Frockfest

FrockFest Beta

M'kay, I got there a little later than expected... I had hired a van for the event, and kinda got distracted by how much space it offered, so packed up most of my tools, and a fair quantity of parts, crates, carpet scraps for flooring, a chair, 12 * 5ah 6s, 2*5ah 8s, and 4 * 8ah 5s, A bunch of LiPoFe4, including some thunderskies for a charging station, a couple of chargers, invertors, complete electrical repair kit, zip ties, tubes, tires, the "shop Bike" (basically a solid build with a 10 amp controller, you choose the voltage...) A Kit bike built for carrying shite, a 3/4 complete lightweight dually for mid power, and a bike trailer. Oh and three helmets, two sets of body armour, water and first aid kit...

Got it all rolling and arrived at the gravel carpark on Racecourse road nigh on 10 am... kinda knew my original plan of 7am was a bit.... mmm... hopeful :D

Full-throttle and Alan-c and alan's son sean were already there, Alan with his trike, trailer, generator and stuff, Full-throttle with his standard tools bike water and food.

I brought about a third of the stuff in, three trips with the shite carrrying bike + trailer, n rigged up a 14s 10ah battery to run on the shop bike, calculating at max charge this would give me around 58v, within the limit of the 62v caps of my no name brand kit controllers... and around max power 600w

(The shop bike is basically a quality alloy hard-tail, with reasonable Disc RockShox on the front, and modified vintage road bike side pull brakes on the rear (no v-brake mounts and motor not set up for disc) Strangeley enough I get better braking power off the modded sidepulls than I get from shitty discs on other builds...)

Alan and full-throttle did a few laps, The trike is something else, not really "needing" the same level of traction, and Alan balls to the wind throwing it around corners... the track did mete out some punishment to the trike over the day, (namely derailleur disintegrated, Flat on the driven rear, and the two front tyres, new for the day were down to "canvas" by the end :D)

T3sla rocked up without a bike and looking pretty sad, and then Bout this time Sam arrived first with the Aprilia, (later to bring the Aldi bike, a nice inspirational build) and a few laps more were had by all, and then around midday I guess, with Sam needing to leave soon, we mashed together a race format of sorts and did the do...

No-Need-For traction and power had Alan C running front from the start, Full-throttle's skillz had him not totally outclassed by Alan, and good to see... Sam had me by about half a lap slowly increasing over the race length...

the race format was a little haphazard to say the least, and so after performing the mandatory pedal only lap on cue, and being passed twice by the front runners still under full power while I did it, I withdrew from the race in Fourth place....

Track assessment... It's bloody grouse!
Yup bumpy as, still plenty of scope for cleaning out excess shrubbery, but the crew did a good job last weekend... there is one straight (the main straight) and one corner (the corner after the straight) where a racing line on un broken surface where it counts can be had, all other corners, either ball bearing gravel or sand, and shit loads of bumps in the middle twisty bit.

600w in the configuration I had was pretty pointless... with a head wind directly against on on the main straight, I got a max speed of 27kp/h, which is pretty piss poor when you compare it with my runs on an uncleaned track on Shorza's bike, where I was reaching 50km/h by the end of the straight. Was good testing though as I wanted to see how 14s would go through my controllers, worked okay on 10 amp, and would be happy to try it out on 20... but truth be known, I reckon a 1-2kw machine with a top speed of around 50 and good torque would have shaken some tailfeathers... I real low end torque monster, ridden like a dirt bike would have given Alan a run for it's money, (In slight disagreement here with Sam, as weight and light and nimble can be matched by grunt and track ripping power slides out of corners anyday :D)

Pit Assessment
(as you prolly figured by now, I pretty much was planning on running the pits, ready to keep racers on the track)

A few giggles from the lads about how much stuff I'd brought, but... meh... With a few more racers on builds of various finesse, who knows what could have fallen off on the track :D

With so few bikes turning up, I pretty much had all the minor shite covered, one derailleur and one uber awesome tube, (chain repair for The Beastie was "off-track" so doesn't count).

Didn't even set up a charging station so was superflouous for the day, but with more participants.... hmmm

Merlin n The Beastie got delayed by Logistics (Ferry issues) and I reckon if they hada made it in time for a race they would have livened things up, both on mid-powered machines and with rev-head mentalities (I gather they raced each other on the track for a few laps on there way to meet up with the rest of the crew post race lunch)

FrockFest Beta, cos it wasn't really an organised race....
wont take much to get a format down on paper and the equipment to marshal/ call it well (EG a clipboard some paper, a pen and a stopwatch, plus someone who wants to do it) and a bit of pre-planning n stuff will no doubt ramp now that the cherry has been popped.

Joe

.
 
