E-bike Haters - Why do so many people miss the point?

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

@veloman....its pretty easy to change 90% of rear flats on a hub motor without removing the wheel at all - all you have to do is open the tire up, with the v-brake undone, so the tire and exposed tube can still rotate with a bit of care. Inflate, listen for air, patch it up and you're done. If possible this is way easier to do than removing all the torque solution junk and the nuts - just do it in situ. Not always possible but I've done it many times. Especially if you can locate the offending sharp that caused the flat, which needs to be searched for anyway.

 

[liveforphysics]

I ride this bike down big flights of stairs and jump every curb I can.

vid or it didn't happen.

but seriously, i've been meaning to ask you about this bike, but it always seems OT. :lol:

and now that we're here, i can't help myself from asking... - anything to get my mind off dogman's tight ass... :lol:

1. i know you have tons of gopros and it would only take 3 seconds, so please, give us a nice little vid of you taking that thing down the stairs. it would be so good for the ebike movement. i'm serious!

This is one Henry filmed in my backyard of my previous pad hoping to catch me eating sh*t as a wheel blows apart, as this was one of the maiden stress tests of the super thin spoke front wheel. Since this time it's proven itself to handle much much more abuse than the Shamano R-555 rear road wheel tolerates. That thing is going to snap apart one of these days, cracks are visible in a few places already. Hopefully it makes for an exciting time when it does come apart.

[youtube]ffRy9pCIpnc[/youtube]

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

if you want to commiserate or show your support:
http://bikeportland.org/2013/04/09/guest-article-please-stop-hating-on-e-bikes-85208

to save you from slogging thru all the comments, the general consensus is ebikes get grudging acceptance from cycliststs so long as they suck.
IF they keep their speed to under 15mph AND you have a physical disability, THEN they're not a threat to anyone's penis.
know your place in the pekkin order biatch, do not emasculate the lycra or there be... trubble.
it's all about the emasculation.

speaking of biatch, has anyone ever been called a cheater by women cyclists?
guessing probably not.



let's park all the hate into a single thread for handy reference.
http://autos.sympatico.ca/waste-gate/14120/the-plague-of-e-bikes
http://autos.sympatico.ca/waste-gate/14484/e-bike-riders-still-ignoring-traffic-laws
http://reviews.mtbr.com/the-angry-singlespeeder-electric-mountain-bikes-friend-or-foe
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=48757
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41562
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36472

 

[veloman]

Did anyone catch the ebike in the background here? That motor looks like it belongs on an electric truck.

 

[liveforphysics]

That electric motor on deathbike is the one I was mentioning lays as much power to the ground as roughly ~130x my roadbike ebike.

 

[-dg]

The nerd sees a problem and goes to significant effort to address it (occasionally creating several more in the process). Our initial problem might be a thousand-foot hill, a 20-mile freeway commute, a toasty knee joint, or a stupendous beer gut. Or it might be a restless sense of curiosity, or a friend with a special need. That's what Endless-Sphere is all about, I think. We find problems, make more problems, and solve problems too (sometimes well enough to change the course of the industry). The result constitutes a kind of sport unto itself. Accomplishments are plenty, but inconsistent. The game is in the struggle. Most of us don't reach the point where we've resolved whatever it was that first got us working on it, and turn our attention away again.

Well said and quite insightful, especially about curiousity and the game being in the struggle.

 

[-dg]

The shimano rear wheel goes out of true perpetually, and I'm pretty sure it's going to break one of these days.

Yeah, the proprietary special low spoke count wheels are almost all terrible. But they look cool and are expensive so they sell.

 

[Punx0r]

My bike is a collection of misaligned junk. But like a lot of stuff I own or have made, it works just well enough that I can't be arsed to mess with it.

Not least because trying to fix things that "kinda" work, often leaves them not working at all.

 

[liveforphysics]

Here are the first pictures of how my new project looks at the moment.

