Climate Change

[edcastrovalley]

I couldn't help notice the crazy weather changes we've having in the US this year so I've been paying attention to any news on the topic of climate change. Mostly I've been looking towards the mainstream news media for info but there really hasn't been much news about it. All I see are daily reports of high temperatures, dust storms, forest fires, etc. with lots of videos and occasionally the words "climate change" as the blame and then it just ends there. Then I found this link that someone in an electric car forum posted that spells out a lot of what's going on here. It's an article out of the Rolling Stones magazine.

Basically we're locked in this vicious economic cycle of politics, money, greed and and a pesky nusance known as climate change. The oil and coal industry have major investments in carbon based fuels, including a lot that still underground and these investments place a lot of pressure on them. Face it, even our 401Ks and retirement funds are all invested in these fuels placing more pressure on these oil execs (and atmosphere) and then, of course, a lot of us are running to the gas station with our hard earned money in our hands practically *DEMANDING* the fuel that we *NEED*. Check it out!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719

 

[Kingfish]

Some of us believe the planet is warming due to human influence. You can count me in on those numbers.

Some believe it is simply the Earth doing its’ normal thing and that humans have very little – if any impact on climate. I fear to admit that my parents believe this to be true as do most of their friends. It’s sad cos we can’t hardly have a civil discussion without one side (or both) becoming heated in the conversation well above the average rise in global warming! And for that matter – it pretty much includes any subject regarding humans creating smog or mining or pollution or depletion of natural resources (including oil and gas). I don’t think I could even have a respectable conversation about the loss of fishing habitat without being degraded or debunked as “listening to too much NPR”.

I actually don’t listen to NPR, though I do check the website daily for something interesting to read or listen to – and these stories are often book or movie or band reviews cos I already know anything political that is posted is going to lean left… I mean they are the anti-FOX channel... and I don't read FOX news either.

Arguably – the Earth is warming due to celestial activity, such as our Sun as it nears the peak of the 11-year cycle – aptly named “Solar Maximum”: We know this particular cycle is more energetic than any other in the past 150 years, and certainly this should be factored in. It could be that the precession of the Earth as it orbits around the Sun is bringing the planet closer to more direct heating – however this is closer to a 10,000-year cycle and I would suspect the influences from year to year would be 2 or 3 orders of magnitude less.

When it can be measured that CO2 in our atmosphere has been spiking to levels not seen in oh, tens of thousands of years over the span of the last 150 years – that to me seems to be a pretty good indication that something is creating all gas. It could be caused by forest and grass fires, it could come from volcanic eruptions, but I tend to believe the majority of it comes from heavy industry first – such as coal-fired plants and diesel engines, followed by cars and gas-heating… and then forest fires.

I don’t think the vast majority of freakishly conservative thinking minds will “get” that we are the cause of global warming, even when the oceans warm to the point that frozen methane hydrates begin to bloom up from the bottom and drive up the ol’ Earth temp another 10 degrees. I really don’t know what to use for evidence anymore. I mean we’re talking about a class of people that are staunchly conservative and patriotic and gun-totn’ color-sensitive Republicans that shop at Costco, Wal-Mart, and Harbor Freight.

And yet – they’ll cry and bitch that it’s hot, the power bill is way too high, and that we need some rain (in the mountains) to keep their lawns green and plants from dying, or that people are out of work, or that foreigners are moving in everywhere and taking over … Yet they cannot connect the dots and see the fallacy of their creation.

It scares me. And I don’t know how to wake them up without being disowned. :|

~KF

 

[John in CR]

Yep, the Sun has been more active, so of course the weather has been too since the sun by far has the biggest impact on our climate. Whether man's tiny effect has contributed to a natural warming trend is all but irrelevant. Man certainly didn't cause it and certainly can't prevent it, only adapt. It's all just a distraction from man's real impact on the environment, which is pollution.

 

[edcastrovalley]

I don’t think the vast majority of freakishly conservative thinking minds will “get” that we are the cause of global warming, even when the oceans warm to the point that frozen methane hydrates begin to bloom up from the bottom and drive up the ol’ Earth temp another 10 degrees. I really don’t know what to use for evidence anymore. I mean we’re talking about a class of people that are staunchly conservative and patriotic and gun-totn’ color-sensitive Republicans that shop at Costco, Wal-Mart, and Harbor Freight.

