Cromotor v2 + Methods 18 fet controller help

Yep - only interested in your No Load current.

Please - when sorting out an issue like this - load up something like a 20A current limit. This is so critical.... and will save you from so much heartache.

-methods
 
methods said:
Yep - only interested in your No Load current.

Please - when sorting out an issue like this - load up something like a 20A current limit. This is so critical.... and will save you from so much heartache.

-methods
Click to expand...

+1

I blew up my controller when testing hall/phase combis. Having a 20A fuse in place, and a 10A current limit in the CA makes all the difference between a good controller and a dead one.
 
Bad phase connection or bad controller phase

I have seen failures where the drive circuitry for one side (high or low) of one leg (Y, B, or G) had a problem and it manifested in a similar way. Smooth freewheel running but totally rough under load. In that case tho - there are often "dead spots" where the motor wont spin up from a dead stop.

I suggest rigging up a "needle probe" and poking into the wire close to where it meets the hub with the red lead, then poking into the wire right where it meets the controller with the black lead - then make sure there is continuity. If there is, try hooking up a constant current source and pushing 10 or 100A through the wiring to see what happens.

Oh - here is an idea to prove it out.
Set up a test
Pull the green wire and do a freewheel test
Replace the green and pull the blue wire and do a free wheel test
Replace the blue wire and pull the yellow wire and do a freewheel test

Were all three tests identical?
Did one behave differently?
Did two behave differently?

-methods
 
I just tried the 2 phase test.
The motor very rarely will twitch and if it has enough momentum from the twitch it will spin.
The roughness is very similar to what I'm experiencing under load, however it will start under load if all 3 are plugged in.

Did not notice any difference between all 3 combinations of 2 phases.

I will test the original motor with this controller again just to make sure.

[youtube]E-WyYiwMAys[/youtube]

Here's a shaky video of me holding my phone while trying to ride it in my driveway.
All phases are connected.

[youtube]rR9qUtUvYQ8[/youtube]
 
Hard to say from the video... sounds kind of like it may be running on 2 phaes.
What if 1 phase is connected by only a strand... such that freewheel it behaves but under load that strand can not conduct current.

TEST:
UNDER LOAD:

All three wires connected
Blue wire disconnected
Yellow wire disconnected
Green wire disconnected

4 tests
Start all of them from a roll to eliminate the starting commutation

If one connection is poor it should show up in that test.

Just to confirm - you are doing this with two different controllers to eliminate that variable right?
So the things that are suspect (if that is true) are the motor phase connector, motor hall connector, and all wiring going to the motor.

Of course... it still could be a bad hall/phase combo - though I have never seen one that ran up super smooth and drew about 2A and sounded like yours sounded that was not correct.

These motors are pretty simple... just a big piece of iron with copper wire wrapped around. If you were local we could just sort it out fast by swapping in another motor. Given your location that complicates things and forces us to try and proxy-solve your problem. Very difficult.

-methods
 
I tried my x5304 again just to make sure and it runs smoothly.
Did the 2 phase test under load. Sounds like a tractor going putt putt putt and barely any torque.
All 3 combos were identical.
Same with a lyen 12 fet.

Has anyone done a direct comparison between an x5 and cromotor?
 
Just to rule out one other possible issue, have you tried it with the CA unplugged ? Not that it should cause those issues you're describing but I've had head scratching sessions before with new gear only to find the CA playing shenanigans

You mentioned to me in PM that it ran fine on a sensorless controller. Was that just freewheeling or a test ride too? If it runs fine with a sensorless controller that pretty much rules out the issue of a bad phase and to me says it has to be hall related. Unless it's an othewise bad connection in general. Why are you using 30a andersons on a cromotor ?? Contacts making a good connection ?
 
There was no CA with the lyen 12 fet.

I did not run the sensorless under load as its only a 6 fet.

Using Andersons since the x5304. Never been an issue for me. Probably will switch to the 150 bullets once I get this sorted.
Contacts are perfect.

Couldn't help myself, took it out and floored it.

It's very rough at 0-10km/h then at higher speeds sounds like a magic pie.
Current seems normal under heavy acceleration and feels good.

Is this just how the cromotor is?
 
All of the ones I have put on bikes are smooth but can produce violent torque at a dead stop in 20" tires. So you have now verified all wiring to the motor? You can use the 6 fet to test under load, just keep the voltage to 50v or lower and program the controller for 30a batt 70a phase max. I have done this and the controller worked fine. I tested as high as 60a batt 80a phase, but I don't suggest that. I still have that controller and it can run sensored or sensor less. I can try it out sensor less and let you know how it rides. Well I might not be able to yet as I am stress testing controllers using an 18.6 KV Cromotor.

Your video of it under load sounds like its on 2 phases from bad phase / hall connection. I have done this a few times and that is what mine sounded like. Every sing time i though i had a solid connection on both but closer inpection eventually revealed wiring issues. Either that or you have the worlds loosest spokes. Does the motor have any physical wobble to it on spin up with no load? 1 or 2 km is normal side to side.
 
I dont know if this helps but I had a 9c and I switched to a 5404 without changing the pole count on the ca and there was no way it would run smooth until I got the pole count right .It would sort of go full speed for half a revoloution then like a big flatspot then another half a rev flat out and so on and so on. You should be able to get more than 14 poles on your ca on my 9c its set to 21 Im fairly sure the pole count dose a whole lot more than control the speedo .
 
zombiess said:
All of the ones I have put on bikes are smooth but can produce violent torque at a dead stop in 20" tires. So you have now verified all wiring to the motor? You can use the 6 fet to test under load, just keep the voltage to 50v or lower and program the controller for 30a batt 70a phase max. I have done this and the controller worked fine. I tested as high as 60a batt 80a phase, but I don't suggest that. I still have that controller and it can run sensored or sensor less. I can try it out sensor less and let you know how it rides. Well I might not be able to yet as I am stress testing controllers using an 18.6 KV Cromotor.