LFP, just from the few pictures you have posted, mechanically speaking, your front derailleur is positioned several millimeters higher than factory specified above your largest chainring, I appreciate the advise, and I will play with shifting it down. That front Dura-ace triple is not designed for my size frame tubing, I had to enlarge the clamp bore and run a longer bolt, it was designed to be sitting back towards the frame by about 1.8mm closer IIRC. It sits where it does because I found best shifting performance to the granny cog happened when the step in the derailuer was engaging the middle sprockets recess just a bit so it could reliably kick it down a whisker. When pedaling, it never has any contact with the chain anywhere (if it's not currently mid-shift at that moment), the chain doesn't drop off anymore (unless I'm hitting big drops, which sometimes flings the chain off), and it shifts smoother and faster than any bike I've ever ridden before this. You can see the marks on the frame where I had it a few mm lower, and raised it to help it drop into the granny faster by bumping that step in the cage. and the cable housing loop run on your rear derailleur is longer than necessary. Both of these will decrease shifting performance. Extra length in your housing just slows shifting, but a poorly positioned front derailleur may throw the chain altogether. If it is misaligned laterally as well, you will invariably be unable to fully utilize the intended gear ranges of your rear cassette realtive to the front chainring you use without chain rub on the front derailleur cage. This will also add some degree of parastic drag on your drivetrain as a result. Additionally, the trim funtionality of your STI shifters will also be compromised. I of course first adjusted the positioning screws and stops, and only then found the lower cage was bent a bit so it caused excessive side friction with the plastic pulley, I bent this until the pedal/chain assembly would spin as freely as possible backwards, whcih I assume is the point of least drag The deburring of the chain and chainrings will essentially yeild no net gain unless the mechanical aspects of the bicycle are addressed first.

Your octalink - era crankset (Ultegra FC6503) should be utilizing a 118.5 mm spindle. any other width, which are available for double road and triple mountain widths, also vary in length. There is consequently also a "gen 1" octalink splined style BB and a "gen 2" style splined bb which are not compatible. Proper chain line begins with proper BB and BB width. To the best of my knowledge, that's the correct bottom bracket for the bike. I know sizing them is a PITA, so I took it to the LBS and paid out the ass for them to find out what BB my bike should have and ordered it at about 2x online prices, then borrowed the tap from a bike mechanic friend, removed the old one, compared it with the new one (visually identical to the best of my ability to find a mechanical difference), then installed it after cleaning the slightly rusted threads with the tap.

Rear derailluers are not adjusted by "making tiny bends" to adjust chain angle. There are high and low speed limit screws, low speed gear adjustment screws. These set screws are what defines the travel of the rear derailleur across the rear cassette, and the gap between the top floating pulley when riding along your lowest speed gear.I used the high-low screws exclusively at first, but due to my derailluer being bent (it's been smashed on rocks and logs HARD many times) it required some small bends in addition to the normal screw adjustments to make it shift as smoothly as I desired.

If you are bending the derailleur hanger to adjust the chain line, I suggest you investigate the use of a PARK DAG 2 tool or other similar alignment guage. This guage will quickly determine if your rear hanger is bent. Thank you for the tip on the tool! I didn't know a tool for it existed, I used dental floss and a yard stick, same trick I use to line up chainlines when making frames or mounting motors etc.

I am sure Chalo would explain all of this if I don't.....

The reason I'm not overly focused on the rear deraillure right now is because I will be swapping out to a 2013 XTR or XT derailleur with the integrated "shadow plus" clutch based chain tensioner system so my chain is quieter when I'm on a trail or jumping curbs and things. It dings and bangs and occasionally falls off now, and I think with the 'shadow-plus' setup it will work more quietly and fall off less.

As you've got a lot more bike setup skills than myself, can you by chance tell me if my mid 2000's Ultegra STI will work with those cable pull ratios work directly with a modern XTR derailure and hence it will have the right movement steps and things with my 9spd rear cassette? If not, can you recomend a solution that will work? I don't care too much about parts cost, but I would like to avoid having to buy all new drivetrain parts since I just purchased new everything for the 9spd setup.

 

[full-throttle]

As you've got a lot more bike setup skills than myself, can you by chance tell me if my mid 2000's Ultegra STI will work with those cable pull ratios work directly with a modern XTR derailure and hence it will have the right movement steps and things with my 9spd rear cassette?

I'm afraid it's a negative. 9sp STI is 1:1 actuation, 10sp is 1.7:1 or thereabouts.
Clutched derailleurs are awesome! Haven't dropped a chain once all season.

 

[mythprod]

The blogger seems like an idiot, I read some of his other posts. Blogs I prefer tell a story or offer information or insight, this guy just likes to bitch and cry.

I remember some dude on a bike (he was with a buddy, they are always with a buddy when they're dicks) yelling something but had my earbuds in so no idea what was said. Could've been positive really, I don't know, don't care. I had a truck take off from a stoplight and get close to me, at first I thought he was a bad driver and then he sort of waved his hand towards the passenger seat irritably, so I'm relatively certain he was telling me something that was interesting to him.

In all other cases it's been positive for me. One LBS I was in sold an overpriced BionX, 2-300 watt or something for $1800+ or something. I spoke to the head honcho and he knew close to nothing about electric bikes, other than how to put in the key. I didn't hold anything against him for that, I'm sure they don't sell that many. The other LBS were a good group of guys, didn't have much of an opinion on electric bikes other than being a little curious about them.