~KF

Hehe, I was just talking to my son's scout leader about a nearby forest fire in the Clear Lake area of Northern California and I asked him if he thought global warming could be real. "Absolutely Not!" was his reply. Well, I thought, no need to go into any further discussion about that; he's an upstanding American you know.

 

[neptronix]

In my opinion, we are boned either way. Humanity is too stupid to save itself, if we are the cause. If we are not the cause, then we do not have the power to stop it anyway. We have to realize that our time on earth is precious and temporary. Enjoy it while it lasts.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/antarctica/vostok/vostok_co2.html

The data from the vostok ice cores is really interesting. It shows multiple periods of warming & cooling. Seems that there is a cycle at play. Makes you wonder what caused the cycles before us.

Peak population is not going to be pretty; i am more concerned about lack of resources. I think the best thing you can do is have as few of kids as possible and encourage others to do so as well.

In the meantime, consider buying future oceanfront property in Nevada :lol:

 

[John in CR]

The data from the vostok ice cores is really interesting.

Yes it is, but discussing it with believers is about as pointless as discussing the reasons increased helmet use by cyclists hasn't resulted in increases in overall safety, and that mandatory helmet laws are detrimental to society as a whole because they decrease ridership.

 

[neptronix]

The data from the vostok ice cores is really interesting.

Yes it is, but discussing it with believers is about as pointless as discussing the reasons increased helmet use by cyclists hasn't resulted in increases in overall safety, and that mandatory helmet laws are detrimental to society as a whole because they decrease ridership.

I dunno man . I have actually made a couple people think by showing that to them. The data comes from the same source that tells you to do something about the sky falling.

I used to be a real believer. But seeing this really threw a wrench in the works for me.
I've also seem the people who claim to be freaked out by it the most, sit idly by and not do anything about it. They often have goals for other people that don't make any sense and that they don't follow themselves.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I'm a pretty liberal guy, but global warming isn't something I'm on board with. Sure, it's probably getting hotter.

But when people say, "save the planet," it's pretty ignorant in my opinion. This planet has been around longer than we have exponentially, and it will be here long after we're gone. We're just one of many cycles of species coming along, and we'll fade like all the others did.

You can't save the planet because you can't kill the planet. We ARE the planet. The earth isn't a separate entity from us. We're just something that grew out of it and broke free of its roots. We can move around, unlike the plants, but we're still very much attached. Where else can we go? The best we can do is build large boats and launch them into space for a while, but we'll run out of the little piece of earth we bring with us out there, and have to return. Nothing on the International Space Station is made up there except for electricity. The ISS is not self-sustaining. Even it relies on the earth for spare parts, oxygen, food, etc.

We can't even climb the highest mountain on this planet without doing a ton of preparation, and even if we do it without bottled oxygen, we can only handle about 48 hours above 24,000 feet.

So, the planet will be fine with or without us. There's nothing in our power that can destroy this planet. We can launch every nuke there is and life will survive. Even if all life were killed by our nukes, it would simply be a matter of time before the planet rebounded because there is bacteria and seeds, etc. in suspended animation in deserts, ice, etc.

And as I mentioned: The life on this planet isn't separate from the planet. It is the planet.


Did you know that only 10 percent of the cells in your body are human? You are 90% other creatures. Kind of gross if you think about it. Plus, most of those cells are filled with a lot of water, so really what makes you YOU is just a little of this and that. So you aren't human. You are part human.


Pollution isn't a problem. It's a symptom.

The problem (if it's a problem) is overpopulation, which leads to all the other symptoms of war, pollution, warming, etc.


But the greater story is our self-awareness. We know about humans. Your dog doesn't know about all the dogs in the world. As far as he's concerned there are only a couple dozen on the planet. But you and I know how many people there are.

Worse is that we are most likely the only ones on this planet who are aware of impending mortality. Sure, whales are smart and they know a dead whale when they see one, but does the whale have the capability to stop and look at a dead whale and think, "you know, some day that will be me. I'm going to die."

We humans know we are going to die, and we also know intrinsically that nobody has come back to tell others what it's like on the other side. Oh, sure, we have people out for a few minutes, and you hear those stories of kids trapped in ice for an hour who come back, but of the billions and billions of people who lived and died before us, where are they? Why won't they talk to us? Can they? Are they in heaven, or are they just pfft like the ants we smear?


We exist. We are a cell on a larger body called Earth.

