First ebike encounter with LA Police.

[vanilla ice]

I was under the impression the 750w limit was for the manufacturers legal purposes, so they could be made and sold under the same regulations as regular bicycles. IE reflectors, no turn signals, insurance requirements, etc. Nothing to do with road laws. Well that was my understanding, and as usual the laws on this are scattered and confusing.

This link is interesting..

http://www.motoredbikes.com/showpost.php?p=62313&postcount=6

 

[OneEye]

OK, apologies for the bad information. the 30mph limit is indeed for a licensed vehicle.

CVC 406(b) and 24016 carve out the electric bike is a bike niche for <20mph and <1,000W. So the power limit is increased, but the speed limit is not. Among other requirements, the rider must be 16+ and must wear a bicycle helmet. On a normal bicycle a bike helmet is only mandatory for minors.

 

[vanilla ice]

But whats the legal limit for an unlicenced ebike? Thats what I want to know. Or that even a possibility?

I'm with you on the respect thing. My point about saying a few cops may be jerks is, you can't generalize and say do this and you'll always be ok. Also its easy to view all cops as out to get you, but I think we should remember they are people like you and me. I have relatives that are/were cops and they do the same stuff we do. Have bad days, good days. You've got your newbs and old guys. Etc.

I'm tempted to apply for a plate, but I'm worried that would be asking for trouble on the bike path. I've had no problems so far plateless.

 

[jerryt]

In California an electric bicycle is a motorized bicycle in the same category as a gas or electric moped but with a few distinct differences. I’ve included some cut and paste from CVC 406 and the Ca Motorcycle Handbook but here is a (my) short summary:

“Most of us fall under CVC 406b saying we have pedals and an electric motor. (Some people exceed the 20 mph top speed and come under CVC 406a).

We are also subject to CVC 21046 saying adults (16+) do not need an M2 drivers license (additional) or vehicle license plate or vehicle registration or vehicle insurance but do need a helmet.”

Here is the cut and paste
Motorized Bicycle
406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
(b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on ground level.
(3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
(4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this subdivision, shall provide a disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing insurance policies may not provide coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their insurance company or insurance agent to determine if coverage is provided.
Motorized Bicycle Electric Motor: Safety and Equipment Requirements
24016. (a) A motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 shall meet the following criteria:
(1) Comply with the equipment and manufacturing requirements for bicycles adopted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (16 C.F.R. 1512.1, et seq.) or the requirements adopted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (49 C.F.R. 571.1, et seq.) in accordance with the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (15 U.S.C. Sec. 1381, et seq.) for motor driven cycles.
(2) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied, or operate in a manner such that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.
(b) All of the following apply to a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406:
(1) No person shall operate a motorized bicycle unless the person is wearing a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet that meets the standards described in Section 21212.
(2) A person operating a motorized bicycle is subject to Sections 21200 and 21200.5.
(3) A person operating a motorized bicycle is not subject to the provisions of this code relating to financial responsibility, driver's licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and a motorized bicycle is not a motor vehicle.
(4) A motorized bicycle shall only be operated by a person 16 years of age or older.
(5) Every manufacturer of a motorized bicycle shall certify that it complies with the equipment and manufacturing requirements for bicycles adopted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (16 C.F.R. 1512.1, et seq.).
(c) No person shall tamper with or modify a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 so as to increase the speed capability of the bicycle.
Added Sec. 3, Ch. 804, Stats. 1995. Effective January 1, 1996.

CALIFORNIA MOTORCYCLE HANDBOOK

MOTOR-DRIVEN CYCLES A motor-driven cycle is:
• A motorcycle with a 149 cc or less engine size. NOTE: You may not operate a motor-driven cycle on a freeway if signs are posted to prohibit motor-driven cycle operation.

MOTORIZED BICYCLES There are two definitions of motorized bicycle (moped). A motorized bicycle is:
• A two- or three-wheeled device, capable of no more than 30 mph on level ground, and equipped with:
-fully operative pedals for human propulsion.
-an internal combustion engine producing less than two gross brake horsepower and an automatic transmission.
- an electric motor, with or without pedals for human propulsion. (VC §406[a])
• A vehicle with pedals and an electric motor (not more than 1,000 watts) which cannot be driven at speeds of more than 20 mph on level ground even if assisted by human power. The motor must stop when the brakes are applied or the starter switch is released. (VC §406).

If you operate a motorized bicycle which meets the definition of VC §406, you:
• Must be 16 years of age or older.
• Must wear a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet.
• Are exempt from the motor vehicle financial responsibility, driver license, and moped plate requirements. (VC §12804.9) You may ride a moped in a bicycle lane at a reasonable speed. Be careful of bicyclists using the lane.
MOTORIZED SCOOTER A motorized scooter is defined as any two-wheeled “device” with:
• A motor, handlebars, and a floorboard for standing on when riding, and
• The options of having
- a driver seat which cannot interfere with the operator’s ability to stand and ride.
- the ability to be powered by human propulsion. The motorized scooter’s exhaust system must not be modified or altered.

