CYC PHOTON

Atak_Snajpera said:
It would be easier if they just used old-fashioned screws instead of using stupid ideas from smartphone industry.
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I believe CYC is using threaded fasteners in some places - a single screw holds the controller into the motor casing, as well as four holding the controller and motor core together (with a paper or rubber gasket in between). For the secondary gear, it appears there's a threaded pin wrench ring holding the assembly together, similar to the one holding the chainring assembly in place.

CYC might also be using liquid gasket(s), similar to what's used in other industries (automotive and marine engines, for example), that do a better job on complex and/or narrow-edged component joints.

I wish I could attach the leaked FCC Bluetooth certification PDFs that have internal and external photos, so you could judge for yourself how the motor is assembled. I can't remember where I found them - a forum post somewhere ...

Here are a few photos I snipped from the PDFs, that might help clarify things - the first is of the right side of the motor, showing the outer secondary gear pin ring, as well as the inner chainring pin ring (without the chainring). Below is the single controller screw hole:

Capture1.PNG
The next is with the chainring pin ring removed (and shown upper-right (reversed)), as well as some of the mechanicals within. Notice that there's an inner bearing (or clutch?) that's removable without unthreading the outer pin ring:

Capture2.PNG
Seeing this level of disassembly makes me hope that at least some D.I.Y. regreasing is not out of the question. Here's a side view of the controller/motor core junction, showing some form of gasket material:

Capture3.PNG
Here's one more photo, showing more of the innards and screw locations:

Capture4.PNG
The controller is, I think, normally potted but isn't in this case - possibly related to the certification process. Within the secondary gear casing (shown on the left) there appears to be a sealed outer bearing that probably doesn't require greasing. Nothing magical, and to me vaguely similar to the Bafang BBS series - just more compact and refined.

One component I've not been able to decypher is the primary gear (equivalent to Bafang's clutched nylon gear). I see the pinion shaft (shown lower left) and maybe the outer ring (shown upper center), but where's the clutch? Maybe the one-way clutch requirement is being done by that other, bigger (sprag?) bearing in the second photo.

I may take a crack at disassembling my second motor before it's installed - for curiosity's sake.

"Because its glued shut" may be a misleading choice of words from the pedelecs poster, and not the impression I get from the above photos, but I have yet to personally disassemble one of these motors.
 
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Atak_Snajpera said:
Based on leaked PDF is PHOTON easy to do basic maintenance tasks like regreasing/inspection of gears?
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Dunno. I'm just a shade-tree (and sometimes hamfisted) mechanic. I've opened up the Bafang BBS motors (regrease and component replacement) and based on those dives (and the Photon photos) I really don't see any particular nasty gotchas.

Hands-on experience is needed. Also, I don't have a quality, adjustable pin wrench - just the chintzy one supplied with the motor. But I've no objections to buying tools.
 
raylo32 said:
Not just curiosity... that would save a bunch more of us from having to re-invent the wheel. Take some good pics and post the tools you use.
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Will do - but sorry, no videos :eek:

And, as of today that motor still hasn't shipped.
 
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ncmired said:
Thanks much - yep, those are the ones.
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I can see some damage or lighter marks on the edges of one of the controller part of the casing. Maybe that has sealant (rather than adhesive) to help with sealing.

The pictures also show what I assume is the torque sensor PCB, with antenna highlighted. How do these things work? How are they powered, and where do they measure strain?
 
hindesite said:
I can see some damage or lighter marks on the edges of one of the controller part of the casing. Maybe that has sealant (rather than adhesive) to help with sealing.

The pictures also show what I assume is the torque sensor PCB, with antenna highlighted. How do these things work? How are they powered, and where do they measure strain?
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It's a pity the photos are low resolution - maybe the PDF was crunched to reduce the file size.

I dunno how the torque sensing works - glad it works so well though. I've skimmed over some docs describing various methods - this one's a bit different as the spindle is solid. I think that's an abandoned BlueTooth PCB etched antenna - AFAIK the active antenna is now in the speed sensor so it could transmit & receive a stronger signal.

Mongo only pawn in game of life e-bikes.
 
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ncmired said:
It's a pity the photos are low resolution - maybe the PDF was crunched to reduce the file size.

