E-Bike cop proof?

[bigbore]

Anyway if a cop does pull you over for speeding what are the chances that they will know anything about ebikes or the laws applicable to them anyway. When I say ebikes I'm referring to the conversion kits out there not the scooter style bikes. I'd rather avoid those scooter type ebikes because I imagine they are more prone to being hassled because they look more like a scooter or motorcycle than a regular bicycle with a motor kit installed.

Exactly what you said. One year ago I was got on a public road by a cop on my unregistered chinese e-scooter and he knew very well the street code. The fine to drive an unregistered e-scooter is about €1700,00 equal to $2450,00 USD and the e-scooter had to be confiscated, fortunately he let me go home but then I bought a registered e-scooter that I've been using right now.
Now I'm getting bored of going around at 40km/h (24mph) and I want to know if I can build a downhill e-bike cop proof because they can confiscate an e-bike if not respect the laws.

 

[bigbore]

A hidden three way switch would insinuate a cop would pull you over then take your bike on a test ride just to see how powerful it is.

That's exactly the scenario I'm thinking about. Once the jumper is pulled off and hidden in my trouser pocket the cop will go at the grand mother speed and I need only to pedal while riding fast so I can say I was riding at that speed just with my legs :lol:

I noticed someone here on the sphere selling "250 watt" stickers and i bought a sheet of em and put them on all my hub motors just in case. It was like 5 bucks for sheet of them and i considered it good insurance.

I can say "look its only 250 watts im just in great bicycle shape and I pedal assist ALOT"

My rational is a cop is not going to waste his time beyond just looking over the bike to see if it looks legal or not.

The 250W sticker is a very good idea!

 

[gogo]

Police ebike dyno -coming to a municipality near you soon!

http://www.dynostar.com/products/showproducts.asp?articleid=56&tl2id=1

 

[jaylightning76]

I live in Port Moody BC Canada and one day I was riding in the middle of the lane going 70 km/h in the middle of a line of cars. Coming the other way was a marked police car and when I saw him I got that feeling in my stomach like oh shit im in trouble now. The cop hit his lights and turned around. I pulled over and was expecting a stern lecture and maybe even losing my bike. Instead the cop said he was amazed that a bike could go that fast and he said it was the coolest thing hes seen in a while. Now I just wave at the cops when I pass them and have never had a problem. I really hope that things stay this way for a long time. I think as long as you ride courteously and signal for turns and wear a good helmet most of the time you will be ok.

 

[wasp]

15000 km in 2 years and I have never been caught...I mean pulled over
I have talked with many and get noticed sometimes but as long as your
Not being a dick they leave you alone
And for regestering?..lmfao I ain't no sheep
Don't be afraid just ride responsibly...most of the time.

 

[Ykick]

Police ebike dyno -coming to a municipality near you soon!

http://www.dynostar.com/products/showproducts.asp?articleid=56&tl2id=1

"...designed for testing mopeds and scooters." I can see that because many gas scooter riders will cheat with bigger engines in 50cc platforms but I don't see this device being marketed for converted bicycle testing. Not yet, anyway...

I've had a few NYPD encounters but nothing about the bike or it's technology. One time an officer asked if that was a battery bike, I said yeah, "sorta electronic transmission" and that was that. I think as long as you operate no more than the upper human performance level and don't be a jackass - majority of police will have better things to do.

 

[skeetab5780]

haha i can see it now...all of the Endless-Sphere members will be like "but the sticker on my motor says 250watts!!!"

then the cop dyno's you at 5hp and they impound your bicycle

 

[liveforphysics]

haha i can see it now...all of the Endless-Sphere members will be like "but the sticker on my motor says 250watts!!!"

then the cop dyno's you at 5hp and they impound your bicycle

I would LOVE to see a cop that can operate a dyno.

 

[neptronix]

I looked at the specs of the dyno, and it can only handle 34hp.

I see a challenge.

 

[amberwolf]

In parts of Arizona the cops can be a real pain (big egos). I was just talking to a guy tonight on a gasser that I passed while riding my motorcycle. He told me that he has been stopped in Mesa 4 or five times and told that he had to register it as a moped and they threatened to give him big fines and confiscate his bike. I personally have been paced by the police but have not yet been pulled over(fingers crossed). I will be linking up with this guy again. I told him to get a copy of the federal law and keep it with him.

The federal CPSC stuff only affects manufacturers making premade ebikes; local jurisdictions define things however they want to for actual road use. In AZ's case, the state law is under 50cc engine size, and operated at less than 20MPH. If he's meeting both of those, then his assist is still bicycle-class, and any tickets they write will be thrown out of court.

If he's going faster than 20, or his engine is bigger, then he's screwed, and would probably get the big three: ticket for no license (unless he has an M-class), registration, or insurance. Since you cannot register a bicycle at all, period, in any city in the valley AFAIK, nor with the state, since it is not a motor vehicle and doesnt' have a VIN/etc., then he can never meet the registration requirement, and thus cannot ride the bike on any public road, if he loses the case. At least, not until he either slows down or gets a smaller engine or both, depending on which one caused the ticketing.


