Falco e-Motors

[speedmd]

I am not too sure that your cross bike looks any more factory than the other. It still uses a rather kit like /obvious big bottle battery (with very little capacity), exposed wires and has a unmistakeable big hubby married to a relatively stock bike wheel. Nep could have hidden the controller in a handle bar bag and done some custom conduits for the wire routing, but this is a high powered dynamic build and not sure it is quite finished yet. Completely different animals from a ride standpoint. Not even comparable in the least. If it's fast riding that makes the call, I would not lock into a system that does not allow you to hop it up at all. I understand you not wanting to get into experimenting with stuff that may or may not work well together, but tons of helpful folks here willing to help till the cows come home. The Falco has a hidden controller, but it seems no one knows any real data about them. We were promised way back on this thread to get some real data on them. Would be nice to put the claims to rest.

 

[Ottodog]

I am not too sure that your cross bike looks any more factory than the other. It still uses a rather kit like /obvious big bottle battery (with very little capacity), exposed wires and has a unmistakeable big hubby married to a relatively stock bike wheel. Nep could have hidden the controller in a handle bar bag and done some custom conduits for the wire routing, but this is a high powered dynamic build and not sure it is quite finished yet. Completely different animals from a ride standpoint. Not even comparable in the least. If it's fast riding that makes the call, I would not lock into a system that does not allow you to hop it up at all. I understand you not wanting to get into experimenting with stuff that may or may not work well together, but tons of helpful folks here willing to help till the cows come home. The Falco has a hidden controller, but it seems no one knows any real data about them. We were promised way back on this thread to get some real data on them. Would be nice to put the claims to rest.

Wanted to keep it simple for my first build and Falco has a local dealer. I figured that way I'd have a warranty on the install.I actually want to do a second build using a full suspension Mtn. Bike very similar to what was posted in the thread by Neptronix. Something with a 750 watt or 1000 watt motor. I've seen some aftermarket "Dolphin Style" battery systems that lock to the frame with Samsung cells in them that would suit my needs.

We'll see how it goes with the Falco kit in the mean time. If it's a reliable and consistent performer, and I get the kind of support from Falco I need, I will very likely do another one. Now that I've got it dialed in with the software, I really like how it performs. It feels very powerful compared to the 500 watt e-bikes I've been testing at the e-bike dealer. It's certainly faster (35 mph), so that makes me think the motors are probably rated somewhat conservatively. I'd like to see more testing too, but I can't say I blame Falco for not wanting to post here. Some of the people here seem to have a real hard-on for them. Any chance at a meaningful dialog here died a long time ago in my opinion. I doubt they'll ever be back.

 

[Samd]

Some of the people here seem to have a real hard-on for them. Any chance at a meaningful dialog here died a long time ago in my opinion. I doubt they'll ever be back.

The tribe doesn't get angry unless it is poked. If you read back through the evolution of this thread you'll notice it started in the center horizontal row and then gravitated to the upper right corner the more that Falco refused answers and offered taunts. One of the follwers even went so far as to follow myself, Hyena and a few others into their own threads and throw some sh|t at our stuff. Nice.



This isnt revenge, but man I have to confess Iam feeling somewhat smug at their choices driving their own outcome.

 

[Triketech]

The tribe doesn't get angry unless it is poked. If you read back through the evolution of this thread you'll notice it started in the center horizontal row and then gravitated to the upper right corner the more that Falco refused answers and offered taunts.

Precisely.

As I've said before, the Falco could be the best product to ever be built in India. The trouble is when pressed to provide some specifics like a power efficiency curve and thermal resistance, all they've responded with are irrelevant marketing tidbits like the 5P White Paper.

I get the impression this really could be a very well engineered product but at the same time the lack of simple relevant answers regarding the performance absolutely destroys their integrity. Integrity is a key marketing asset in America and many parts of Europe. Unfortunately marketing integrity is not as valued in some countries like India. Falco doesn't stand a chance in Asia both for cost and cultural reasons, making America and Europe a key market.

Further there are two key market channels for these products, neither is very well positioned or executed. The OEM channel is out of the question given the current business model, which leaves aftermarket kit add-on kits. Bionix dominated that market in part due to very high profit margins to the retailers and extremely low intellect level to sell, service, and install the systems. That limits the number of retailers who will commit and sell the product. In reality they really only have one retailer who actually maintains an inventory in the US as far as I can tell.

