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Eurobike 2010 coverage

Kraeuterbutter said:
hey.. i think this link was not posted so far..

http://xhybrid.de/tmp/x%20hybrid.pdf

the difference to Bosch, conway and the other middledrive-bikes:
it accepts 2 chain ring on the crank (!!!)

the others (panasonic, Bosch, conway, ktm, ...) all only one

Thanks man, i was looking for that..cauz on ther site they dont have info
 
This one is so you Miles

218-65520_Joe%20Buzz%20seite_schwarz.jpg


KiM
 
"Legacy morphology" – I like that, Miles :) Problem is, take away that design element and you're left with an incoherent design.
I'm fascinated to see these designs develop. I was hoping to see someone come out with a design that's uniquely electric – the emergence of a new design language. Can't say I've seen it yet though. Most of these designs just look too 'busy' to me. I guess it's hard to step away from that legacy – or maybe after all these years of evolution we're already close to the ideal and any major departure would be a backward step...
 
Malcolm said:
Problem is, take away that design element and you're left with an incoherent design.
Yes, the central part would need to be re-worked.

The first steam engines borrowed elements from architecture. The first cars looked like carriages. So it goes...

There's far too much "styling" for my taste, too.
 
Hillhater said:
Hmm ? .. a little too much "design" (as in "eye candy") , and not enough true engineering thought in some of those . :?

I've been thinking the same thing.
Was the siemprenbici Mountain Wolf at the show? -
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=17661

Looks pretty clean for a through-the-crank design. That motor spinning away is just enough eye candy. 8)

And besides, the bike looks like you could absolutely beat the sh*t out of it.

siemprenbici.jpg
 
Miles said:
http://creativextreme.com/?p=381

Nice article written by someone who seems to get it. I hope your 2 speed tranny makes it into production in the kind of bike we're expecting. For me of all the ebikes I've seen in pics the A2B comes the closest, though it only hits the LandRover type look, something tough and built to last. None have have come close to meeting the criteria of cool and futuristic yet elegantly simple. Maybe a few concept drawings hit some of that, but those I've seen are a bit too far out there.

Miles, You're a real artisan, how about escaping from cyclist mode and drawing up a 60-70kg electric motorcycle with a 2 speed tranny and a 2kwh battery pack that has pedal assist?
 
John in CR said:
Miles, You're a real artisan, how about escaping from cyclist mode and drawing up a 60-70kg electric motorcycle with a 2 speed tranny and a 2kwh battery pack that has pedal assist?
Given that I've never ridden a motorcycle, or even a moped, I'm not sure I'd be the best person for this task :) It would be fun to design a complete bike but, for the moment, I'm concentrating on finding solutions to some of the specific lacks.
 
John in CR said:
Miles said:

Nice article written by someone who seems to get it.

reely??
funny, i had quite the opposite reaction.
see if i can convince u why i think he's full of it.

because i have to wonder if the guy has ever sat his a$$ on an ebike.
it sounds as if his experience is strictly limited to the "idea of electric bikes".
or if he actually has ridden one, then probably not more than few times around the block.
either way he seems to think this sufficiently qualifies him to pontificate & wax 'safe'-like on ebike matters.

chris matthews said:
Over at Eurobike this year, I saw a lot of ugly bikes. And they were all electric.

I’m excited by the idea of electric bikes, and I am even more excited about their potential. But as the market expands, I’m concerned about three big things:
First, if the world is introduced to electric bikes with such blockish, frankensteinish designs, we’ll miss an important opportunity to get people excited about them. if the first iPods resembled a homemade bomb with a battery bolted to a logic board, connected by exposed wires, they’d hardly have gained a solid footing with the fashionable crowd. These bikes have every opportunity to look f@#king cool, to be a fashionable and hip addition to an urban lifestyle, a non-douchey and practical alternative to the fixie. I’m thinking here about Vespa, about electric motorbikes like the zero, and about matching helmets and bags accented by a Burberry tartan scarf. But with few exceptions, the e-bikes I saw resembled at best an unremarkable cheap bike, and at worst, the something tantamount to fashion suicide, right up there with recumbents.


r-i-i-i-ght, fashion.
that's the big missing piece of the puzzle.
that's why advancing ebike fashion is at the forefront that everyone here on the sphere is feverishly working on, not.
everyone here gots plenty excited even without fashion just fine.
for me, as soon as the 'fashionable crowd' gets involved is how i'll know when it's game over.
fashion is always a last resort to lure clueless buyers once the tech has stopped advancing & sales turn stagnant.

