Will you offer a version with Hall Sensors Included? (My 18FET 4115 Lyen-Infineon Controller [with 45A default limit] with programmable regen requires Hall sensors.) If the Crown will not be offered with Hall sensors will the 60A 15FET 4115 controller you offer be able to provide regen? What price will you be charging for your 60A 4115 controller offering(s)?
Crystalyte NEW HIGH POWER hub motor...TheCrown
- Thread starter RoughRider
- Start date
pchen92
100 W
I got my Cromotor for 500$... (shipping not included) 40% lower pricehi-powercycles said:
hi-powercycles
100 W
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- Jul 10, 2008
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8 motors left. We can add hall sensors to run with Lyen's controller. Also, width is 140mm at dropouts. I opened one up for you guys:
Lamination Stack:
Silver plated Teflon wires:
Inside of TheCrown:
Lamination Stack:
Silver plated Teflon wires:
Inside of TheCrown:
liveforphysics
100 TW
dh-paule said:
Its true that if you use the correct sized spokes you can forget about them, but the correct size doesn't happen to be the big thick (making them stiff) low strength spokes that typically come with hubmotors. If you want to forget about wheel/spoke issues, you need a thin butted quality spoke like sapim or DT, stretched to extremely high tension. Then the wheel distributes loads effectively over a large area and tends not to fail.
Hmmm, they have these big deep slots, but didn't bother filling them up..
Bit strange, i don't get why they designed it as such.
Nonetheless, a wider motor is always better. Less copper wasted at the edges and all.
Here's the windings of my 5303, for comparison.
Bit strange, i don't get why they designed it as such.
Nonetheless, a wider motor is always better. Less copper wasted at the edges and all.
Here's the windings of my 5303, for comparison.
RoughRider
100 W
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i must agree with neptronix...there is so much unused slot space left on this picture of the TC stator...looks like 15% unused slot
i hope that it is because this pictures shows the very first prototype and that the production batch will have more copper in it and the slots will be filled completly
i cant imagine that Crystalyte will not use the whole slot...that would be stupid
i hope that it is because this pictures shows the very first prototype and that the production batch will have more copper in it and the slots will be filled completly
i cant imagine that Crystalyte will not use the whole slot...that would be stupid
hi-powercycles
100 W
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7 left.
Trackman417
10 kW
hi-powercycles said:Inside of TheCrown:
For $700 there will be a lot more copper in those teeth right? I don't really like the idea that I can poke objects the size of a pencil through %75 of those holes.
Did kenny have a hard time getting the lady's at the factory to wind these motors?
Can you also get a close up of the lams?
litespeed
100 kW
hi-powercycles said:
Great looking motor but for 3 hundred more than the 4065 make me wonder if it's 75% better. Again, I can't wait to here how this performs......might make we rethink my position on the cost.
Tom
Kepler
10 MW
Its a bit hard to tell in the pictures but can the side covers be removed without unlacing the wheel?
steveo
100 kW
Id love to see this against the crow motor
Be interesting to see the deeper slot windings vs the cro
Imo the x54 is a very solid motor, incredable performance, but i think this motor will mot have quite the same torque as a x54
But then again, ive only every tried a x54
Steveo
Be interesting to see the deeper slot windings vs the cro
Imo the x54 is a very solid motor, incredable performance, but i think this motor will mot have quite the same torque as a x54
But then again, ive only every tried a x54
Steveo
RoughRider
100 W
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@Kepler
yes, you can remove the sidecovers without unlacing the wheel
@steveo
according to Kenny TheCrown has more torque than a X5400
yes, you can remove the sidecovers without unlacing the wheel
@steveo
according to Kenny TheCrown has more torque than a X5400
litespeed
100 kW
neptronix said:erm, where can you buy a 4065 for 300 less?
Direct from Kenny!
Tom
Rodney64
100 kW
Email sent
hjns
100 kW
Interesting. Looking forwards to see how this motor performs. Currently, my cromotor at 20S lipo does not lack in torque or speed, but in summer it needs better heat control, limiting me via the CAv3 when climbing mountains for more than 20 minutes.
Therefore, I am most interested in seeing how this "TheCrown" will perform in terms of time before overheating.
Therefore, I am most interested in seeing how this "TheCrown" will perform in terms of time before overheating.
Rodney64
100 kW
hjns said:
Yes I'm interested too
johnrobholmes
10 MW
[snobby wheel builder opinion, take with a grain of salt]
Slotted spoke holes for retention, high speeds, 12ga spokes mated to bicycle rims going 60mph. :?
Design a big motor and then use a SLOTTED hole on the same plane as the spoke force? I sure hope the outer flange is steel to prevent stress fracturing, aluminum doesn't like repeated loading and unloading. Can't say I am a fan of having an easy exit point for the spoke head, first person that hits a pothole at 60mph will be test dummy on rim flex VS slot length. With 12 ga spokes there just isn't enough tension with a bicycle rim to keep them under load during impacts. I certainly hope that there will be no issues, but going with such a design is a very bold move IMO.
I may be building up a wheelset with this hub, I was contacted in the last few days about it. My 11/12 butted spokes may give a better fitment unless Xlyte brought their tolerance down to mate tightly with 12ga spokes. I will be interested to actually build up the wheel and get some hands on it. Personally I would love to see Kenny start offering 2.3mm spoke holes and keep with regular flanges or straight pull designs. I made a jig just for HS hubs to redrill them for proper sized spokes with bicycle rims. On the next one we are going to try an asymmetrical pattern to reduce the spoke angles and allow for stronger bicycle rims with 13/14 butted spokes. Its cheaper than tooling up for a new rim.