LICENSE REQUIREMENTS
California issues the following license classes for two-wheel vehicle operation:
• Class M1—You may operate any two-wheel motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, or motorized scooter and all vehicles listed under Class M2. NOTE:The permit and license requirements in this handbook pertain to two-wheel vehicles and are referenced in Section 12804.9 of the Vehicle Code.
• Class M2—You may operate any motorized bicycle, any bicycle with an attached motor, or a motorized scooter. You may obtain a Class M1 or M2 license at any DMV office which provides driver license services. Motorcycle law tests and skill tests are required. NOTE: Class C licensees may operate a motorcycle with a side car attached or a three-wheel motorcycle.

EARNING YOUR LICENSE Safe riding requires knowledge and skill. Testing two-wheel vehicle operators is the best measurement of the skills necessary to operate safely in traffic because people often overestimate their own abilities. DMV’s licensing exams are designed to be scored objectively.
To obtain your license, you must pass a knowledge test and an on-cycle skill test. Knowledge test questions are based on information, practices, and ideas from this manual. They require that you know and understand road rules and safe riding practices. An on-cycle skill test will either be conducted in an actual traffic environment or in a controlled off-street area.

APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS —ALL DRIVERS
These are the requirements if you already have a basic class driver license. Refer to the California Driver Handbook for basic class driver license requirements. To obtain an instruction permit to operate an M1/M2 vehicle on public roads, you must:
• Submit a completed DMV application form (DL 44).
• Pay the required application fee.
• Pass an eye exam.
• Have your picture taken.
• Give a thumb print.
• Pass a test(s) on traffic laws and signs for the class of license you now have unless you have taken the test(s) within the prior twelve months.
• Pass an additional law test on motorcycle driving rules. NOTE: The Class M1/M2 permit does not allow you to carry passengers and you must ride during daylight hours only and not on a freeway.

MINORS’ M1/M2 PERMIT REQUIREMENTS
To obtain a Class M1/M2 permit, you must:
• Be 15 ½ years of age and bring proof you have finished both driver education and driver training. (DL 387, DL 388, DL 388A, OL 237, or OL 238).
• Complete the application requirements.
• Have your parents’ * signatures on the application form.

MINORS’ M1/M2 LICENSE REQUIREMENTS To obtain a Class M1/M2 license, you must:
• Complete the requirements listed above.
• Be at least 16 years old.
• Applicants under 21 years of age are required by law to provide a Completion of Motorcycle Training certificate (DL 389) from an approved CHP motorcycle rider training course. The skill test is waived for any person presenting a valid DL 389. Motorcycle training courses are located throughout California. For more information and to locate the nearest training site, call 1-877-RIDE411.

ADULTS’ M1/M2 PERMIT REQUIREMENTS To obtain a Class M1/M2 instruction permit, you must:
• Complete the application requirements. • Be 18 years of age, or older.

LICENSE REQUIREMENTS—ALL DRIVERS To obtain a Class M1/M2 license, you must:
• Complete the application and permit requirements listed above.
• If you are 21 years of age or older, you can attend a CHP approved motorcycle training course. If you complete this motorcycle training course and submit a valid DL 389, your insurance cost may be reduced. Check with your insurance company to see if you qualify for a reduced rate. Additionally, the knowledge and skills you learn in this motorcycle rider training course may help you avoid a serious injury or a fatal collision. This motorcycle training course is highly recommended.
• Pass a DMV skill test or present a DL 389 to waive the skill test.
• Pass a road test, if you are applying for a Class M1/M2 license only. ON-CYCLE SKILL TEST Basic vehicle control and crash-avoidance skills are included in on-cycle tests to determine your ability to handle normal and hazardous traffic situations.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Also its easy to view all cops as out to get you, but I think we should remember they are people like you and me. I have relatives that are/were cops and they do the same stuff we do. Have bad days, good days. You've got your newbs and old guys. Etc.

I'm not that concerned about individual cops who for the most part wouldn't give a rats a$$ about ebikes, though you might find one or two keeners that go over & above the call, mostly in Fla. it seems.
What I'm talking about is that at some point (depending on how the economy turns & looks like only downhill from here) ebikes are going to reach a critical mass (to borrow a phrase) or a tipping point (to borrow another).
Then the word is going to come down from higher up to crack down, meaning here's another revenue stream were overlooking.
So no point in giving them an advanced education on what to look for & make their job easier.
I mean they're pretty tight with their information like police band frequencies.
Even though they're publicly available they don't tell you where you can look them up becuz they know information is critical, knowledge is power.