 

[Dauntless]

Has it really been 51 years since America was first introduced to Global Warming the only way they'll ever pay attention? When Irwin Allen produces a movie with submarines and giant squid, people rush to hear what he has to say. He advises that a meteor shower pierced the Van Allen radiation belt causing it to catch fire, resulting in a world-threatening increase in heat all across the Earth. The audience shivers in the air conditioned theater on those hot summer days. 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' is a huge hit with everyone but the critics.

But Allen was an oracle in one way: People are more interested in politicking and arguing than in dealing with the problem. To some, the greater threat is being proven WRONG. What makes this Chief Scientist Zucco so worth listening to? Is it because he's from Vienna? (I mean, sure, that's kewl, but. . . .) Does everyone simply like the fact that he promises the problem will go away on it's own? Could the rise of temperatures exceeding Zucco's predictions be more than just an inconvenient truth?

In that, I find 'Voyage' almost prophetic: Noone will stand even for precautions being taken. All the world's navies are hunting the Seaview, (Those scientists from Vienna have some clout) trying to keep it from reaching the point where super scientist Admiral Nelson says a nuke must be launched into the stratusphere to put the skyfire out. Good luck stopping him, this is the ultimate high tech sub, succors. But Nelson seems to be going Captain Queeg, Captain Crane is about to cry 'Strawberries,' while Peter Lorre's Commodore(?) Emery is mumbling nonstop. Well, they're all under a bit of pressure, what with the deepsea minefield (Like, who would bother planting those when the brand new Seaview is the only sub that could go that deep?) that Giant Squid (I'll see your 20,000 Leagues and raise you another 20,000) and a whole host of suspects on just who might be that saboteur. (A 'Saboteur' is a person who sticks a wooden shoe into the machinery to shut it down. Although I suppose a person that raced a sailboat not quite 8 feet long has a right to be called a Saboteur, too.)

But just in case, shouldn't they put that missle in place in time for that self absored Zucco to be proved wrong? Oh no, believing anything but the easiest, safest possibility is downright heresy. What I like about Admiral Nelson is that he'll stop at almost nothing to be ready, if needed. I rather think he's inspired by Admiral Charles Momsen, (You know what a momsen lung is, right? Or a diving bell?) Not only did this guy solve the mystery of why the U.S. torpedoes were not detonating at the beginning of World War II, he performed the ONLY successful rescue of a trapped submarine crew at depth in history with his deep sea bell, the machine that the Navy brass originally rejected as "Impractical" but then built as a public relations ploy after the headlines reported that the trapped crew of the downed submarine S-4 tapped out in morse code "Please come soon" as they waited to die. Thanks to that message, the crew of the Squalus was later saved. Imagine the number of nasayers that wanted him to fail just because he was such an impolitic guy. Thinkers usually are.

Wouldn't it be great to have a guy like that working on Global Warm---excuse me, CLIMATE CHANGE? (Much less scary sounding that warming. Look at all the idiots that fell for "Change" in 2008 because it sounded warm and toas. . . .) Momsen figured out the solution to 'Nitrogen Narcosis' at 100 foot depths, replacing the nitrogen with helium to allow divers to go below 300 feet. Was there anything that man couldn't do? He even tricked the Navy into developing the ultimate submarine as an enemy combatant combat trainer, they didn't want to think about better submarines while they had all those surface ships, but Momsen's work on the practice boat led to the building of the Nautilus, the ultimate submarine (At the time) and inspiration for the Seaview.

But get one thing straight: There's not going to be some sort of little 'Answer.' 'Rolling Stone' lies, you don't know how much of that information they made up, don't forget their fictional General McChrystal interview that got the guy fired. The official Pentagon finding “In some instances, we found no witness who acknowledged making or hearing the comments as reported. In other instances, we confirmed that the general substance of an incident at issue occurred, but not in the exact context described in the article." (From 15 people present at the interview.) Don't look for information that's going to help you from 'Rolling Stone'. (I sure wish the "Joe BITE ME" comment was true.)

Remember the days when all we had to do was get the CFC's out of the air conditioning? Somewhere between 1997 and 1999 the situation would stop getting worse, by 2004 things would start getting noticably better. Oh, at the same time as this was being said, there was also 'The Environmental Cliff.' "We have ten years to save the Earth," before we were to hit the point where the situation snowballs so big that we just sort of drop like a rock. (Yeah, I'm too embarrassed to even still have a copy of the video I made about this. Wonder how much money they raised.) Which ever side you're on, your side is lying to you. Forget the other side, YOUR SIDE is lying to you.