I dunno how the torque sensing works - glad it works so well though. I've skimmed over some docs describing various methods - this one's a bit different as the spindle is solid. I think that's an abandoned BlueTooth PCB etched antenna - AFAIK the active antenna is now in the speed sensor so it could transmit & receive a stronger signal.

Mongo only pawn in the game of life e-bikes.
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The ring shaped PCB is a wireless power transmitter, that is what the antenna is probably for. The square SOC is a Maxic MT5811 which is a Qi standard low power transmitter. There's datasheets available for that. I assume the antenna is highlighted because that's of interest to FCC.

BTW for scale, that Maxic package is 6x6mm, pretty small. Interestingly the other chip is obscured by tape in some of the images and not identifiable in the others.

I'm not seeing the corresponding receiver and sensor components though which I assume are coupled to the pedal shaft.
 
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I wonder now how much more powerful is this motor vs the TSDZ2 because after just fitting the kit and 52v a couple of days ago and taking the Bosch out today the 50 Nm Gen I Bosch is notably more powerful on steep hills. + it hardly even gets luke warm, the TSDZ2 will be very hot. The Bosch is much more efficient.

It's safe to say then that the 80 Nm quoted figure for the TSDZ2 is a a downright lie.

Would be hard to trust any torque claim from any diy kit now.
 
Expensive motor. Good performance though, does it get hot ?

I wonder what it's like to pedal without power, that's important to me.
 
Interesting video. His comments about the on/off nature of the assist are exactly what I see with my X1 Pro Gen 2. Now, some of that may be due to the BAC controller and programming. This is more problematic on the trails but still not ideal on the road. This app shown in this video is the BAC version just like my X1 so I assume that is what we have here. I am hoping that the new X6 controller in the Photon and in the newer versions of the other CYC motors has this sorted out to have smoother and more seamless assist behavior. I mean if the OSF guys can do it for TSDZ2 one would think that CYC should also be capable.

Atak_Snajpera said:
Unrestricted photon should be almost as good as CYC STEALTH
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raylo32 said:
Interesting video. His comments about the on/off nature of the assist are exactly what I see with my X1 Pro Gen 2. Now, some of that may be due to the BAC controller and programming. This is more problematic on the trails but still not ideal on the road. This app shown in this video is the BAC version just like my X1 so I assume that is what we have here. I am hoping that the new X6 controller in the Photon and in the newer versions of the other CYC motors has this sorted out to have smoother and more seamless assist behavior. I mean if the OSF guys can do it for TSDZ2 one would think that CYC should also be capable.
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Try this

Code: 
PEDAL SPEED MAP END = 150 RPM
PEDAL SPEED MAP END = 0.1 PPR
TORQUE SENSOR GAIN = 12 Nm/Volts
PEDALEC POWER GAIN = 5
PEDALEC DEADBAND TORQUE = 1

PEDALEC POSITIVE MOTORING TORQUE RAMP = 1000ms
PEDALEC NEGATIVE MOTORING TORQUE RAMP = 1000ms
 
Watching again, it's quite loud.

Yes, it seems like they need to fine tune the torque sensing system a bit. Think it's overkill for my needs and wallet lol and it's just too loud.

I wonder how the Photon will compare to it and to the TSDZ2.
 
o00scorpion00o said:
Watching again, it's quite loud.

Yes, it seems like they need to fine tune the torque sensing system a bit. Think it's overkill for my needs and wallet lol and it's just too loud.

I wonder how the Photon will compare to it and to the TSDZ2.
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My video when I had ASI BAC855 with eggrider v2 display
 
Yikes, 950 USD for photon + 23% vat = 1,065 Euro's excluding import duty and courier fees, wow, the Government really rip people off here. That's 1,167 USD.

Think I'll be trying the open source firmware for the TSDZ2 first lol.
 
o00scorpion00o said:
Yikes, 950 USD for photon + 23% vat = 1,065 Euro's excluding import duty and courier fees, wow, the Government really rip people off here. That's 1,167 USD.

Think I'll be trying the open source firmware for the TSDZ2 first lol.
Click to expand...
Bosch or Brose are not cheaper neither. ~1000 euro (if you add shipping costs)

Motor Brose S Mag vertical | Biketec Europe GmbH

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