Electric X project - Petrol enhanced battery-electric bike.

[cj7hawk]

Interesting project. One item I would change on the bike it to get a heavy duty street tire. It will give you lower rolling resistance. I could tell when I did my bike conversion.

I will, but for the moment, it has rubber and I can work my way through it - and I figure to buy a new one next time I go shopping, but it will wait - Yeah, it does look a bit ugly like that doesn't it.

 

[cj7hawk]

Neat project,wont the cops still bug you with a gas motor on the bicycle.

Maybe they will, but hopefully I won't give them any reason to hassle me and in any event I've been collecting the legal background on it for some time. Generally cops are pretty good unless they have a reason to think you might be breaking the law and I can always keep a copy of the act somewhere handy to get to

I got to the prototype point today - Finished the electric bike conversion, added a power meter ( temporarily ) and then connected up the Gen and fitted it to the faulty rack - got tired of waiting for the new one.

Seems to ride OK, but there's storms and I was getting pretty wet, so I took a quick photo under cover - not the best... But it does ride now And it works correctly, throttling up to maintain battery charge voltage.

Now I need to redesign the electronics box so it all fits together well.

Regards
David

 

[cj7hawk]

An update - I have begun work on the Mk II generator - Weight is now down around 10 lbs for the motor/generator together ( About 4.5Kg ) and it's brushless - Triple-fan forced airflow ( front fan missing in image - PTO visible ) and it runs at lower RPM - so even quieter. The generator is a 3kW brushless, with around 2.5mm dia wiring to the coils. This particular build is intended to run up to 1kW and is fully enclosed, with airflow both over and through the motor.

First tests tonight to confirm voltage operation.

A pic of the new prototype gen setup.

Regards
David

 

[cj7hawk]

A quick update - The new gen is working great - Currently on the third generation ( what a pun! ) of technology, has been simplified and strengthened substantially -

Measured economy now exceeds 180 mpg petrol/electric and I can get over 150 mph just from petrol on normal roads ( all my prior testing was with extreme hills ).

Third-generator prototype with all structural components ( generator is now fully self-supporting and bolts to the side of the engine ) - Also includes air filter to keep dust and particles out of the generator, full 3-fan forced-air-cooling system and stays pretty cool -

Current output of this model - 1 kW continuous. But I don't really draw more than a touch over 400w even under worst-case draw ( Fully charging battery, operating motor and electrical system inefficiently, etc ). If I can find a cheap 1000w 24v inverter, I might be able to hook up a hair dryer or something to test that -

Hmmmm... A petrol powered electric touring bicycle that supports a hairdryer away from the grid... There might be a market for that -

Design now also incorporates my "turbo" technology - so has electric boosters that push additional voltage ( above battery supply voltage ) to the electrical system to allow operation to the maximum legal limit - In my case 200w, but also supports 750w systems as in the US - and allows operation over and above the back-emf limited top-speed.

Regards
David

 

[nutnspecial]

Bravo sir, I applaud your out of the box thinking and your fortitude to share!
I totally can see the possibilites for an undertaking like this, and if there is nothing else like it you really should consider marketing it. Basically the benefit is very little upfront battery investment, and no grid charging needed. A rider instead pays as they go in cupful's of gasoline.

A portable generator is a great idea, especially when it also extends the range of such a small 'vehicle'. Drive it offgrid and use it as a power source!

 

[dogman dan]

PM me when you want to sell one. Would need to output 48v, or close enough to it.

 

[TheBeastie]

I think hybrid electric bikes are something that should be on the way at least from companies like Zero, but I see absolutely no evidence of that.
While I have no interest in more range or acquiring a hybrid in general I am surprised that there isn't an abundance of this type of technology everywhere considering the amount of folks who ask about range.

There is a hybrid multi-rotor drone that can carry 9 kilos of extra cargo weight and travel 160km of range with that weight by using a ICE motor to power the electric rotor motors, the lithium battery gets recharged via the ICE and is also there to give extra power when needed and to provide emergency landing if the ICE cuts out for some reason.

More about it here http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=47799&start=50

I think considering a multi-rotor can be made a very effective hybrid then it should be double so for electric bikes. I think no one but this OP alone is working on such technology and no lab level company is doing it as far as I know of. I was thinking the one they are using on the hybrid drone is probably the perfect size ebikes would want as well though.