The Gyre is NOT an island of plastic the size of the state of Texas. (I asked one of these fear speakers who was spreading erroneous information if anyone in his group knew how big Texas was, or where this island really was. He was stuck.) It is merely five patterns of ocean currents that are collecting more and more trash at more or less the center of that part of the ocean. The plastic is being eaten slowly by plastic eating bacteria, but these are not the healthiest bacteria for the fish to be eating, so that's the REAL danger of the Gyre. Soon there'll be more plastic eating bacteria, more fish eating it and either dying or being caught so there'll be more being fed to us. Not what the fear mongers are telling you to believe, but it is the truth. Dang, the horror stories you must have heard by now. The truth is worse to those who understand it, but it's not as sexy, so the people who enjoy spreading the fear will never tell you the truth.

And the truth is the state of California is trying to build more that 10,000 square miles of solar roofs. Not to power the whole country, not even to power the entire state, just to create 25% of the state's power from OVER "1 million solar roofs." (Just a slogan.) But how many crews are there in the state buildng these roofs? A dozen? 2 dozen? I'd be shocked if there's 100 or even close. But if there's enough people with the expertise to build 1,000 solar roofs a year it would then take 1,000 years to build those 1 million solar roofs that aren't even the goal. It'll be a big job just doubling the number of trained technicians, do you think anything is happening with that?

But oh gee, now people want to worry about how much of this climate change is man made and how much is by nature and unavoidable. But god forbid we should bother to have cleaner air on those really hot days if we can't avoid it getting hotter. What would you do if your house could produce its' own electricity when there was a power failure on a routinely 110 degree day? Run the air conditioner? Do you know WHICH no electricity neighbor will come over to remind you that 'Your solar panels really didn't prevent global warming, you know?' (I'm a post modernist. The only REAL answers come in the punchline to a joke.)

Nobody with a lick of sense CARES whether mankind can succeed at stopping the climate change. Because all this long string of problems are going to be tackled one at a time, an inch at a time. In our lifetimes a lot of it will still be going on. The question is not what can you prevent, it's what can you live through. Admirals Nelson and Momsen aren't going to be there to rescue us.

I've also seem the people who claim to be freaked out by it the most, sit idly by and not do anything about it. They often have goals for other people that don't make any sense and that they don't follow themselves.

I just had to include that. Belongs in the Quotable Quotes section.

 

[John in CR]

... Global Warm---excuse me, CLIMATE CHANGE? (Much less scary sounding that warming. Look at all the idiots that fell for "Change" in 2008 because it sounded warm and toas. . . .)

It seems to me that they changed the name because it stopped getting warmer while the sun was in a lower activity period. If given a choice between very slightly warmer and the much colder that is soon to follow, I'll take warmer. Weathermen have enough trouble predicting next week's exact temperature, so I'm not falling for their 100 year prediction. It's just a money grab. Like most issues, follow the money for the real answer when someone is trying to scare everyone.

So what are we suppose to be scared of next?
-The next super volcano eruption...Yellowstone is due and is showing increased activity.
-The next big asteroid or comet to hit..."It happened before...It will happen again."
At least with these it'll be over quickly for many, or is it going to be:
-The next swap in the magnetic poles of the planet...again a supposedly overdue cyclic occurrence that would mess stuff up during the long (in our timescale) transition.
-Alen invasion- That would be fun, not scary, so I vote for this one. The engineering and astronomy pulled off thousands of years ago is enough evidence for me that they've been here before.

John

 

[Harold in CR]

I'm just going to say, IF those war planes that landed on Greenland, or Iceland, (can't recall which), have been under 150'+ of ice, there surely wasn't much ice there when they landed, as compared to now.

I believe the devices that measure all these "dangerous" emissions, have been thoroughly tweaked over the years, to show increases that were overlooked years ago. I live high and dry, and, our trees will block aircraft from landing, so, I'm just gonna sit tight and watch. 8) 8) :lol:

I have neighbors that are using recently bought, large trucks to haul heavy loads up here, then, go to bed, and when getting up in the morning, haul those heavy loads back down the hill. They have beaten our dirt road down about 12" below the surrounding terrain, so, they are presently digging "Drainage ditches", which will effectively lower the road more, meaning deeper drainage ditches, ad infinitum. I proposed to split the cost of a large load of river run fill, to BUILD UP the road. NOOOO, they ditch the top of the hill so water can run down hill, cutting more and deeper ditches ???

HOW in the hell is anyone supposed to talk sense to people that just KNOW they are always right ??