I get the impression they are surviving hand-to-mouth based on an extremely flawed marketing plan. The strongest market will come from the DIY community, and both price & real performance is what will drive volume sales. Unfortunately I don't think they have the marketing intellect to understand that. As a result the flawed multi-level business model will probably never really take-off.

That's a real shame if this hubmotor really is what they claim it is.

 

[neptronix]

Joke is in the eye of the beholder. I wanted something that looked understated and OEM and doesn't look like I put it together in my garage. What you have there looks exactly like what it is. A DIY hobby project complete with miles of electrical tape. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not what I wanted for myself. Maybe open your mind up to other possibilities and that not everyone has your taste. I don't see what you have done is "better" than what I have done with my Falco Kit. I"d much prefer what I have. Different strokes my friend.

Lol.. your eye is apparently not good at all. There's no electrical tape whatsoever on or in my bike. I could probably use something nicer than bicycle tubes to hide the wires, but that doesn't matter to me. My bike is not finished, and ultimately the controller and all the wiring will hide in the bag once i upgrade to slightly larger and much denser batteries.

I open my mind up to other possibilities only when they do what my bike can do. If you don't like a bike with 50 miles of range at 30mph and a top speed of 60mph... that is more efficient than the kit you have.. and the cost to build the entire bike was less than your motor kit alone.. just because of some aesthetic sticking points.. you and me will never agree on anything.

The Falco motor is technically inferior to two $200-$300 motors out on the market today. I don't know why you'd want to bother with them.. unless you can get them at a super steep discount and have a supply for the proprietary controller and other bits. I doubt that you will be able to find these parts in the coming years.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I have recently removed several posts that were Off Topic (OT) and had no Falco-specific content.

 

[Ottodog]

I have recently removed several posts that were Off Topic (OT) and had no Falco-specific content.

Thanks. Much appreciated. 8)

My Falco journey continues. Got a call from Cameron on Friday but I missed him when I called back. They must have the 750 watt motors back in stock so we can do the upgrade. I'll find out on Monday. Going to go from 500 watt, 36V to 750 watt, 48V. Hopefully that'll kill two birds with one stone.

 

[arkmundi]

Noooo, don't kill the birds - Let the free bird fly![youtube]qr3dWscslo8[/youtube]

 

[Ottodog]

I saw them live at the Concord Pavillon before the Plane crash. Great concert, but I think I just outed myself for being old...

 

[docnjoj]

Not as old as me. The Byrds is great and will rule forever! McGuinn is 4ever! Sorry, old hippie thinking back. But isn't that band in the video Lynard Skynner?
otherDoc

Whoops, sorry about the OT.

 

[Ottodog]

Not as old as me. The Byrds is great and will rule forever! McGuinn is 4ever! Sorry, old hippie thinking back. But isn't that band in the video Lynard Skynner?
otherDoc

Whoops, sorry about the OT.

It's Lynyrd Skynyrd but the song is "Free Bird".

 

[Tailor]

Just happened onto this thread.

I have bought a falco 500w kit. So far I'm pretty happy with it. Seems to have all the power I was looking for, I like being able to play with its internal settings with the app. I wish it was more clear when you're going to run out of power, but I'm learning how it works.

I was/am thinking of buying another one, but in the process of letting my wife try it out, I ran into an issue when I wanted to swap it to another bike.

Have any of you removed the freewheel once you installed it? If so, which free wheel removal tool did you use? all mine wont go past the axle. I hate to introduce my freewheel removal tools to the drill press, but I'm starting to think I'll have to.

 

[docnjoj]

I don't know about Falco axles, but every motor I have seen has a 12 or 14 mm axle that needs a freewheel removal tool with a larger than stock hole. I bought my last one from Ebikekit, but a number of ebike places sell them including ebikes.ca. You can drill the regular ones out, but they are hardened steel so you will have to buy a number of bits or grinding tools to do this unpleasant task. Much easier to buy one with the big hole already made for you.
otherDoc

 

[arkmundi]

Have any of you removed the freewheel once you installed it? If so, which free wheel removal tool did you use? all mine wont go past the axle. I hate to introduce my freewheel removal tools to the drill press, but I'm starting to think I'll have to.