I think an ideal gas ICE hybrid ebike would use LPG and would in fact have lower total emissions then ANY Australian pure lithium battery ebike since %70 of all electricity in Aus comes from coal (higher % in Vic,NSQ,QLD, Vic is %85 super dirty brown coal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Victoria_(Australia) ) and coal in fact releases a 100 times more radioactive materials into the atmosphere then nuclear power plants since coal is riddled with radioactive contaminants.

The Hybrid drone brings the fact to our faces very clearly that the energy density of petrol/gas is still incredibly higher then any kind of lithium battery alone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
Here is a chart below of the hybrid drones energy comparison.

 

[parabellum]

Cool stuff. Let us know if you start marketing it, I can use a 98V top version for sure!

 

[cj7hawk]

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments - To be honest, I have no idea where to start marketing it or selling it or anything like that - Also, it's still under development and the next phase is widespread testing under other conditions to learn what is required to be useful as a product. At this point, I'm hoping to form a small community of people who want to work on projects like this, or using this, and to help them build their own ones ( it's all COTS components and 3D printed parts so isn't very expensive to make ) and provide me feedback so I can continue to improve it - And perhaps also rely on other skills in the community to help me where I don't realize I need it yet.

Current operational designs work with 24v of VRLA batteries, but I've been working with electronic options to extend that - and also both inline direct-connect options for batteries as well as electronically boosted versions. I've also been working on a smaller, lighter 500w version that uses a 25cc motor, and the new motor just arrived yesterday.... It's pretty small. Also, I can boost the output to meet other requirements, but haven't fully automated those designs yet - still, it's possible to do anywhere from 12v to 80v with a manual throttle at this point in time. Output power is still pretty much the same, and can drive up to 1kW with parallel coupled boosters. ( About 4 required for 1kW - would cost around $60 ).

Current design concepts I've tested support up to 80v DC ( I haven't found boosters beyond this ) and support both mechanical and automatic throttle control. The base design does support different generator cores though and because of the design, most are COTS components and are interchangeable.

I don't actually have the funds or resources to develop a complete product myself - and I think this has wider benefits to the community so at this point where it's working well enough and is functional, I'm looking for community support to develop it further ( that is, people who want to make their own, and implement it into their projects ). I spent a little time researching and I think there are many who wanted the idea or who even started building such small generators, but most stopped when they hit a certain point and went no further. There were a number of practical issues I found when building it that I had to solve and in hindsight they weren't that difficult to overcome, but at the time I hit them, each and every one seemed insurmountable so I can understand why no one actually got around to building a working series-hybrid bicycle before.

Anyway, for those who want to build their own, please contact me and let me know - I wanted to build mine so I could ride to work each day and it really does work very well. I've had single sessions where I've ridden until the fuel runs out, and it seems to hold up OK - so I'm a long way from the one that failed within an hour when I first started.

Well, I am rambling on a bit - If anyone wants to join in, please do so and contact me - I'll continue to update here -

Regards
David.

 

[beast775]

After looking for a picture from 2007? of my generator way to heavy and stopped the project-ice ebike... wasnt easy to find,but i had the idea of a generator-ice charge bicycle.i learned alot about controllers- regen. but the end result was piss poor regen,but back then the electrics were not as good as today.im watching your build and wish you luck.Mark.

Had a whole lotta diodes etc hanging from the wirings ratnest on the bars.

 

[Eclectic]

Cool stuff. Thanks for sharing your work.

I always thought that a multi-fuel micro-turbine (instead of a reciprocating engine) generator / electric drive would be a light weight and efficient drive system. Too bad no one makes a mass produced, inexpensive multi-fuel micro-turbine engine.

 

[cj7hawk]

View attachment 1After looking for a picture from 2007? of my generator way to heavy and stopped the project-ice ebike... wasnt easy to find,but i had the idea of a generator-ice charge bicycle.i learned alot about controllers- regen. but the end result was piss poor regen,but back then the electrics were not as good as today.im watching your build and wish you luck.Mark.

Had a whole lotta diodes etc hanging from the wirings ratnest on the bars.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that - I found a few pictures of bikes that had started down this path - Most gave up before the end though due to the various problems - Weight of the generator was one, but I did find people who had started to build their own generator the way I did, and I contacted them for advice, but none of them completed it.

One person did make a simple Gen to Wheel direct drive, and throttled the gen to control speed/power, but it seems getting the gen lightweight was half the problem. I can relate to the crows-nest wiring - I have a lot myself. I'm just waiting on a few extra parts to start building it all into a small box that's fully self-contained.