If he was riding an ebike instead of a gasser, they would probably never bother him, if he is at reasonable speeds and obeying the rest of the rules of the road, or at least not doing anything overtly attention-drawing.

 

[kafka-cloud]

Well,

I put the limiter to 32km/h o my commuter. I don't want to be cop safe. 32km/h is sufficient for my need. I know that if I could go sometimes a little faster It could be beneficial when going downhill...

However, if ever you are in an accident either with a car, bike, pedestrian image the potential liability if you are using an uninsure vehicule which is operating outside of the legal norms... This gives me enough chills to limits the speed and not worry.

Cheers

 

[Green Machine]

Well,
However, if ever you are in an accident either with a car, bike, pedestrian image the potential liability if you are using an uninsure vehicule which is operating outside of the legal norms... This gives me enough chills to limits the speed and not worry.

Cheers

...that

 

[karma]

Here is what I read in the FAQ:

""""""""""""
How Fast ?
According to the law in ONTARIO, CANADA ! , an electric assist bicycle should not propel you over 20 mph ( 32 km/h ).

But, depending on your location, your needs, your situation, and good common sense, speeds of up to 40 mph + ( 65 Km/h ) can be achieved !
""""""""""""

In my location e-bikes must go lower 25km/h (15,5mph) when assisted by the motor and the driver must pedal if he wants to be assisted by the motor or in other words the motor must assist the driver only if he is pedaling and must stop the assistance at the speed of 25km/h.

That said I would like to know if anybody had realized a dual mode e-bike.
A standard mode running within laws in case you are catched by the cops and a "turbo" mode with a speed of 65 Km/h. The standard mode must be switched very quickly and not to be reversed in case you are got by the cops while running a "little fast".

i have a dual setup with a simple switch. i have no problems with police. when i see them i slow down as a courtesy
anyone flying around doing 40mph without looking for the police earns a fine and i would be more than happy to laugh as i pass by doing 20mph

[youtube]tOfBt8kfATc[/youtube]

i have two speeds. illegal!! and take my bike illegal!!

 

[MadRhino]

i have two speeds. illegal!! and take my bike illegal!!

I have 3 speed, but I guess they could be qualified: Illegal, very illegal, extremely illegal.

 

[Green Machine]

Did somebody already say radar detector? How about radar jammer?

 

[bigbore]

My programmable controllers from Lyen all have 3 speed switch capability. All I would need to do is hide that 3-way switch. Then you can have grandma speed, normal turbo, and super turbo. The super turbo would be for outrunning the cops.

That could be good but instead of a switch I would prefer a jumper that you can unplug and put in your pocket.
The programmable controller from Lyen could be programmed to drive the motor only if the rider is pedaling (in standard mode)?

No problem. You'd just give up the third option. Setting #2 is the default for when there is no switch, so you program that to grandma speed, and your jumper makes the connection to 1 or 3 for which you program to full. I'd just program 1 AND 3 to full, so whatever connection I made with my jumper would be correct. Pull it and it reverts to default.

The better option would be to just move to Costa Rica, which has no rules yet. It's legally a bicycle and the limit is the posted speed limit.

BAD NEWS
The first feature an e-bike must have to be legal on European public roads can't be done.
The street code defines an e-bike like a "normal bike with assisted pedaling". The motor must assist the rider while he's pedaling but can't substitute the rider otherwise the bike is like a scooter and must be registered, insured etc ...

I got in contact with Lyen and it seems that this mandatory feature can't be done with the controller he sells. It seems the throttle will drive the motor also if the pedals are not spinning. The spinning pedals would be sensed with a PAS.
Anybody have a good idea about it?

 

[Alan B]

BAD NEWS
The first feature an e-bike must have to be legal on European public roads can't be done.
The street code defines an e-bike like a "normal bike with assisted pedaling". The motor must assist the rider while he's pedaling but can't substitute the rider otherwise the bike is like a scooter and must be registered, insured etc ...

I got in contact with Lyen and it seems that this mandatory feature can't be done with the controller he sells. It seems the throttle will drive the motor also if the pedals are not spinning. The spinning pedals would be sensed with a PAS.
Anybody have a good idea about it?

If you need pedal sensing with a standard controller, you could do this:

Put a magnet on the crank and a reed switch or hall switch to "sense" pedal rotation from the frame,

Make a simple circuit that stretches out the crank pulse and clamps the throttle off if no pedaling for say 3 seconds or so. Then if you stop pedaling the motor will shut off. The throttle is still the control element, but the pedaling enables it.

The circuit could be pretty simple, a dual 555 or a little 8 pin micro would do it. Run the throttle cable through the board, borrow throttle 5V power. Essentially convert the pedal pulse to a short "reset" pulse and reset a longer timer that drives the throttle shorting transistor, turning throttle off after no pedaling for a few seconds.

