Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

[d8veh]

Nothing is as simple as it seems. The 328rpm GBK100CST will be too fast for what you want. It spins to over 40 km/h, and becomes inefficient below 25 km/hr. The 201 rpm will give you 25km/hr, although if you want a bit more, you can get a 20% increase in speed and power if you use 12S lipos for your battery, which makes it much perkier. You need to figure out how to use lipos properly before going down that route.

You don't have to worry about expensive torque sensors and CA. You'll find the normal 3 levels of PAS from the LED panel perfectly adequate.

It fits OK in a 135mm wide frame.

From BMSBattery, you can get a 260 rpm Q100H in black which will give the speed you want, but it doesn't have the spline for cassette gears, so your only option is a seven-speed DNP free-wheel set with 11T top gear.

There's not much advantage in getting a bare motor and building your own wheel. It's easier to get their ready-built ones, although you'll have to dish it a bit.

The other bits you might want to get are: a torque arm and hidden wire break sensors if you have cable brakes and you want to keep your present levers.

If you order from BMSB, it's worth getting their spoke key and maybe their BB tool. They have better controllers and a bigger choice of batteries than GBK, but GBK have a better reputation for helpfulness. It's Chinese new year now, so don't be surprised if you don't hear anything from any of them for at least a week.

 

[samsavvas]

Thanks d8veh,

Very helpful reply - I appreciate it. I suppose that if I used the slower speed motor in the 20" wheel I'd also retain a bit of hill-climbing capability. I don't climb many hills but it would be useful occasionally.
I'll give the 'simple PAS' approach a go I think. May ask Cellman if he'll build me a custom 36V battery - the frame is a Moulton TSR and doesn't have the usual mounting points.

Thanks again,

Savvas.

 

[d8veh]

If you have a 20" wheel, it's a different situation. A 328 rpm Q100CST will be perfect at approximately 30 km/h.

If you're lucky, you might be able to fit a pair of 5s or 6S 5000maH packs in one of these, or two of them for 10aH.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triangular-Bike-Cycle-Frame-Bag-Zipped-Triangle-Corner-Bicycle-Storage-Pouch-UK-/360697938285?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&hash=item53fb45c16d

 

[samsavvas]

If you have a 20" wheel, it's a different situation. A 328 rpm Q100CST will be perfect at approximately 30 km/h.

Thanks for this confirmation mate. One or two more questions please:
1. Which controller would you recommend for this motor? The BMS recommendations seem a bit confusing. I think I've read a comment somewhere (perhaps from you over at Pedelec) that one they recommend won't actually work. Also there is a 'K series' which I understand would be OK. The BMS site says recommends "S06P, S06S or LSW-675 ". I'll be using 36V, about 12ah Ping battery, PAS + throttle.

2. I see the BMS illustration of the Q100CST wheel looks radially spoked. Is this adequate? What spoking pattern would work best in a 20" rim?

thanks,

Savvas.

 

[d8veh]

The small Q series motors don't work well sensorless, so that rules out the S06P and LSW-675. They all definitely work with the KU63 and KU65, and should work with the S06S; however, I haven't personally tried one yet. I'd get both the KU65 and the S06S. Try the S06S, and if it's good, keep the KU65 as a spare or sell it on Ebay to get more than your money back.

I do my 20" wheels one-cross, but radial will probably be OK because a Q100 is not a torque-monster. If it does give problems, you can always buy some spokes and re-lace it.

Ping batteries are really good quality, but too heavy for for a build like yours. That's if you could find a place to put it.

 

[Khumarahn]

Is it possible to setup a controller for the high speed Q100 so that it turns on only after say 12mph, and stops if PAS is silent or brake is pulled? There would be no need for any controls/displays on the handlebars...

 

[d8veh]

Not unless you want to program a microproceesor. You can do it yourself with a throttle, of course.

 

[Khumarahn]

you say, program a microprocessor... does anybody do that? is there some manual? can it be done with s06p/s06s?

Soldering out a chip, modifying something like C code, flashing it, and soldering chip back looks doable...

