TylerDurden
100 GW
bobc said:worked it out
Good on ya, Bob. :wink:
bobc said:worked it out
The American Association of Physics Teachers (AAPT) and the American Institute of Physics (AIP) are mainstream physics organizations with thousands of members from the field of physics. So I'm not sure what you mean by "small core".doctorGONZO said:small core of "believers"
As the solution by AAPT & AIP shows, it is perfectly consistent with Newtonian Physics:doctorGONZO said:...desperately try to prove that Newtonian Physics is totally and grossly inaccurate.
"At rest relative to the wind" is gibberish. It can be at rest relative to the ground, or at rest relative to the airmass. But it can never be at rest relative relative to both, as long as there is true wind.doctorGONZO said:while the car is at rest relative to the wind.
Yes, and you can draw energy from this as well:doctorGONZO said:Wind shear simply means that two adjacent bodies of air have different velocities.
The cart doesn't use the velocity difference between two air masses, but between air and ground.doctorGONZO said:"HOW is the wind shear energy supposed to get from the relatively stationary wind air to push the car"
liveforphysics said:Looks like you just joined the "people who get it" club BobC.
Welcome. It's nice here.
Gonzo is only fooling himself or trolling at this point. I refuse to believe God made a human brain so stubborn about insisting to stay so wrong for so long.
Unless Gonzo is Safe. Lol. Safe has mastered and perfected the art remaining wrong in the face of right.
It's rather something that follows directly from Newtonian Physics, as the AAPT solution posted above shows. Did you read the AAPT solution?doctorGONZO said:...a pack of lies that violate practically all of Newtonian Physics.
That doesn't violate Newtonian Physics. The paper strip transfers momentum to the spool, that is outrunning it:doctorGONZO said:...to allow for the transmission of momentum from a body to another body that is outrunning it?
bobc said:Somebody should make a boat that does this - it would need a screw prop in the water + a big prop in place of a sail.
Wonder if we'll ever see that in the americas cup......
Frank said:I think he is hung-up on the assumption that acceleration is occurring due to a transfer of momentum.
liveforphysics said:You are aware that none of Newtonian physics is the best fit model of reality I assume? Not that this actually has any conflicts with it anyways.
If you wish to see mathematical representations of it's function they have been painstakingly listed in the previous posts by many folks. I noticed you seem to be immune to formula of all types and representations of this model, including BobC's very simple math-based example explanation demonstrating how the effect can work above.
You are also evidently immune to the philosophical proof. I can divide it into 2 phases showing proof of concept for you without needing any belief in math, only a basic awareness of an enthalpy concept.
1. Regardless of what, where or how you are traveling, what color the vehicle is, who is driving inside and how fast and what direction they are going etc etc, there is an energy gradient with harvestable energy when you have the relative speed difference between the wind and the moving surface of the ground.
2.You have equal capabilities to harvest from this wind/ground energy difference (and reducing wind energy is where your energy source came from, same as a racing sailboat tacking at way over relative wind-speed) as seen from a point of reference relative to the wind (how this device works), or fixed ground reference, and wind moving by in relation to you. (like a normal wind-turbine setup).
3. If you apply some amount of this harvested energy to a system in a consistent thrust vector, it will continue to accelerate to whatever speed it requires to have parasitic drag forces reach equilibrium with the quantity of continuously harvested thrust energy being applied to the system.
If a boat sailing boat with a ton of water hull drag can continuously harvest energy from the wind/ground speed difference to travel at higher speeds than the wind (though while tacking at an angle), it is only a matter of creating the mechanism to enable changing the vector the thrust is captured and redirected upon to make it any different than the sailing boat tacking example (and to gain the ability to travel directly down-wind as a bit of a parlor trick modification to the same concept).