A simplified diagram of the entire setup is here -

Building a generator small enough to do the job was the first problem - The original concept models weighed about 6kg, though I am trying to almost half that and have gotten below 4.5kg lately.

The second challenge was controlling the motor, and there were no commercial servos to do the task and I didn't want to go digital, so I used a hysteresis system that would throttle-back really quickly if the float voltage of the batteries was increased, but would use the hysteresis effect of the ripple coming from the generator to adjust charge to optimum levels. This means it can move quickly when it has to protect the batteries from over-voltage or over-current, but will also push a lower voltage in when they are flat, and continuously increase the voltage until it charges the batteries to about 85% capacity ( 85% means the voltage under generator never exceeds the maximum voltage under battery alone, so there's no increase in power - for legal reasons where I live ).

The effect while riding is that if I go WOT, the bike accelerates hard, then as the load starts to cause the batteries output to drop ( due to internal resistance ) the generator detects it, and continues to throttle up, maintaining a constant voltage under operation, so up hills, the note increases, while down hills, it drops off suddenly into an idle. Back-EMF above the boost level filters back and trips the converter down really steep hills and the sound from the generator is so quiet it sometimes makes me think it's stopped. If it's putting out high power and I throttle down, it also backs off instantly on the motor, but slowly throttles back to whatever voltage is required.

Designed like this, it's fairly simple, but it does comply to EN15194 for the european standard. Maximum power is nearly a kilowatt, so I light up several lights all the time to make riding safer.

Did you get yours running? Tell me how your attempts went? I'd love to hear more.

I've run about 20 hours on this so far, and over 300km... So far it's holding up pretty well. Also, the main moving parts other than the generator and motor are all 3D printed, so can be replaced every 100 hours during a quick maintenance.

Regards
David.

 

[nutnspecial]

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/liquidpiston-small-efficient-rotary-engine-1205

I'm wondering if mini rotary engines could offer any benefits? They seem pretty cool, but I'm not highly technical.

 

[cj7hawk]

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/liquidpiston-small-efficient-rotary-engine-1205

I'm wondering if mini rotary engines could offer any benefits? They seem pretty cool, but I'm not highly technical.

I don't think it really matters a lot - that's just another engine. From the description in the article, it seems they are planning on using it for small vehicles and handheld garden appliances, in which case, it's just a bolt-on to my Gen.

Anything with the same flange will bolt right up in less than a minute and then just feed through the throttle cable and it's done.

That was one of the things I made sure to do - it's all standardized flanges and adapters, with everything else 3D printed - That means it can be made/modified/updated without having to spend a lot of money on parts or redesign the entire part.

There are two standard flanges - A larger more common one ( the 1kW model ) and a smaller compact one ( the 500W model ).

I'm planning parts for both of them...

I guess the idea is that once you've invested in the engine and generator core, there's nothing else to replace - the electronics are simple and can be replaced by a manual system too if necessary. Boosters and all other electronic components are common, off the shelf items too. Everything about it is low-cost.

New engines like this come along - it's just a case of getting hold of one and bolting it straight up, but these new engines are unlikely to be cheaper - Would be nice if quieter though, and less vibration.

Regards
David

 

[TheBeastie]

Design now also incorporates my "turbo" technology - so has electric boosters that push additional voltage ( above battery supply voltage ) to the electrical system to allow operation to the maximum legal limit - In my case 200w, but also supports 750w systems as in the US - and allows operation over and above the back-emf limited top-speed.

I just gotta say if you want to build a more powerful bike to make use of the power you can generate you shouldn't be afraid to do so.
There are AU folk on this forum who have been riding to work on a 4000w stealth fighters etc for years without a ounce of trouble.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=57751

Just saying, and since you sound like a sensible bloke that should give you the moral right to build an ebike of around up to 8000w of power, no probs.

 

[cj7hawk]

Design now also incorporates my "turbo" technology - so has electric boosters that push additional voltage ( above battery supply voltage ) to the electrical system to allow operation to the maximum legal limit - In my case 200w, but also supports 750w systems as in the US - and allows operation over and above the back-emf limited top-speed.

I just gotta say if you want to build a more powerful bike to make use of the power you can generate you shouldn't be afraid to do so.
There are AU folk on this forum who have been riding to work on a 4000w stealth fighters etc for years without a ounce of trouble.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=57751

Just saying, and since you sound like a sensible bloke that should give you the moral right to build an ebike of around up to 8000w of power, no probs.