 

[MikeFairbanks]

All those sci-fi films about the future of the planet and doom and gloom are all revolving around humans.

That's what this is really about. People are freaked out over carbon in the air, pollution in the water, increasing temperatures, droughts, floods, desertification, and much, much more, but all those events are okay in a sense. They are threats to the human beings and plants/animals, but life will prevail.

And even if 100% of all organisms on this planet go extinct, well, then there will just be one more desert sphere in a solar system of many, in a galaxy of many solar systems, and in a universe of many galaxies that are far too numerous to count.

If there is no God and if there is no other life in the universe, then we truly are just something that bubbled out of the soup a long time ago, and are nothing more than a different organization of atoms/molecules/proteins, yada yada.

Everything in our bodies is found in the rocks, the soil, the air, etc.

I always tell my students that everything we have comes from only three sources: the ground, the plants, and the animals. That includes food, phones, pencils, chairs, TVs....everything.

The earth gets some stuff added to it (sunlight and space debris), but other than that it's safe to say that nothing really comes or goes.

The dinosaurs aren't gone. Every single atom in every single dinosaur is still right here, but it's been reorganized into something else (such as the very keyboard on which I'm typing).


My point is that we are placing far too much importance on ourselves. We are, in fact, doomed. It's inevitable. No species has or will last forever, and when we go could be tomorrow or a thousand years from now. It could be ten thousand, but that would be interesting due to the fact that 10,000 years ago we were wearing animal skins and wandering around for something to eat. We didn't even know that the yucky parts of the apple were the next generation of apples, if only placed in the soil just right. We ate the apple, threw the rest away, and somehow somebody said, "Hey, have you noticed what's growing out of our trash pile?"

Agriculture.

That was just a few thousand years ago.

Half that time ago someone said, "Do you think that if I scratch something into this rock that others will know what it means?"

And so reading and writing came along, giving us the ability to read someone else's mind from a distance. Ben Franklin died over a hundred years before I was born, and yet I can read his mind (at least the parts he let me read).



Or.................

Through science can we master our species? Can we cure all disease, reproduce perfectly healthy humans through genetics, grow the perfect amount of food, keep the air and water in the condition we choose, and control the earth's climate? Can we find a target population that this planet can sustain? (well, if we don't the planet will anyway).


I don't see a slow, impending doom. What I think will happen is something big, like an asteroid, and we'll have panic and all kinds of craziness as it approaches. Most of the people will be killed. It will be scary, but to call it a bad thing is to not understand it from a universal perspective.


That asteroid is no different than the iron snake that wove through the west, bringing an entire race to the point of extinction, along with the bison.


Obviously I don't want my family involved in any of the doom and gloom. It's supposed to happen to a bunch of other people.


But that is not my choice, nor do I want it to be. I'm not a survivalist, and I won't want to live in a Mad Max society. I don't look good in leather.

 

[edcastrovalley]

And even if 100% of all organisms on this planet go extinct, well, then there will just be one more desert sphere in a solar system of many, in a galaxy of many solar systems, and in a universe of many galaxies that are far too numerous to count.

Thank you Mike! I'll sleep a ton better knowing we won't crash our solar system with a little CO2. :lol: Hey, speaking of CO2 maybe we could replace the ice caps with CO2 ice! That would be a good way to sequester all our unwanted carbon.

I don't know how long the topic of global warming has been around but I do remembered an old film from Bell Laboratories from way back that talked about the melting of polar ice caps and the flooding of the Mississippi delta region, etc. I did a little search on Youtube and found the little gem. It's from 1958.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-AXBbuDxRY

 

[cal3thousand]

Our problem of natural resource scarcity will have a larger and more acute effect on our world than the warming of our atmosphere.

It's simple math really. 2 curves, one is resource demand and the other is natural resource supply. The "price" that we pay (each of us) is the intersection of those lines. It is clear to see that the "price" will continue to increase until one of those lines can no longer continue.

 

[bearing]

Climate change is always affected to make people more adaptive on the environment because they will give much desire to make a good details in helping a best information that enhances a desire to mingle a good air conditioning.

This guy is the most hilarious spammer I have ever seen.

 

[deronmoped]

Even the the "warmers" don't really believe there is a serious threat, from what they believe in.