 

[dirtyginge]

ok, here are some "ideas"

a...magnetic reed switch on the handlebars, in the grips, and a magnet in your glove....take away the glove, employ the limiting mode, could auto-engage the lyen 3 speed switch

b...Lyen also sells a voltage out PAS.tried and tested it, working great...now if the voltage of that powered a transistor, so using a diode to drop the voltage from 1 to 0v, if the PAS voltage is above 0V, transistor on, throttle enable, PAS 0V, throttle line off......then you only have throttle if the pedals are turning

hope this helps

 

[John in CR]

Previously I forgot to bring up a great way to make your bike "cop proof". Search out the cops and talk to them. When you find those who aren't dicks the older and higher ranking the better, befriend them at least casually over a cup of coffee or whatever. Remember, these guys deal with the dredges of society on a daily basis so hopefully we don't have to, so it's a relief to talk with normal people. Be sure to know their names, so if you do get pulled over by one being a dick, to avoid hassles by police the next best thing to being one yourself is having a friend who is one. A line like "I was talking to my buddy Lieutenant Smith just last week about my ebike, and he told me as long as I adhered to the speed limit and red lights, etc. and not up on the sidewalk terrorizing pedestrians or looking like an illegal alien with no license, then my bike was fine." is sure to keep even the jerkiest of cops at bay.

Cop proofing yourself is much better than trying to cop proof your bike.

John

 

[dingoEsride]

I am jealous of John in CR who just goes at the speed to match other motorists, here in Aus we have a 200 watt power limit but I have an idea to run at 2 x 24 volts then switch to 24 if I gets pulled over and a removable key switch should do it

 

[John in CR]

I am jealous of John in CR who just goes at the speed to match other motorists, here in Aus we have a 200 watt power limit but I have an idea to run at 2 x 24 volts then switch to 24 if I gets pulled over and a removable key switch should do it

Well, about half the time I'm matching their speed. The other half I'm going faster...slower isn't even 1% of the time. I get passed by maybe 1 or 2 cars a month. That excludes the highway of course. I make an 18 mile round trip run on the highway once a month or so, but even there I bet I pass more vehicles than pass me, especially on the mile plus of 8% grade on the way. I do have an unfair advantage because those wanting to go faster get caught behind buses, trucks, and other slow up the hill vehicles. The return trip is always with the wind and an overall net downhill grade, so I'm either using a steel blocking back and matching someones speed, or passing those too slow.

 

[bandaro]

yeah, that 200w limit over here is killer... to avoid it i was thinking of getting a current limiter and rigging it inline with the main power leads, so flip a switch and it will work, otherwise it on *charge mode* that will blow the controller with too much power, naturally, so i was not on that one

So, would it be as simple as getting some sort of current limiter? can you get them that would limit the current to say 6-8 amps without blowing or tripping and need a reset? about to do a big order from electric scooter parts so if they sell what i need then adding that to the order now would be ideal... shipping to oz kills me.

 

[Green Machine]

yeah, that 200w limit over here is killer... to avoid it i was thinking of getting a current limiter and rigging it inline with the main power leads, so flip a switch and it will work, otherwise it on *charge mode* that will blow the controller with too much power, naturally, so i was not on that one

So, would it be as simple as getting some sort of current limiter? can you get them that would limit the current to say 6-8 amps without blowing or tripping and need a reset? about to do a big order from electric scooter parts so if they sell what i need then adding that to the order now would be ideal... shipping to oz kills me.

Dude its so much simpler than that....just slap a "200w" sticker on your motor...

There use to be a guy here on the sphere selling a sheet of them for $5 shipped....but you can print your own.

 

[manitu]

You know.. The crystalyte 35HT is sold in europe with EU conformity papers. At 36 volts , that is..
http://shop.crystalyte-europe.com/files/Crystalyte Ht Rear Motor 25KM Max speed.pdf

.manitu

 

[bigbore]

yeah, that 200w limit over here is killer... to avoid it i was thinking of getting a current limiter and rigging it inline with the main power leads, so flip a switch and it will work, otherwise it on *charge mode* that will blow the controller with too much power, naturally, so i was not on that one

So, would it be as simple as getting some sort of current limiter? can you get them that would limit the current to say 6-8 amps without blowing or tripping and need a reset? about to do a big order from electric scooter parts so if they sell what i need then adding that to the order now would be ideal... shipping to oz kills me.

Dude its so much simpler than that....just slap a "200w" sticker on your motor...

There use to be a guy here on the sphere selling a sheet of them for $5 shipped....but you can print your own.

I guess the 250W European limit could be done with the 12 FET model EC-124110 programmable controller .... just program a low power mode and make sure if the e-bike is checked by cops that mode can not be reversible.

Anyway until now I have the following issues to be addressed:
1) The motor must be powered only if the pedals spins forward so, I think I need to build or find a PAS with only forward gas enabled.
2) At the speed of 25Km/h the motor must shout down and the rider must pedals if he wants to go faster. It seems to me that the speed limit function of the cycle analyst limits the speed at the programmed value but do not turn off the motor as the bike exceed that speed.... please correct me if I'm wrong.