I like to use my bike for commuting. I understand the mis-perception that if you ride an e-bike no wonder you're fat, you're too lazy to ride a real bike. I get it. They just don't know. The truth is it's not like a motorcycle or a moped and I like to pedal while riding. I get winded by riding and am always sweaty by the time I get to work. I sweat a lot no matter what and get -really- sweaty if I ride to work on no power. I did it for a few months before building mine last year. It's just not usually practical to ride a bike to work every day, depending on the distance you live from work and the path it takes to get there. In general the more consistency you can have when exercising, the better off you'll be (working out hard for a day or two and then relaxing for the next week isn't going to yield you many benefits). The more practical you can make your exercise, the more often you'll likely be able to do it. So yes it may look as though you're being lazy riding an e-bike, but you're able to do it every day, not just a few times during the week when you have time. I feel it when I haven't ridden the bike to work, I feel it now because it's been rainy and I don't ride when moisture is on the ground. Just isn't my thing. I'll ride when it's colder than a witch's titty, but as soon as it snows or rains I'm in the jeep. I have respect for people who ride in the moisture, but I'm just not one of them.

E-bikers don't have anything to prove and I don't particularly like passing bikers or pedestrians if I don't have to. We're not out to make people feel like shit, we're selfishly enjoying nature, saving money and getting exercise while going to and from work. In general as long as you're not a dick, people aren't going to much care what you ride. Ride on the road if you're going to go fast, stay over far enough that people can pass you and don't do stupid shit or show off and you're probably going to be just fine.

 

[liveforphysics]

As you've got a lot more bike setup skills than myself, can you by chance tell me if my mid 2000's Ultegra STI will work with those cable pull ratios work directly with a modern XTR derailure and hence it will have the right movement steps and things with my 9spd rear cassette?

I'm afraid it's a negative. 9sp STI is 1:1 actuation, 10sp is 1.7:1 or thereabouts.
Clutched derailleurs are awesome! Haven't dropped a chain once all season.

Thrilled to hear it's working so well for you, it seriously seems like a no-brainer to have the clutched derailleur, I'm shocked it took the industry so long to make them.

So, if 9spd STI is 1:1, and this is 1.7:1, I've seen a page with this German guy who re-drilled the cable housing mount location on the bracket to change the ratio, I believe to work with 9spd stuff. Do you know if STI and the XTR shifer (when both 9spd) used identical cable pull ratios? The German guy did it with a new XTR to let it work with his 9spd setup on a mountain bike, I want to make it work with STI levers, but I don't know if they are the same cable pull ratio as the 9spd mt bike stuff.

 

[full-throttle]

Yes, changing the anchor point for the cable will work. I've seen it done on Campagnolo to Shimano conversion. The trick is to figure out where to drill.

AFAIK road and MTB 9sp are interchangeable. Road derailleurs were often used on DH bikes in the past.

BTW for a road bike you're prob better off using a Shimano Zee. It weighs less than XT and has a shorter cage.

 

[jkbrigman]

A "Lycra" is a guy riding his bike dressed in lycra who has a dumbshit attitude.
...
Being a "lycra", I guarantee he's still watching you since his entire world depends on being superior to you..
...
Don't pass him, push him. Push that jerk that just laughed at you till his lungs burn like fire. Then pass him, but whistle a cheery tune while you cruise by. 8)

I've encountered the attitude dogman talks about out on the road...not on an ebike, but on a regular human-powered bike. I'm a utility cyclist. Commuting, groceries, getting a movie from the redbox. All my bikes get fenders and rear rack even before they get their first long ride. I use panniers and "fat" tires larger than 23c to discourage flats. The weight of my bikes doesn't matter and I don't use gel, energy bars or sport drinks. Just be aware that being out there with them isn't enough. They won't feel any kinship to you. They won't even like you. Don't be surprised when they don't return your wave or acknowledge you as they pass by.

Having said all that, Lycra is important: it keeps you from abrading yourself where you touch the saddle and eliminates the occurrence of blisters. You must wear it when you ride long distance or it's bad, really bad.

 

[Dauntless]

. . . . the "attitude": the lycras will have the same attitude about slower cyclists - it's got nothing to do with the batteries and motor - they hate EVERYone. It's part of the elitist culture.

I don't think I've ever seen the 'Fixie' rider that needed lycra to act that way. But the fixie rider and the hard core cyclist are natural enemies.

So I know the actual competitive cyclist who likes the idea of electric bikes. In fact he mentions he needs something faster than an ordinary bike if he wants to ride close to home. I should think that people who want to be on bikes will be more receptive than you think in the right situation.