Just look at what the "warmers" are doing to save themselves and the planet from what they believe is a impending disaster, absolutely nothing. They still drive their cars, live in their houses, burning the evil fuel... Can you imagine how far back into the stone age we would have to go to make a difference. You see, there are another few billion on the planet that would love to live the energy consuming lives we live. And they are making every effort to catch up with us. So for us to accommodate them, we would have to reduce so they can increase their use of energy.

Of the "believers", who's going to give up their way of life first, any takers, I though not.

 

[arkmundi]

Even the the "warmers" don't really believe there is a serious threat.... Of the "believers", who's going to give up their way of life first, any takers, I thought not.

Seems that this topic has been overrun with an expressed opinion to discredit the vast scientific consensus on anthropogenic induced climate change. How very sad. So yea, having really considered the actual facts of our situation, I have steadly reduced-rused-recycled to the point my life does not resemble what it once was. Gave up driving a Ford Hybrid Escape. Gave up having a drivers license. My sole means of transporation now is the ebike I put together with help on this forum. Still think my carbon footprint too large. The appetite for garbage never ceases to amaze me!

 

[rscamp]

I think the best words of advice on this topic are to never confuse weather with climate.

 

[Joseph C.]

Seems that this topic has been overrun with an expressed opinion to discredit the vast scientific consensus on anthropogenic induced climate change. How very sad. So yea, having really considered the actual facts of our situation, I have steadly reduced-rused-recycled to the point my life does not resemble what it once was. Gave up driving a Ford Hybrid Escape. Gave up having a drivers license. My sole means of transporation now is the ebike I put together with help on this forum. Still think my carbon footprint too large. The appetite for garbage never ceases to amaze me!

I fully agree, arkmundi.

People with no background in meteorology, geology, paleogeology, astrophysics, paeloclimatology, Earth sciences and oceanology decide in their 'wisdom' that their egotistical opinions with no scientific backing are right and the entire scientific community - 90 plus per cent of them - are wrong (i.e. virtually everyone bar those on the take).

I maintain that it is too late to reverse the trends but the off-shoot of creating a better world by combating our emissions now should be strived for regardless.

 

[arkmundi]

I maintain that it is too late to reverse the trends but the off-shoot of creating a better world by combating our emissions now should be strived for regardless.

Thanks. My position as well, after reading James Lovelock's last - The Vanishing Face of Gaia http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/feb/21/james-lovelock-gaia-book-review). Regardless, my sanity requires I do everything possible.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...is-happening/2012/07/12/gJQAh92wgW_story.html

Americans polled by The Post and Stanford do see climate change as occurring: Six in 10 say weather patterns around the world have been more unstable in the past three years than previously, a perception that’s changed little since 2006. Nearly as many also say average temperatures were higher during the past three years than before that.

In terms of what can be done about it, about 55 percent say a “great deal” or “good amount” can be done to reduce future global warming. At the same time, 60 percent of those polled say it will be extremely or very difficult for people to stop it.

At least the fight for the public mind is over as of this year's extreme weather. Its the "very difficult" opinion that's our current conundrum. I did not find it that difficult in retrospect, but in advance of any change, like giving up the convenience of a car, I believed it would be difficult.

 

[Dauntless]

So you regard public perception as a valuable thing, eh? Let people get ideas in their heads and refuse to let go of them?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IosUXJAxRg4/S33Zs7dat1I/AAAAAAAAHcc/wnVxrG3004o/s1600-h/slide_4728_65460_large.jpg

The fight for the public mind. What a useless thing to fight over. Afterall, commonsense and nonsense are pretty much the same thing. For example: People think it's a GOOD thing that the Fed is literally printing $10 billion dollars a week, every week, trying to recreate the real estate bubble by running up the prices to get people buying again and borrowing the $10 billion the Fed is printing. Where the money is REALLY going is into the stock market, recreating the stock market bubble of 1929 and other great crashes. Have you ever heard the saying "Wall Street has predicted 12 of the last 3 recessions?"

What's really happening is the Fed is making it easier to make money in the stock market by insuring there'll be an extra $2 billion to buy stocks each and every day, which is driving the stock market up, up, up. . . . Do you know what happens next?

[youtube]dfiR1Rde7dI[/youtube]

 

[torqueon]

Observation alone tells me its getting warmer, from living in 3 regions of the USA over 12 years each. The last 3 years in this region is one of alarm!!

Some agree and some feel it's to late. Some feel its just bullshit ! I feel that regardless of the problem all should participate on a grassroots level. Recycle all you can, with out cost to make it real.

Have much to say on this topic, too many beer cans to recycle L O L good night.