 

[d8veh]

You'd have to use an external microprocessor like a PICaxe or Arduino. You'd need to read the frequency of pulse from a standard cycle computer wheel-speed sensor, compute the speed and then switch an output to go high or low depending on the speed. You then connect that output to the high or low brake cut-off connector on the controller.

 

[toniovelo]

I'm testing actually the Q100 201rpm 36v in 48v it's good torque with 35 km/h. I want a little more speed and i can't change my li ion battery.

Can you give me and compare me please the difference beetween q100 201 rpm 24v and q100 201 rpm 36v with 48v battery please??? I can get few km/h and get same torque or not? Thanks

 

[eMax]

Lots of great info in this thread. I am new to the Q100. Recently built up my girlfriends bike with a Q100H rear running a 36v 11ah battery at 15a from BMS Battery. Its not a speed machine (good for around 35km/h I believe) but the motor in winding 201 has enough torque to get up a pretty serious grade hill!

 

[majornelson]

Nice build! Is the controller built into the battery box on the rear? Also, is the battery box standard from BMS?

 

[eMax]

Nice build! Is the controller built into the battery box on the rear? Also, is the battery box standard from BMS?

Yes mate, controller is in the battery case. Makes it a clean install. I find this style of battery is mountable in many positions and flexible to work with. Here is the product

http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/679-bottle-ebike-battery.html

 

[toniovelo]

Nice build! Is it the Q100H really? The Q100H is in black color normally and old Q100 in grey color, no?

 

[fourbanger]

I've been looking at that particular battery a lot lately. Can't quite seem to figure out how they manage to cram a s/w controller + 52 (if my math is right) cells in there though.

What would happen if you wired that battery with internal controller to bbs0x or magic pie or some such thing with it's own internal controller I wonder?

 

[eMax]

I've been looking at that particular battery a lot lately. Can't quite seem to figure out how they manage to cram a s/w controller + 52 (if my math is right) cells in there though.

What would happen if you wired that battery with internal controller to bbs0x or magic pie or some such thing with it's own internal controller I wonder?

I can open up if I get time in next few weeks and have a look if you like. 52 seems a bit high though should be 2900mah cells.

 

[gedong]

actually, the controller is inside the discharging port at the back end of the battery base..
i've few picture for your reference..




i guess this case would fit 60 x 18650 battery (10P6S) if you takeout BMS and USB function.

 

[chas58]

Lots of great info in this thread. I am new to the Q100. Recently built up my girlfriends bike with a Q100H rear running a 36v 11ah battery at 15a from BMS Battery. Its not a speed machine (good for around 35km/h I believe) but the motor in winding 201 has enough torque to get up a pretty serious grade hill!

That is really a good looking set up you have there. Well done!

 

[chas58]

D8veh, you are constantly a wealth of information. A question:

If you order from BMSB... They have better controllers and a bigger choice of batteries than GBK, but GBK have a better reputation for helpfulness.

why do you say that about the controllers?
I have gone through two controllers from GBK. It seems that running them for an hour at full throttle wasn't good on them (or maybe I did something else it didn't like). Maybe they were getting too much heat in my saddle bag. So I took it out and mounted it to a heat sink and fresh air. So far so good. I didn't think they were getting that hot, but something happened. I probably should get a decent controller from EM3ev though. are the BMS controllers any better?
One nice thing about GBK, you can buy a few inexpensive parts for them and pay reasonable shipping. with BMS their large minimum shipping price makes small purchases impractical.


As for the comment "There's not much advantage in getting a bare motor and building your own wheel. It's easier to get their ready-built ones, although you'll have to dish it a bit." I could go either way (well, actually I did do both).
The problems with a chinese wheel:
1) shipping something as large as a wheel costs a fortune, and negates much of any savings
2) the Chinese wheel started to come unlaced after a few trips leaving me stranded (not uncommon)
3) The Chinese wheel was dished wrong, and had to be redished anyway. (not uncommon)

Most of this I knew from your helpful advice, so I wasn’t surprised. But with all that hassle, I figured I would save the shipping costs, pick out a good rim that matched my front wheel and bike, and have it built locally since the Chinese wheel had to be rebuilt anyway. But the Chinese wheel worked fine once I got the kinks worked out.