Welcome. That should not be necessary - you just need the right one. Time to cash in on that famous Falco support and get the right one. Certainly don't subject it to a drill press.

 

[Ottodog]

Have any of you removed the freewheel once you installed it? If so, which free wheel removal tool did you use? all mine wont go past the axle. I hate to introduce my freewheel removal tools to the drill press, but I'm starting to think I'll have to.

I haven't yet, but I'm about to. I want to switch to an 11 tooth version. I bought the freewheel tool they sold on Amazon.com. at the same time I bought the freewheel. Hopefully it works.

Here's a link to the one I got, but again, not sure if it works or not yet, but it was only 8 bucks so I took a chance:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007AI1LGW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


UPDATE: I have an update on my situation too. Talked to Cameron at Falco Motors and they have a new firmware out that will hopefully fix the problem of my settings getting lost after I power down the motor. It also keeps the TS going as long as you're pedaling and doesn't cut out. I decided to upgrade to the 48V system from the 36V system,and they let me do that (with a 25% restocking fee on the old battery). I should get a bit more power and range with that. If the firmware does what they say it will do, I should be good now. 8)

 

[Triketech]

The issues with special tools required for the freewheel could be eliminated if there was a freehub available.

In this image it indicates "Removable and Custom Freewheel or Freehub Adaptor"

They also indicate in their forum that a Freehub version will be released in April 2015.

So I inquired with E-Bikes of New England about the Freehub. They apparently don't know much about bicycle drive systems as they though a freehub was an internally geared system, and directed me to a competitor site.

The reply was a kind gesture, but continues to raise some suspicion. It seems as though if any sort of technical questions (beyond firmware configurations) arise the response is to avoid a direct answer. Extremely difficult to place any trust in that event.

One other question I've had that no one seems to have an answer for is this:

To get the off-road configuration costs an additional $100. Does that require additional hardware or is it just a "pickpocket" fee for the user?

 

[arkmundi]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49849&p=1033158&hilit=simulator#p1033101

Unique 5-phase motor architecture (tremendously reliable, efficient, powerful and torquey as compared to antiquated 3-phase motor technology)

We here on the endless-sphere forum await independent technical evaluation of the claim. The trusted source for that evaluation is the Grin Tech lab, that accepts motors for inclusion it its industry renowned simulator.

 

[mlb2109]

Got my Falco setup on my Catrike Expedition this weekend. First ride this afternoon.
WOW! Quiet as heck, very very little resistance peddling. Smooth as heck.
500w 36v 11.6ah

 

[Ottodog]

Nice MLB! I have the same setup on my Hybrid 700c bike. Just got back from a ride in fact. Did you buy it directly from Falco or through a dealer? 8)

 

[mlb2109]

I bought it used, 6 months old from a guy that bought it from Utah Trikes.
It's a really nice setup isn't it?
SO many setup options and controls that it was very confusing until I watched all the videos and read everything. But now that i'm getting there, it's an awfully sweet setup.
I love to cycle and just want a little boost when I need/want it. I've ridden quite a few commercial models that felt so artifical and "non biking" almost that I was quite particular in what I want.
Being able to tune it to YOUR strength, environment, hills, etc is just awfully nice.

 

[mlb2109]

The Park - FR-1.2 is the correct tool, that looks like it. But you'll still have to drill it out to fit over the axle. That's why the part is $20+ from Falco. Bike shop charged me $15 to drill mine out (I bought from them for $8) and swap out the old 9 spd for my 10 spd. It's hardened steel and about 2" thick where it has to be drilled, so unless you have a drill press and a sharp carbide or whatever bit, I'd find a LBS to do it.
Are you talking to US support? I'm having some similar problems, I'll have to check into it. Please let me know how it goes.

Have any of you removed the freewheel once you installed it? If so, which free wheel removal tool did you use? all mine wont go past the axle. I hate to introduce my freewheel removal tools to the drill press, but I'm starting to think I'll have to.