amberwolf, pls send this guy a few pix of ur handywork along with Neem's Pride of Pakistan.
CM is sure to crap his shorts when he gets an eyeful of these beauties of innovation.
don't forget to drape it with a Burberry tartan scarf tho to make it look all nice, nice. :roll:

the rest of the article isn't much better with the flawed analogies to automobiles which only serve to undermine his own argument.
i.e. the Ford model T comparison, not exactly a fashion icon.
it sports the very same blockish look that he's now complaining about on ebikes.
the model T's lack of fashion didn't keep people from getting excited about cars or slow down their progress any.
then there's his touting the Tesla as a shining example of a purpose built design, is he even aware that it's an off the shelf Lotus??

and what's with the out-of-the-blu swipe against recumbents & fixies?
don't own either myself, not my cuppa T, but even i feel a little insulted by that.
just another example of his narrow viewpoint & how he's writing on subjects he's only superficially familiar with.
definitely worthy of nomination for the 'safe' award in writing.
 
Toorbough,

I'm not saying ugly or uncool bikes can't be useful. Hell, my bikes are something no one would ever buy, including myself. To gain broad acceptance though, ebikes need some style, and there's no reason the styles need to be restricted to the same forms that pedal bikes have been restricted. I'm also no saying they all need to be futuristic or hip, because successful styles can be as wide ranging as peoples' tastes, but a number of the new ebikes displayed this year really are like "fashion suicide".
 
while there's always gonna be a few duds in every crowd, but for him to opine that they all looked like crap, not a single one to his liking?
there's absolutely nothing wrong with the clean look of the Ghost or Conway.
they were if not totally, then certainly mostly awesome & those weren't lone examples.
in fact most of what i saw from eurobike looked quite alright & while not all resonated with me i certainly wouldn't throw them away if given to me.
the worst that could be pinned on some of them is perhaps somewhat visually boring or un-inspired, but 100% of them ugly, not even close.

i had considered that just maybe he's just being outrageous to stimulate some discussion but now i'm not so sure.
dug a little deeper into his blog to get a better feel for exactly where is his area of bicycle expertise?
turns out he's the marketing director for Specialized which explains why this guy rubbed me wrong soon as he opened his mouth.
this guy is so clearly a full bore 5-star lycra, replete with the snooty self-entitled air of superiority who feels he has the moral authority if not obligation to denigrate anything that's not a racing road-bike.
whether it's bents, fixies, or (wouldn't surprise me) even skateboards & now has set his sights on ebikes only because the company he works for has started selling them, so that makes him some kind of instant expert.

fer sur style has it's place, like icing on the cake it only makes a good thing better.
however fashion is not one of the big 3 problems facing ebikes like he asserts & see it a little as putting the cart b4 the horse.
it's scary to think that someone with such a peculiar & narrow mindset may be in a position to actually influence the shape of ebikes.
i await the Burberry tartan edition from Specialized, should be a big hit but it's not something that i would spend money on.
meanwhile we still go without something as straightforward as a quality purpose-built oem 2 speed transmission.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
while there's always gonna be a few duds in every crowd, but for him to opine that they all looked like crap, not a single one to his liking?
there's absolutely nothing wrong with the clean look of the Ghost or Conway.
they were if not totally, then certainly mostly awesome & those weren't lone examples.
in fact most of what i saw from eurobike looked quite alright & while not all resonated with me i certainly wouldn't throw them away if given to me.
the worst that could be pinned on some of them is perhaps somewhat visually boring or un-inspired, but 100% of them ugly, not even close.

i had considered that just maybe he's just being outrageous to stimulate some discussion but now i'm not so sure.
dug a little deeper into his blog to get a better feel for exactly where is his area of bicycle expertise?
turns out he's the marketing director for Specialized which explains why this guy rubbed me wrong soon as he opened his mouth.
this guy is so clearly a full bore 5-star lycra, replete with the snooty self-entitled air of superiority who feels he has the moral authority if not obligation to denigrate anything that's not a racing road-bike.
whether it's bents, fixies, or (wouldn't surprise me) even skateboards & now has set his sights on ebikes only because the company he works for has started selling them, so that makes him some kind of instant expert.

fer sur style has it's place, like icing on the cake it only makes a good thing better.
however fashion is not one of the big 3 problems facing ebikes like he asserts & see it a little as putting the cart b4 the horse.
it's scary to think that someone with such a peculiar & narrow mindset may be in a position to actually influence the shape of ebikes.
i await the Burberry tartan edition from Specialized, should be a big hit but it's not something that i would spend money on.
meanwhile we still go without something as straightforward as a quality purpose-built oem 2 speed transmission.
I am with you on the sentiment. Why waste time on style when we need the electronics and Batts to be right first. The rest will come with time. Pretty wont get you very far....Well in some instants.
 
Just found it : One of the bikes had a strange looking fork. So , turns out its mavericks fork :

http://www.maverickbike.com/main/do/products/productID/38

Their other products are also not usual ..
Check it out

Marko
 
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