Harvest energy because there is always energy available to be harvested when you have access to interface with a difference in speeds of things (tire on the ground, the wind on the vehicle are both of the interfaces used by this vehicle. Re-direct harvested energy through a simple mechanical drive system to increase speed of vehicle. Note, this doesn't make a feedback loop of any kind, because you didn't increase the difference of speeds between the earth and the ground, which is the source of your energy. You have whatever you're able to harvest from the wind/ground speed difference only, and you can apply this towards moving the vehicle faster up until the point the drag on the vehicle is providing an equal energy consumption to the rate of energy you're absorbing. It merely requires changing the ratios of the mechanism's drive between wheels and prop power demand.
The downwind car is ultimately no different in principal than the upwind car (which I do believe you acknowledge is real?), except this mechanism is setup to harvest from the ground and apply to the prop rather than visa-versa, but it's the same concept.
If you don't believe it violates Newtonian physics for the upwind car which is merely flip-flopped with respect to energy harvest/expend mechanisms from the downwind car, you can not make a logical argument that the downwind car is in violation of any form of Newtonian based physics.
As a totally unrelated side note, All of Newtonian based physics is incorrect and violates itself without any help from the moment Relativity was tested to be a more accurate model of how the universe functions. Now modern quantum mechanics has shown relativity can not be correct, due to what Einstein coined "spooky action at a distance" (quantum entanglement and it's seemingly infinitely higher than C rate of state transfer that has been documented even in diamond chips, not just quantum particles).
Do you have any remaining unclear points about the function of this vehicle?
It is only astonishing to those who do not understand Newtonian Physics:doctorGONZO said:Perhaps the gizmo does work within Newtonian Physics and provide an astonishing result...
There is nothing in Newtonian Physics that forbids momentum transfer from a body to a machine outrunning it.doctorGONZO said:re-writing Newton's Principia to allow for the transmission of momentum from a body to another body that is outrunning it?
doctorGONZO said:BTW....Anybody who cares can get much more accurate information about the car specs and claimed performance, compared to the almost perfectly innacurate and contradictory info round here, if they Google "Blackbird" and pick out the entry connected with MAKE MAGAZINE. It contains a lengthy discussion thread in which the car owner does his best, I suppose, to tell complete and truthful information about it.
liveforphysics said:One of the beautiful things about human reality, is the ability to choose what you believe, and have exclusive and complete domain over it.
We've painstakingly and explicitly demonstrated every aspect of the function of the device, in the domain of the mathematical, the theoretical, and the philosophical. We've provided numerous off-site resources which also offering excellent explanations that work using conventional and simple to follow physics and mathematics. Most importantly, there are many accounts and evidence of it's function being demonstrated from college groups to NASA research to simple cardboard based conceptual models on youtube videos.
We can very clearly demonstrate if you are harnessing energy, you can choose to accelerate faster than the force you're harvesting energy from by means of simple mechanical mechanism.
The paper strip with the spool is as beautiful and elegant of a proof as anything a human is going to put into words. For some reason Gonzo chooses to believe this violates some imagined fantasy limitation he has imposed on his model of the physical world, despite his ability to watch a spool jet forward at whatever multiple of the speed of the strip it's drawing it's energy from due to the most simple/elegant mechanical mechanisms, the difference in radius between contact points on the object, paper strip, and surface it's riding upon.
If Gonzo wishes to choose to live in his own reality set where this does not function, it is his choice and I can respect his wish to do so. It's kinda refreshing actually to see such a solid reminder that reality for a human is exclusively what you believe it to be, and there is no sum of evidence or logic that can displace ones belief of reality if they don't choose to believe.
Thank you for the beautiful display of human free-will and choice Gonzo. Inspirational.
liveforphysics said:One of the beautiful things about human reality, is the ability to choose what you believe, and have exclusive and complete domain over it.
.... It's kinda refreshing actually to see such a solid reminder that reality for a human is exclusively what you believe it to be, and there is no sum of evidence or logic that can displace ones belief of reality if they don't choose to believe.
Thank you for the beautiful display of human free-will and choice Gonzo. Inspirational.
johnrobholmes said:At least now I can say I have perceived an observance of hypertrolling in real life.
I don't think basic Newtonian physics is still considered "exotic" in 2014.doctorGONZO said:I know how to analyze a supposed exotic thingy.
endlessplane said:I don't think