I don't know, I just think that once the cat is out of the bag just how fast these things can be made to go, the polis generally do not like that someone is more agile & quicker than what they got.
Cuz around here they really harass the motorcyclists (I don't ride but most my friends do).
It wouldn't surprise me that they'll take the same attitude with ebikes once their true capabilities penetrate their collective conciousness, & view them as no different.
Right now we're still insulated by the stereotype that electric means pokey.

 

[iberkt]

This document seems to contradict itself.

406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.

So you think 30 mph great Then it goes on to say:

(b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on ground level.

These guys can't seem to make up their minds is it 20 mph or 30 mph :?

Wait I think I fugured it out

The first part says

having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.

So you can go 30 mph if it is an electric scooter (no pedals) and you can only 20 mph if it is an electric bike (with pedals).

Is that right

 

[vanilla ice]

So what we're saying is as far as road rules go, in CA a 200 watt ebicycle is legally in the same category as a 2hp 30mph gasser moped? That sucks.

I wonder if my currie has an ID number stamped in it somewhere. In case I'm stupid enough to actually go and plate it.

 

[jerryt]

Vanilla,
An ebike like yours with pedals, under 20 mph etc. you do NOT have to have it plated or registered
A iCE or e-moped (no pedals, 30 MPH +) has to have a plate (one time only).
A scooter (Vespa, Honda Metropolitan, etc has to have a license plate yearly.

Edit: The law usually refers to CVC 406a and 406b (separate categories within motorized 2 or 3 wheelers)

 

[SF1901]

This document seems to contradict itself.

406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.

So you think 30 mph great Then it goes on to say:

(b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on ground level.

These guys can't seem to make up their minds is it 20 mph or 30 mph :?

Wait I think I fugured it out

The first part says

having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.

So you can go 30 mph if it is an electric scooter (no pedals) and you can only 20 mph if it is an electric bike (with pedals).

Is that right

If you ever get pulled over and cited, take the time to see what vehicle code they cited you on. With the code being all confusing and contradicting, most of us do not handle alot of these and when we do, we cite them under the wrong code and you can fight this in court and win. Make you sure you're familiar with these laws because it will definitely win battles (in court atleast).

But the only thing we can get you on would be going over the speed limit, running a red light, etc. Anything minor to cite you and take most of your time. So bottom line, they'll probably cite you on a running a red light than CVC 406.a or other ebike violations because they're too hard to justify in court. But if a hard ass cop that really knows his VC, he can legally confiscate your ebike if you're going well over 30+ just like those miniture bikes riding around the blocks with no registration and license.

 

[OneEye]

406(a) is the moped class where you need a license plate and an operator's (rider's) license (class M2?). This speed limit is 30mph

406(b) is the e-bike class, which under 24016 is exempted from license plate and operator's licensing requirements. Stick below 20mph and you should be able to use any bicycle path/lane/route (class I, II or III) with no problem (interpretations may vary). Operator must be 16+ and wear a bike or scooter helmet.

If you exceed 20mph, you have now moved into the 406(a) classification and require a plate and operator's license. Additionally, I think you are also prohibited from bike paths that are not adacent to a roadway (class I / bike path). You can still use class II (bike lane) and class III (bike route / shared lane).

Thanks to everyone who clarified this mess for me.

 

[vanilla ice]

Thats not the way I interpret the way the laws are written, but I hopefully I'm wrong. The way I read it you need a special plate, but no yearly reg. Just like the guy who sells CA whizzers wrote out in that link I posted.

In any case it don't matter, nobody knows what to make of them laws in any case. Maybe I will print all the crap out and attach copies to my bikes. Just in case I need to confuse somebody who thinks they aren't confused.

Edit: Hrms, I read through page 2, and now I see the plate exemption. Thats good. I don't understand why the electric descriptions are listed under both "a" and "b" sections if the intention is that they fall under "b" only.

And I also see the "shall not tamper" part. Thats not good. Seems like thats too general and open to interpretation. For example, I've added an additional battery to my commercially available currie to get it to 20mph. Is that tampering? Its still at the legal mph limit even though I've upped the voltage.

I mean I know in the real world none of this probably will come in to play, but it still insterests me to think about the letter of the law. And what about the folks who do builds from scratch? What is tampering in that case?

 

[OneEye]

(c) No person shall tamper with or modify a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 so as to increase the speed capability of the bicycle.

Hrm. I can see it being read either way. One way to read is if you "tamper" and it still complies with 406(b) it is still a 406(b) bicycle. Under a different reading you tampered with it, so even though it would still comply with 406(b) as a new product you are in violation of this subsection.

Seems like a kit builder or custom bike would qualify under 406(b) as long as it meets the speed and wattage limits and has the brake disconnect or "dead-man" style throttle featue required by 24016