power MOSFET transistors controlled by a small, fast, microprocessor. The software makes it all work, gives them their features.
Click to expand...

As you say they are only designed to stop a prop spinning abruptly. This change in the mechanics for car or skateboard braking requires more than a just a change in software but a way to deal with all the extra energy that needs to be dissipated when braking a large mass for a longer period of time - It's more than just a software issue. Car ESCs typically have more heatsinking and often active cooling (a fan) to deal with heat generated when dumping energy during the longer braking process. Plane ESCs (when reprogrammed) generally go pop on long braking if they aren't modified. You can't escape the first law of thermodynamics :)
Click to expand...

That's not been my experience.

I've instrumented my EZRUN Pro 150 amp car ESC. Braking takes less current than climbing hills on my board. And since the maximum peak current I've recorded is around 50 amps, it's just not an issue. Peak current on a typical ride is usually much less that that. I'm planning to remove the fan from the EZRUN, as others have done, simply because it's not needed. It currently never even gets warm.

Given appropriate firmware, the Mystery CLOUD-200a airplane ESC will be total overkill for skateboarding at $36.
 
You're not going to draw current braking ... you're motor is generating current and some of it is being used to generated back force to slow you down and some gets burned off. My ESC also doesn't get hot because it has a fan and a big heatsink but after 5 mins descending a steep hill it does get warm (warm than climbing it) and it has once had a freakout from doing it. On the other hand my heli friend has popped to aero ESCs both rated 200A, one of them very expensive. So although the sample is limited, it's holding true so far.

Brushless motors and ESCs do braking much better than brushed systems that had to blow off lots more energy as heat but riding a skateboard downhill is very demanding on brakes and will push the ESCs, software and motors in a many ways they were not readily designed for ... it does produce heat and the cooling may be overkill on a car ESC but I like the safety margin. Maybe it's just the homebrew software is really rubbish at braking in the way we need it but something is definitely killing off ESCs.

It could also be that insufficient effort is put into getting a good thermal mating on the plane ESCs because they dont need it much where the car ESC has overall better thermal design. Perhaps someone who has pulled a few apart can comment. I've only opened heli ones so far to find popped FETs
 
Hi,
why not add this kind of brake system ?
http://www.longboardshop.de/shop/product_info.php?cPath=62_213&products_id=2158

It willsave ot lot of electrical energy , ESC heat , belt breaking or so .... I've got one of this Pogo brake and I sometime use it to film our longskate DH crew, then it's easy to control speed without thinking of your hands , and you may focus on other riders : it works very well ! With motor(s) installed at the rear , and battery a little forward, it could be possible ?
 
This option should work if could be adapted to an electric skateboard.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1130221580/disc-brakes-for-longboard-skateboards
 
old man said:
Hi,
why not add this kind of brake system ?
http://www.longboardshop.de/shop/product_info.php?cPath=62_213&products_id=2158

It willsave ot lot of electrical energy , ESC heat , belt breaking or so .... I've got one of this Pogo brake and I sometime use it to film our longskate DH crew, then it's easy to control speed without thinking of your hands , and you may focus on other riders : it works very well ! With motor(s) installed at the rear , and battery a little forward, it could be possible ?
Click to expand...

I like this: cheap, simple, replacable and most of all... DIY!
 
One of the cable-controlled braking systems could probably be integrated into our existing remote controls through a second channel and a powerful servo.
 
torqueboards said:
How would you implement the brakeboard with regular trucks? Pogo is cool but wish it was much smaller.
Click to expand...
I've been biting my tongue, but Pogo is so not cool. It's almost childish. Do I get a cartoon boat anchor to throw out too? Using the widely varying road surface as the friction component for your brakes is just plain wrong!

Brakeboard does require it's own special trucks. One of the reasons many folks don't support it. Something like beetbocks wheel-mounted pulley would be much better as a way of mounting brakes. More later ...
 
One of my prime reasons for making and electric board was to have braking and more importantly for me a brake that I can lock and flat spot wheels nor a brake that has too much grab if I misjudge and hurl me into the pavement. The anti lock nature of using an electric motor to brake is awesome and although others may have different desires, I can't see why you'd bother with the extra expense and complexity of braking beyond what the motor/ESC provides.
 
Would be nice if we can implement something with the electric boards. I plan on making a 4WD longboard with maybe 50mm motors. Mainly for the braking benefits is why I would prefer 4WD. Definitely, not for speed maybe torque up hills. 1 motor is definitely more than enough and still don't reach full throttle. I basically want better brakes and to stress each motor out less with the braking.
 
I think one motor is sufficient for powering the board. Mechanical brakes on the two front wheels seem like a good choice for descending hills safely. The simplicity and reliability afforded seem likely to easily surpass motor-driven braking in almost every way.

I am a little put off by the current cost of mechanical brakes. And by the need to mix trucks.
 
rf said:
I think one motor is sufficient for powering the board. Mechanical brakes on the two front wheels seem like a good choice for descending hills safely. The simplicity and reliability afforded seem likely to easily surpass motor-driven braking in almost every way.

I am a little put off by the current cost of mechanical brakes. And by the need to mix trucks.
Click to expand...
I agree, it's all too expensive... That's why I like the pogo brake. Experienced skaters might think it's not done, but I don't care about this if I can prolong the life of my components.
 
rf said:
I think one motor is sufficient for powering the board. Mechanical brakes on the two front wheels seem like a good choice for descending hills safely. The simplicity and reliability afforded seem likely to easily surpass motor-driven braking in almost every way.

I am a little put off by the current cost of mechanical brakes. And by the need to mix trucks.
Click to expand...

You don't want brakes on the front because unless they are perfectly balanced because you will get brake steer and it will be destabilising. I also suspect if you try to carve with front brakes you might also find it's less stable too. Rear brakes are less effective and more likely to skid but won't destabilise you as much through brake steer because they are trailing.
 
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