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Electronic brake with 5v throttle

unclejemima

100 W
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
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264
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Western Canada
More of a 'theoretically' speaking kind of situation...

I'm working on a brushed ebike project and I'm trying to rig an electronic brake by using a secondary 5v throttle.

Basically, I have a 5V throttle on one side for accelerating and I would like to use a 5v throttle on the other side that would electronically brake or short the motor to slow down but in a variable way. Th more you twist, the more braking.

Is there any way of doing this? It's an old beast brushed unit so I'm hoping there is a creative way of doing this.

Let me know!
 
I've never done regen on a brushed motor before, but if it does work what you're looking for is usually just a feature of the controller. In the VESC ecosystem, for example, if you feed a hall to ADC2 and set the controller to the right mode, that acts as a proportional regen. In the *Runner (phase, franken, base, etc) there's often a way to directly feed that hall back to the controller (bypassing a CA, for example) to have it act in the same fashion.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I'm working with this controller (image below). It's very basic with only a 5v throttle input, and then the in/out power wires. It is very robust though!

If you can think of any creative way of somehow working 2 throttles, one for braking and one for accelerating, using this controller. Let me know!

How about using a 2nd identical controller to handle the braking? Assuming they will both be used independently, would that somehow work? Say the one controller is wired to the motors in reverse for example. Would that work?

Thanks :)
 

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That controller definitely does not have regen capabilities.

Far better to use a controller designed with regen capabilities; especially as pushing a boat load of power to your battery without proper handling in place is a good way to start a fire.
 
I did something like that a long time ago. Basically I had to make a separate braking controller to do the regen. There also needs to be some kind of interlock so you don't do power and braking at the same time. It was overly complicated and failure prone.

Non-regenerative resistor braking is simpler, but you waste the braking power.

Best deal is to get a brushed controller designed to do regen, but these are usually very expensive and there aren't many on the market.
 
If you can think of any creative way of somehow working 2 throttles, one for braking and one for accelerating, using this controller. Let me know!
If it's a 4-quadrant controller, like the 4QD from 4QD.co.uk, so that it can operate in reverse or forward direction equally, then you could have your ebrake control's switch turn on reverse *and* engage a relay that switches it's throttle input to your other throttle control's signal output. Then your brake throttle would be controlling the amount of "power" applied in reverse.

The controller may not like this, and blow up, if it's not designed well. If it's properly designed it will be able to change direction on the fly like this just fine...but I woudln't make any bets on it.



How about using a 2nd identical controller to handle the braking? Assuming they will both be used independently, would that somehow work? Say the one controller is wired to the motors in reverse for example. Would that work?

Basically, the same applies as to the other method above--if the ocntrollers are well designed, this would work. If not, you might get smoke.
 
Thanks guys.

Non-regenerative resistor braking is simpler, but you waste the braking power.
Regarding this...would this be possible with my current controller and how would I set that up? I'm not concerned about the regen actually putting power back in...I'm just looking to have some motor braking.

Let me know :)
 
Resistive braking (unless you do it more complicatedly) with a brushed motor only has one level of braking force.

What you basically do is disconnect the controller (or turn it off) from the motor (so the controller isn't shorted out by the braking resistor) then connect the braking resistor across the motor wires. There are various ways of doing this, from very simple to pretty complicated, each of which has advantages / disadvantages vs the others; depends on your needs, budget, skills, time, etc for which way to choose.

The simplest way is to have the braking switch disconnect the throttle input from the controller so the controller is "forced" to stop driving the motor, and at the "same" time have it connect the resistor across the motor wires. A big heavy duty switch could do this ok, like a circuit breaker; a smaller switch might work but may fail (welded closed or burned contacts) at some point.

To do it "right", you'll need a DPDT (2p2t, double pole double throw) switch (or relay / contactor) capable of handling the entire current of either braking or motor power (whichever is greater) rated for more than the highest voltage the system would ever see (double the battery voltage should be safe, since the braking may generate much higher voltage than the battery charges to, for short spikes). (if it's not rated for enough voltage or current, it might weld the contacts closed and not switch correctly or at all, since it must switch under possibly full system load).

And a resistor capable of dissipating the total power the braking will create. The lower the resistance, the greater the braking force. The resistor can be as simple as a very long piece of insulated wire wrapped around the bike frame tubing (so the frame acts as a kind of heatsink). For best heat transfer, use magnet wire (like that in a motor or transformer). The wire must be able to handle the current that will happen during braking--this may be anything from a few amps to a few dozen or more, depending on motor speed, vehicle speed and mass, and how long you engage braking for, as well as the wire resistance itself.

Using a relay/contactor means you dont' have to run high current wire up to wherever your braking switch is, you just use that little switch to turn the relay on when you want to brake, and the relay goes wherever is convenient. Using a switch directly means a big bulky switch wherever your braking control is, and high current wire to and from it.

You wire the relay so that it disconnects the motor from the controller, and connects it to the resistor instead. The resistor is connected across the two motor wires by the relay.

The two common poles of the switch/relay/contactor connects to the motor wires. The Normally Open (NO) poles connect to the resistor. The Normally Closed (NC) connect to the controller's motor wire outputs).


You can create multiple levels of braking by using multiple resistors and multiple switches/relays/contactors, so that the first one just disconnects the controller from the motor, then the next one connects to the first highest resistance, then the next connects to a lower resistance (or two higher resistances in parallel which halves them), and for more levels you add more switches/relays/contactors to connect more resistors in parallel, etc.


Or you could use just one lowest-resistance resistor and an LED PSU (or other CC/CV PSU) that can use DC input (rather than just AC) with a variable current control adjustment and an enable/disable control input, that has a wide input range (minimum of as low as you can get, and maximum of whatever the worst-case voltage spike the motor might put out during braking), and as high a current output as you need to brake adequately. The resistor wires across the PSU output. The motor wires to the PSU supply input. The brake switch wires to the enable/disable control input. The brake variable control wires to the variable current control adjustment input. (or replaces the onboard potentiometer). Meanwell probably makes something that would work.



This is a rather bulky and possibly expensive way to do it, so if you can afford a regen-capable brushed controller (like some of the Curtis ones, IIRC, or 4QD), it'll be much less complicated, and possibly be variable regen by nature, depending on controller design.


If you can find one you could also use a very large wirewound potentiometer (it will probably be as big as the motor) to get variable braking, and control it with a cable-operating throttle control grip, using the cable to rotate a pulley mounted on the wirewound pot. But this will be heavy and bulky. Somewhere around here I have (or used to) a Luxtrol stage lighting dimmer unit that could handle a thousand watts, and it would probably be able to do this job, but it is as large as a common DD hubmotor, and weighs at least as much as one. :(
 
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