Your video of it under load sounds like its on 2 phases from bad phase / hall connection. I have done this a few times and that is what mine sounded like. Every sing time i though i had a solid connection on both but closer inpection eventually revealed wiring issues. Either that or you have the worlds loosest spokes. Does the motor have any physical wobble to it on spin up with no load? 1 or 2 km is normal side to side.
Click to expand...

It's a lot smoother than the 2 phase test I did. It seems like something is interfering with the hall signals at startup.
Spokes are tight. Practically no wobble side to side, at least not 1 to 2km :lol:


alan c said:
I dont know if this helps but I had a 9c and I switched to a 5404 without changing the pole count on the ca and there was no way it would run smooth until I got the pole count right .It would sort of go full speed for half a revoloution then like a big flatspot then another half a rev flat out and so on and so on. You should be able to get more than 14 poles on your ca on my 9c its set to 21 Im fairly sure the pole count dose a whole lot more than control the speedo .
Click to expand...

My CA is a v2.0 which has a max pole setting of 14 and is not firmware upgradable :(
What you're describing is the feedback loop of the CA limiting the speed because it thinks you're running way faster than you actually are.
But what I'm seeing is definitely not CA related and for the record, I have used 2 different controllers without the CA.
 
Quick update,
Been riding the bike for over 100km. Still very jerky from 0-5km/h, give it more throttle and it gets out of the zone pretty quickly with pedestrians staring.
So far so good, nothing has exploded.

Cromotor is a lot louder than any crystalyte I've had ie. x5304 x5404 and hs3540.
Pulls very hard at 82V 120A. Quite a bit harder than x5404 probably due to the larger stator and lighter weight.

Will report back when I get the sabvoton sine wave controller.
 
Just another note on something I've noticed lately. I've been switching between EB2XX controllers and EB3xx controllers for testing recently and the EB3xx controllers can have a rougher really low speed performance especially at high amp settings, the motor is also noticeably louder at low speed using the EB3xx vs the EB2xx. I'd have to look at a scope to see what's going on, but personally I don't care as it's still smooth.

Which controller and what settings are you running for phase A and battery A?
 
I'm running methods 18fet eb218 at 120A / 320A

Btw zombiess, I read one of your threads where you seemed to have a similar problem which forced you to open the motor up. What happened in the end? It just seemed to me that it suddenly worked after that.
 
Nanoha said:
I'm running methods 18fet eb218 at 120A / 320A

Btw zombiess, I read one of your threads where you seemed to have a similar problem which forced you to open the motor up. What happened in the end? It just seemed to me that it suddenly worked after that.
Click to expand...

Shipping damage bent stator was determined to be the cause after hal9000v2 examined it.
 
I doubt it, especially since it runs OK at high speed under load.

I just re watched your video of you riding under load. The noise could be the wheel/spokes resonating from the sound. I definitely notice more noise on my 20" BMX wheel vs my 14" motorcycle wheel. Does it feel rough or just make that noise, hard to tell from the video as it looks pretty smooth. The only other culprit I can think would be a shorted phase winding, but that would get WAY worse as you increased amps/voltage, not get smoother.

Another thing I've done in the past that has caused really noisy / rough starts is having a bad battery to phase amp ratio (I believe I posted about this long ago). I noticed this more on EB3xx controllers but EB2xx controllers could probably do the same.

Try setting it for 50A battery, 140A phase (take any shunt mods into account) and try it again.
 
Ok guys, the motor is perfectly fine with a sine wave controller.
I suspect it's the controller limiting current on startup leading to the noisy vibrations.
Also the cromotor is a loud motor. Almost as loud as a magic pie.

I really appreciate the help you guys have me, especially newb who went and recorded multiple videos of his cromotor at different speeds / controllers.

Thank you
 
Nanoha said:
Ok guys, the motor is perfectly fine with a sine wave controller.
I suspect it's the controller limiting current on startup leading to the noisy vibrations.
Also the cromotor is a loud motor. Almost as loud as a magic pie.

I really appreciate the help you guys have me, especially newb who went and recorded multiple videos of his cromotor at different speeds / controllers.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Happy to help, I'm just happy you're up and running. I really like how quiet the cro is with that sine wave controller, I'll be closely watching your progress. Please keep us updated on your impression of that controller.


Btw, I have the 6s version of the zippy 8ah packs you posted about in the other thread. They are about the same age with a similar # cycles and have the same/even worse sage. My wifes bike at 12s pulling at most 22a easily sages 10v and now they only lasts a 1/3 of their stated capacity. Those were a complete waste of money; I'll not make that mistake again. (sorry i know this bit belongs in the other tread)
 
Typical hobby king crap I guess.
It's always the batteries holding the EV revolution back.
I just love how I can go 40km on 500ml of petrol with my chainsaw motor bike.
 
@Nanoah
Good that you finally got the sine wave controller to work fine with the cromotor. I might try one some day. Both my cromotors V1 and V2 are doing fine with Lyen's 18 fet 4110 upgraded to 150 A batt.

@Newb
RC Lipo cells don't like discharging lower than 3.7.
If you go lower, they will start losing capacity, eventually puff and age very quickly.
I have Zippies here, that had seen 600 cycles and still about 80% capacity.
 
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