At the moment I consider myself a recovering former handicapped person, still afraid to get far from home on an ordinary bike. Too many episodes where for no reason the knee or the ankle snaps and swells, bad enough that I have to walk home but I'll be pushing the bike. That problem might finally be over. Of course I'm still building up the nerve to venture away. Figure I need the legs in shape first.

But it was funny when I used to get around on the little folding bike. Perfect strangers would want one when they thought it was a regular bike, I'd tell them it was electric and they weren't interested. That was a horrible bike to pedal around. If the damaged hub from the broken axle can't be fixed I'd say its' life is over. You can't cover 10-15 miles on something like that without a motor, it's too hard to ride. But this particular bike is popular with boaters, etc., because they can put into a slip and pull the little thing out and head into town. I wonder what it'll take to convince those others of the value of that.

 

[dingoEsride]

I don't think I've ever seen the 'Fixie' rider that needed lycra to act that way. But the fixie rider and the hard core cyclist are natural enemies.

That quote reminded me of this
[youtube]Vn29DvMITu4[/youtube]

sort of sums it up

 

[jkbrigman]

I don't think I've ever seen the 'Fixie' rider that needed lycra to act that way. But the fixie rider and the hard core cyclist are natural enemies.

That quote reminded me of this
....

sort of sums it up

+10000, hilarious. :lol:

 

[Lenk42602]

cant help myself. apologies in advance for strong language vid #2

[youtube]GMCkuqL9IcM[/youtube]

[youtube]hgCqz3l33kU[/youtube]

 

[jkbrigman]

Hold on here....

LFP wants to "preserve the riding qualities of the bike" and will "remove LiPo if it interferes"?!?!?
I'd think veloman had hacked LFP's E-S account if deathbike WEREN'T in the background....

Wait: he's talking about smashing his face on the ground. Whew, that confirms it's LFP. All is right with the world.

 

[pjgold]

Prepare yourselves for these fun days and arm yourselves with a great array of snappy retorts. He are a 5 examples to get you started please add to the collection and support your fellow e-bikers.

1. When the lycra catches up to you at the traffic lights and mutters "cheater"...reply "I didn't know we were racing, i'll just turn the motor on"
2. When the lycra catches up to you at the traffic lights and mutters "cheater"...reply "There are rules for riding to work?"
3. The overweight guy at work is poking fun with "Hows the lazy mans bike going?"...reply "Great how was your morning workout?"
4. "My bike only weighs half as much"...reply "Sure but I've got another 2 pairs of legs helping me"
5."An electric bike that's just lazy"....reply "Your right I should just drive to work"

To be honest most of the comments I get are positive but there is always one you can have some fun with.

 

[MattyCiii]

I bring my bikes into the office. Like, who wouldn't, right? The A-Line is big so I leave it right outside my office, and sometimes people swing by and stare.
So recently this guy John stops by. "Matt, can I take a picture of your bike?" I reply "Sure." John - "My son wanted a pic. I told him about it and he was really interested." Wow, that's a story onto itself. Not only are people from work who see the bike intrigued, apparently they bring the subject up with their family. Wow.

Trying hard not to be too self-promoting, this is indeed a powerful story. The right bike can be, in a small way, inspiring in the way the space program was to kids in the 1960s. Think of what first inspired you.

Me, I'm an introvert. That doesn't mean I don't want recognition, and don't feel elated by compliments. I tend to steer away from social engagement where others go towards. But with the bike, it's a catalyst, an ambassador. It helps me break out of my social shell. When I see people interested - which is frequent - I push myself out of my comfort zone and invite discussion. Of course the deck is stacked in my favor at that point, because my bike is pretty I am universally in a positive situation to begin with.

 

[dak664]

Here's an interesting take on ebikes http://karenlynnallen.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-pluses-and-minuses-of-electric-bikes.html

She likes the cargo ebike for grocery trips but thinks they should be limited to 15 mph, slower than pedal bikes. I guess so as not to enrage the virtuous pedal only crowd

 

[pucksterpete]

I got one for ya

Since my time here in France I have gone to my LBS with my cheap looking hartail and now the Strong cromotor bike. The hartail was first a little 66cc bike and when I needed bike parts I went to the LBS and a scooter shop. I could see the laughs under their smiles. But everytime I finished building the bike, I brought it over to the LBS and let the mechanics and others ride it. They were actually impressed and thought it was pretty cool. I recently went over there with the 20S Strong Cromotor and that got their interest real quick, more test rides and they enjoyed. The times I have came in they have even given me some parts for free that I needed. This is a high end LBS and they have their pass Tour de France videos on everyday.

So, I guess in some way have earned their respect.

Pete