Hi Beastie,

Thanks for the suggestion - The current "turbo" system is well capable of pushing the full 500w through the motor I use, but given as I'm pushing the envelope of bicycle development here in Australia and the bicycle is likely to get a lot of attention from the authorities, it's important for me to be able to demonstrate that it's all within the limits under all circumstances.

At the moment, I get a lot of support from the government to built and develop this system too, so playing by their rules is important.

Though the system I'm making is intended to support more powerful bicycles - including off-road cycles and small electric vehicles. It's also intended to support ad-hoc generator requirements for camping and will have an optional AC inverter outlet in the future.

Regards
David

 

[cj7hawk]

Just a project update - The bike has now completed some commute runs over 50km total distance without issue - Operation is good and the generator seems pretty solid. I've taken the entire thing apart and measured early wear on the structural components, but that's within tolerance, so now I just need to redesign the electronics housing and autothrottle setup so it all fits neatly around the generator - current upgrade sub-project is at 70% completion, with a lot of part standardization. Also, the motor now uses custom mounts and a moulded rear-rack with side struts... Hope to update this once the new generator is assembled and tested -

Regards
David

 

[cj7hawk]

An update - Has now reached the fifth generation of prototype, and is now at an advanced testing point.

A first "Full Prototype" has been completed and tested - works great, set for 26v optimal, with 27.5v absolute maximum. Charges the battery to 95% in operation, and although the sticker says 116dbm I've tested it at under 90dbm full power ( around 400w for testing ) -

Recently did 43km on 600ml of petrol ( ~72 liters per gallon, or 170 mpg ) full power - though with some light pedaling, equaling both car-in-traffic and bus/train times for the same distance commute ( 25.5 km ).

It now sits on rail mounts that fit directly to the shape of the rear carrier bar, and is fully contained with automatic throttle. Power is output via a standard 50A plug, so can be disconnected and used to connect a 24v inverter or similar. Rectifier is a 100A diode array embedded in a heatsink, and has around 12000mfd capacitors within the box, as well as a 5kg/cm servo that's been derated to about 1kg/cm to drive the throttle line. Both ends are also now adjustable and the throttle line can be removed from the servo unit. Has a tacho/hourmeter on top so I can monitor use for oil changes and maintenance, and while it leaks a tiny bit of oil, that's not bad for a cheap 4-stroke motor and otherwise it's pretty clean and doesn't smell. Drives 2 x VRLA batteries, making it about the most economical and possible the cleanest form of transport available, with an estimated cost of commute ( 50km per day ) of around $2.50.

Air filter is now standards, has 3 x cooling fans, and still runs on a 3kW brushless generator. ( Motor maximum output = 1.2 kW so maximum output is around 800 to 1000 watts. )

I think this now qualifies as the first realistic series hybrid petrol/electric ( Or range extended electric ) bicycle and is legally an electric bicycle in most parts of the world and also probably qualifies as the lightest petrol generator - around 5kg. I'm working on a smaller model, but this has proven itself under operation now and has around 20 hours use on the same plastic torque transfer plate. All non-COTS components are 3D printed, so it's fully maintainable with nothing complicated.

 

[deffx]

Thanks for documenting this for us

Looking really tidy now, great mechanical and electronic engineering

I like the hybrid concept, and the application of it, goodbye range anxiety

Look forward to how small, quiet and reliable you can get a generator to be

Thx

 

[cj7hawk]

Thanks for documenting this for us

Looking really tidy now, great mechanical and electronic engineering

I like the hybrid concept, and the application of it, goodbye range anxiety

Look forward to how small, quiet and reliable you can get a generator to be

Thx

Range anxiety is the main application. That and simple extended range as I can count on more than 30km from from the existing 600ml tank ( recent testing was 43km with light pedaling ) - though I also carry a very small fuel container to double my range as small petrol containers come in 0.5, 0.75, 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0 liters. I've been riding from Midland into Perth ( 25.5 kms ) for my daily commute while testing and it's pretty good. Total cost per commute ( there and back ) is about $2.50 including the cost of the bicycle over the bike lifetime. Having the power available means I can use smaller batteries.

Today was the first heavy testing in switched hybrid mode, using the batteries, then the motor+charging, then the batteries, etc. Rode out through the national park ( Check with the rangers first ) and did the area with a lot of people entirely on electric, then switched to motor when I got past there and out onto the road, then just used the batteries and the lights for the trip home. It was a chance to test operation with both freshly charged and flat batteries and it went very well. It was a good test ride until my son ( who came for the ride ) hit a missing piece of kerb and smashed his front wheel off. Still, went over 33km on less than half a tank. Mind you, there was a lot of pedaling today, some without any power assist at all.