I haven't yet, but I'm about to. I want to switch to an 11 tooth version. I bought the freewheel tool they sold on Amazon.com. at the same time I bought the freewheel. Hopefully it works.

Here's a link to the one I got, but again, not sure if it works or not yet, but it was only 8 bucks so I took a chance:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007AI1LGW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


UPDATE: I have an update on my situation too. Talked to Cameron at Falco Motors and they have a new firmware out that will hopefully fix the problem of my settings getting lost after I power down the motor. It also keeps the TS going as long as you're pedaling and doesn't cut out. I decided to upgrade to the 48V system from the 36V system,and they let me do that (with a 25% restocking fee on the old battery). I should get a bit more power and range with that. If the firmware does what they say it will do, I should be good now. 8)

 

[Ottodog]

The Park - FR-1.2 is the correct tool, that looks like it. But you'll still have to drill it out to fit over the axle. That's why the part is $20+ from Falco. Bike shop charged me $15 to drill mine out (I bought from them for $8) and swap out the old 9 spd for my 10 spd. It's hardened steel and about 2" thick where it has to be drilled, so unless you have a drill press and a sharp carbide or whatever bit, I'd find a LBS to do it.
Are you talking to US support? I'm having some similar problems, I'll have to check into it. Please let me know how it goes.

Have any of you removed the freewheel once you installed it? If so, which free wheel removal tool did you use? all mine wont go past the axle. I hate to introduce my freewheel removal tools to the drill press, but I'm starting to think I'll have to.

I haven't yet, but I'm about to. I want to switch to an 11 tooth version. I bought the freewheel tool they sold on Amazon.com. at the same time I bought the freewheel. Hopefully it works.

Here's a link to the one I got, but again, not sure if it works or not yet, but it was only 8 bucks so I took a chance:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007AI1LGW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


UPDATE: I have an update on my situation too. Talked to Cameron at Falco Motors and they have a new firmware out that will hopefully fix the problem of my settings getting lost after I power down the motor. It also keeps the TS going as long as you're pedaling and doesn't cut out. I decided to upgrade to the 48V system from the 36V system,and they let me do that (with a 25% restocking fee on the old battery). I should get a bit more power and range with that. If the firmware does what they say it will do, I should be good now. 8)

Ah, it never occurred to me to buy the part from Falco. That's cool they have them. I ended up taking my bike to the bike shop since I wanted to mount a Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tire and I heard those were murder to get on the rim. They put the Freewheel on for free and didn't seem to have any problem with it. They must have the right tools there I guess.

And yep. US support. Mostly have been talking to Rakesh and Cameron. The firmware update cable will be here tomorrow as will my 48V battery. I'll post up some pics and comparisons of the 36V vs. 48V system once I get it installed. I'll also post my impression of the new firmware update. Hopefully that process doesn't take too long. Looks like a pretty simple job to swap the battery, so hopefully I have it out on the road for my ride tomorrow. 8)

 

[mlb2109]

Some of the people here seem to have a real hard-on for them. Any chance at a meaningful dialog here died a long time ago in my opinion. I doubt they'll ever be back.

The tribe doesn't get angry unless it is poked. If you read back through the evolution of this thread you'll notice it started in the center horizontal row and then gravitated to the upper right corner the more that Falco refused answers and offered taunts. One of the follwers even went so far as to follow myself, Hyena and a few others into their own threads and throw some sh|t at our stuff. Nice.



This isnt revenge, but man I have to confess Iam feeling somewhat smug at their choices driving their own outcome.

Ok, thanks for the history lesson.
Now if your through with your pissing contest there are some of us actual users that would like to discuss the setup on the Falco forum without wading through the BS.
Thanks.

8)

 

[mlb2109]

I have a collection of cables that go from USB to what looks like a serial (?) printer cable port that came with my kit. Bet that's what it's for? !

 

[Ottodog]

I have a collection of cables that go from USB to what looks like a serial (?) printer cable port that came with my kit. Bet that's what it's for? !

Yep. It's a USB to serial adapter. Mine is coming from Falco in the morning and we'll iron out that last detail. My Hybrid 700c bike will do 35 mph with my 11T / 48T gearing. So it's definitely got some power. I've been out riding every day since I got it. I'm having a lot of fun with it. 8)