On the plus side I do like how the spoke spacing is asymmetrical to reduce the insertion angle at the rim. It would be great if all large hubmotors were offered with 72 2.3mm holes to allow for similar patterns. We can always drill the hubs for larger spokes. We can't put material back for regular spokes.
I sent Kenny an email asking to offer this motor with regular flanges. IMO it would make it a more valuable and reliable wheel motor.
[/snobby rant]
Slotted spoke holes for retention, high speeds, 12ga spokes mated to bicycle rims going 60mph. :?
Design a big motor and then use a SLOTTED hole on the same plane as the spoke force? I sure hope the outer flange is steel to prevent stress fracturing, aluminum doesn't like repeated loading and unloading. Can't say I am a fan of having an easy exit point for the spoke head, first person that hits a pothole at 60mph will be test dummy on rim flex VS slot length. With 12 ga spokes there just isn't enough tension with a bicycle rim to keep them under load during impacts. I certainly hope that there will be no issues, but going with such a design is a very bold move IMO.
I may be building up a wheelset with this hub, I was contacted in the last few days about it. My 11/12 butted spokes may give a better fitment unless Xlyte brought their tolerance down to mate tightly with 12ga spokes. I will be interested to actually build up the wheel and get some hands on it. Personally I would love to see Kenny start offering 2.3mm spoke holes and keep with regular flanges or straight pull designs. I made a jig just for HS hubs to redrill them for proper sized spokes with bicycle rims. On the next one we are going to try an asymmetrical pattern to reduce the spoke angles and allow for stronger bicycle rims with 13/14 butted spokes. Its cheaper than tooling up for a new rim.
On the plus side I do like how the spoke spacing is asymmetrical to reduce the insertion angle at the rim. It would be great if all large hubmotors were offered with 72 2.3mm holes to allow for similar patterns. We can always drill the hubs for larger spokes. We can't put material back for regular spokes.
I sent Kenny an email asking to offer this motor with regular flanges. IMO it would make it a more valuable and reliable wheel motor.
[/snobby rant]
MadRhino
100 GW
It would have more torque than the X54 for the same power setup, because of its light weight and large diameter. Yet, the big X54 sure can be fed much more power.RoughRider said:
+1johnrobholmes said:
Chalo
100 TW
dh-paule said:
While you are right that spoke breakage can be basically eliminated, it's not true that thicker spokes are less likely to break in a properly built wheel. Spokes can be so small that they become very difficult to build with before they display any elevated risk of breakage. Too-thick spokes, on the other hand, cause other wheel reliability problems-- chronic spoke loosening and rim cracking. Poor quality spokes, or those that are not adequately stress-relieved at the time the wheel is built, are the spokes most subject to repeated breakage.
I have two bikes with 2.0/1.5mm spokes and one with 1.8/1.6mm, which I have ridden extensively (thousands of miles each) at body weights between my current approximately 150kg and almost 200kg. Not one of these three bikes has ever broken a spoke. Luke "liveforphysics" recently got a wheel built with 1.8/1.4mm spokes; I suppose in due course we'll see how it works out for him.
But both of us are discussing normal bike wheels, which are a good deal more reliable than wheels built on hub motors. Hub motors have a few things stacked against them. First, they usually have thin steel flanges, which are plenty strong, but harsh to the spoke elbows. Second, the large diameter of a hub motor tends to cause extreme insertion angles to the rim, and that in turn predisposes spokes to break at the threaded end. On top of these things, hub motors usually have really narrow spacing between flanges, which gives side loads on the wheel a lot more leverage by which to fluctuate spoke tension. All else equal, these things make the spokes of a hub motor wheel much more breakage-prone than spokes in a normal bicycle wheel.
Take into account that many Chinese hub motors arrive prebuilt with nasty cheap super-thick spokes, hastily assembled and haphazardly tensioned, and it's easy to see why spoke breakage is a familiar subject among the members of this forum.
I have had almost perfect reliability from my normal bike wheels, but my hub motor wheels have suffered broken spokes before-- sometimes more than once in the same wheel.
pchen92
100 W
pchen92 said:
CORBINFIBER
100 W
nice design,,, simple and clean,,, stepped up and evolved too
RoughRider
100 W
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- May 17, 2009
- Messages
- 208
i dont think there will be any big issues with the spokes or the spoke holes...
Crystalyte tested this design very carefully and there was no issue with the spokes or the spoke holes...
the rotor is made out of aluminum...and i dont think there will be some issues about it...
we will see who is right...
John you are right about the angle of the spokes at the rim...makes it much easier to lace the motor
right now i am building a bike setup with a 72V battery and a 72V crystalyte controller...just to test this baby
i am very very curious about TheCrown...still cant belive that it is only 9kg
cant wait to get this motor in my hands...and in the bike...
Crystalyte tested this design very carefully and there was no issue with the spokes or the spoke holes...
the rotor is made out of aluminum...and i dont think there will be some issues about it...
we will see who is right...
John you are right about the angle of the spokes at the rim...makes it much easier to lace the motor
right now i am building a bike setup with a 72V battery and a 72V crystalyte controller...just to test this baby
i am very very curious about TheCrown...still cant belive that it is only 9kg
cant wait to get this motor in my hands...and in the bike...
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