You seem to be in the area so if you ever want to see it running, let me know. Noise isn't too bad and is more than 20db under the advertised noise level of the motor when I measured it - mainly due to how I use the motor. It's also been confirmed by the Western Australian Department of Transport to comply with both PAPC and Pedalec requirements so is fully road legal here.

David.

 

[LockH]

Hehe... "petrol enhanced". Must add to my list of oxymorons.

So. Would this "option" look attractive to a Norwegian? (in December, 2014 paying $9.26/gallon) Any thoughts, retail prices for fossil fuels going up or down in the future? How about "alternatives. EG any chance the sun will stop burning any time soon?

I love (recycleable) plastic but in the future it'll be criminal to burn fossil remains as fuel, yes?

 

[cj7hawk]

Hehe... "petrol enhanced". Must add to my list of oxymorons.

So. Would this "option" look attractive to a Norwegian? (in December, 2014 paying $9.26/gallon) Any thoughts, retail prices for fossil fuels going up or down in the future? How about "alternatives. EG any chance the sun will stop burning any time soon?

I love (recycleable) plastic but in the future it'll be criminal to burn fossil remains as fuel, yes?

If it's going to be burned anyway, better to burn it in smaller quantities... Anything that reduces consumption is useful and batteries have their limits. This project is a good halfway step between petrol and pure-electric and requires "electric-capable" to take the step anyway. Options like this would, if taken up, reduce overall petrol consumption by making it economical to travel even if the cost went to $20 per gallon. Also, if more people used hybrid technology, then the change to pure-electric would happen sooner - because Hybrid still requires electric development.

I used very little petrol on my last ride - less than 1/4 of a tank at an estimage - about 1/2 a cup of petrol, yet made over 35 km.... Because I used a combination of battery, petrol and pedal.

This project is about providing options that don't exist where they are badly needed, not about replacing batteries. Though it is ironic that it's cheaper than batteries alone though - though I'm sure that will change in the future -

As for how it might appeal to a Norwegian? I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with your situation - Can you give me some idea of how far you might ride a bicycle and what the terrain is like?

Thanks
David.

 

[LewTwo]

... but in the future it'll be criminal to burn fossil remains as fuel, yes?

The problem being one of energy density. Until batteries (or supercapacitors or some other technology) can provide a comparative speed and range of the fossil fueled ICE system there will always be such vehicles. There may be some alternative forms of hydro-carbon fuels (biodiesel) but the practicality of replacing all fossil fuels with alternatives is not likely in the foreseeable future.

Another point is where does that power to charge the batteries come from? Could it be from a power plant burning fossil fuels?

As the population is also increasing so will the number of people requiring transportation. Mass transit is perhaps the best hope for reducing the average energy consumption. At this time that is a valid option for a relatively small portion of the population living in densely populated cities.

 

[LockH]

The problem being one of energy consumption.

Another point is where does that power to charge the batteries come from? Could it be from a power plant burning fossil fuels?

Seen elsewhere:
"Saturday, April 19, 2014
Last Tuesday the government of Ontario announced the Thunder Bay Generating Station – Ontario’s last coal-fired power plant – had burnt off its last supply of coal. The electricity of Canada’s most populous province is officially coal free."

... relatively small portion of the population living in densely populated cities.

"In 2007, the world became a predominantly urban society."

Ebikes=24/7 operations. No "last mile". Always an "empty seat". No "regular routes". "Filling stations" everywhere as 110/120V "plugins".

 

[cj7hawk]

... relatively small portion of the population living in densely populated cities.

"In 2007, the world became a predominantly urban society."

Ebikes=24/7 operations. No "last mile". Always an "empty seat". No "regular routes". "Filling stations" everywhere as 110/120V "plugins".

Australia is mostly coal-fired, and dirty at that.... We have a prime minister and governing party at the moment that's very anti solar/wind and there's not many other sources of energy here. They don't believe in global warming either. Based on religious ( not scientific ) evidence. *sigh*.

Anyway, if it's petrol specifically you don't like, well, it will run on ethanol - just needs a different jet and the carburetor should be fine, but could be easily modified. I've never bothered going that way, because ethanol is too difficult and expensive to get hold of, but I suppose you could brew your own.

Also, there needs to be solutions for people outside of commute ranges and paths too - Sometimes e-bikes just don't provide the full solution. Quick charge is also missing from most e-only solutions.

Regards
David