 

[chas58]

I've been looking at that particular battery a lot lately. Can't quite seem to figure out how they manage to cram a s/w controller + 52 (if my math is right) cells in there though.

What would happen if you wired that battery with internal controller to bbs0x or magic pie or some such thing with it's own internal controller I wonder?

I can open up if I get time in next few weeks and have a look if you like. 52 seems a bit high though should be 2900mah cells.

Thanks for the pictures!

Paul at EM3 spent months figuring out how to use that case with a good BMS, and a few months after he developed something BMS goes and sells something similar with cheaper batteries. Go figure.

Paul's frame mounted battery packs are more expensive, but the batteries are better, and customer service is much better!

 

[d8veh]

If you order from BMSB... They have better controllers and a bigger choice of batteries than GBK, but GBK have a better reputation for helpfulness.

why do you say that about the controllers?
I probably should get a decent controller from EM3ev though. are the BMS controllers any better?

The BMSB S12S and S06S controllers are very nice, and have adjustment of LVC and current. If you want an electric moped, the Em3ev controllers might be better, but if you want to pedal, those BMSB ones take some beating. They can also switch between current control and speed control for the PAS.

 

[eMax]

Thanks for the pictures!

Paul at EM3 spent months figuring out how to use that case with a good BMS, and a few months after he developed something BMS goes and sells something similar with cheaper batteries. Go figure.

Paul's frame mounted battery packs are more expensive, but the batteries are better, and customer service is much better!

Don't get me wrong, Paul does have a good thing going. But this style of battery has been widely available from the major Chinese suppliers for a long time. Yes, he uses good Samsung cells (29E I believe) but BMS Battery also have the Panasonic cells available which are arguably better. The BMS which EM3V sells are also widely available.

I have received good service from both suppliers.

 

[chas58]

My experience with BMSB is a bit different. It was hard to get good data on the batteries and they always seem a bit hesitant to answer questions that are not directly on the web site.

For a small battery, the C rate is pretty important. Often their batteries are 1C (although that has changed a bit over time), but they don’t really tell you that. Paul has great technical data already posted, so you don’t have to dig for it and then try to fill in the holes. I can tell what I am getting with EM3ev, but with BMSB, its never really clear to me.

I don’t think they have a light powerful 3C battery like the 29e (3C 18650), but if you find what you want at BMSB, great!

Good info about the controllers. Too bad they charge $50 for shipping a small $20 controller. That is insane.

 

[TheBeastie]

D8veh, you are constantly a wealth of information.

As for the comment "There's not much advantage in getting a bare motor and building your own wheel. It's easier to get their ready-built ones, although you'll have to dish it a bit." I could go either way (well, actually I did do both).
The problems with a chinese wheel:
1) shipping something as large as a wheel costs a fortune, and negates much of any savings
2) the Chinese wheel started to come unlaced after a few trips leaving me stranded (not uncommon)
3) The Chinese wheel was dished wrong, and had to be redished anyway. (not uncommon)

Most of this I knew from your helpful advice, so I wasn’t surprised. But with all that hassle, I figured I would save the shipping costs, pick out a good rim that matched my front wheel and bike, and have it built locally since the Chinese wheel had to be rebuilt anyway. But the Chinese wheel worked fine once I got the kinks worked out.

I completely agree on BMSB wheel builds being just thrown together, I have ordered 2 wheel builds years apart and they were just really ordinary, I think they would be better off attaching a sticky note to wheels saying "must be professionally trued/broken in before use". I honestly believe they just don't really like the wheel building part of the business and if anything want to secretly punish people who use it.
I think BMSB put more of their real pride into battery pack building. And they are good for parts.

 

[docnjoj]

I recently had a Chines Q100 wheel build (20") fail in less than a mile. I will never again order a spoked wheel online. Since I must pay the bike shop to true them anyways, I just order spokes and assemble the wheel 1X. The cost is about the same as the postage, to make my own, and the quality is tons better.
Just sayin".
otherDoc