Youtube vids now public. Still rough tho.
 
I will post the laptimes shortly

In t3sla's defense - it looks like there was a miscommunication issue. The idea was for him to sound the horn at the beginning of the last lap to let the rider know, what he actually did is to sound the horn to each rider when the leader of the race was on the last lap. The horn run out of air after one rider.
 
full-throttle said:
... The horn run out of air after one rider.
LOL that'd be me, no? :D

hah! I don't think any of us had much idea as to what was going on and t3sla had to do what he could with a mish mash of stuff and no set race plan... it was a lost cause from the start but he put up a seriously good fight, getting laps and lap times n stuff... nobody did wrong...

AND next time it will be better... :D

And I will bring some big eff off drag anchor and ambush Alan C when he is not looking so the trike is slowed to a crawl! Mwahahaha! Still gotta think how I can sledge Full-throttle so he can't see the corners through his tears.... gotta be a chink in that inhumanly cool exterior... and so long as T3sla doesn't get a bike and if no-one shows up...

I"LL WIN!

4 EVA!

FROCkFEST FTW !!!1one!

Joe
 
Going through video footage:
alanc did 17 powered laps with the average of 0:45 per lap and 0 pedal-only laps (average for the first 10 powered laps 0:44)
full-throttle did 17 powered laps with the average of 0:48 per lap and 1 (1:04), pedal-only lap (average for the first 10 powered laps 0:47)
Samd did 13 powered laps with the average of 0:55 per lap and 0 pedal-only laps (average for the first 10 powered laps 0:54)
winkinatcha did 8 powered laps with the average of 0:59 per lap and 1 (2:04) pedal-only lap
alanc junior did 8 powered laps with the average of 0:1:20 per lap and 0 pedal-only laps

Since the rules were 10 powered laps and 1 pedal-only lap, the standings are:
alanc DNF (insufficient number of pedal-laps)
full-throttle 1st place
Samd DNF (insufficient number of pedal-laps)
winkinatcha DNF (insufficient number of powered laps)
alanc junior DNF (insufficient number of powered and pedal-lap)

:mrgreen:
 
Still trying to work out how Joe figured he'd been the first to score the air horn despite declaring that he'd been overtaken by me at least once :)

Funny that we'd clocked up so many extra laps and stopped counting - it was too much fun to count. :twisted:
 
Air horn was scored cos I was close to start finish line when Alan C did his tenth lap which triggered T3sla to blow horn and confirm to me that I needed to do my pedal lap......
You overtook me on said pedal lap... Extra time on pedal lap due to stopping n grabbing yer cell meter from the track

Confusing much? :D

Joe
 
I had an absolute ball. Tipped it over twice in practice, busted a deraileur,got a pinch flat(on the rear :shock: ) wore out a set of brand new tyres(down to the canvas :twisted: ) busted a chain. All in all a great day. Many thanks to Joe(Winkinatya)for an awsome new tube and Full Throttle for helping find and fix my deraileur :D. Thanks to tesla and everone else who made this happen it was a great day. Ps next time I will charge my battrey after practice so Ive got a fresh batt for the race :twisted:
 
I wish I was there.
full-throttle said:
Going through video footage:
alanc did 17 powered laps with the average of 0:45 per lap and 0 pedal-only laps (average for the first 10 powered laps 0:44)...
Going through the video is a lot of work. Perhaps the event could benefit from some better instrumentation. Everyone probably has a smart phone so you could use Strava or something similar. In Strava you can make the track a segment and a club for everyone that attends. You will then get a ranked list of lap times. Unfortunately it would not give a ranked list of race times as it can't count laps, but it will give a distance for each ride and speed and time. You count your own laps and if you do too many you can still get the time for the correct number directly from the Strava plot. It can do cadence and heart rate easily if you add the sensors. With some effort it could record power as well. Ideally it would be nice to see human and bike power recorded but that would require a lot of effort.

The data would be available to all, for any sort of analysis that interested you without any effort from the organisers.
 
The reason I had to go through the video is only because the riders got confused by signalling (or the lack of) - some did not know when to stop, some stopped too early.
I can post the video, it's 16 minutes long. Who wants to see it?

For the next race we will make sure everyone understands the rules and the signalling works.
 
Brute said:
Glad yez all had a good time & sorry I couldn`t make it . Hopefully next time . Question, could a 4 wheel drive be driven right to the track ?
You wouldn't be able to drive right next to the track. It's only a few hundred meters away. I had everything in a hiking pack, Alan and Joe had trailers.

Should we do another one in a month's time?

Would be good to see a couple of high-powered bikes on the track. Things should get interesting :mrgreen:
We had everyone racing in the same class. Joe would prob prefer 2 classes next time.
 
You could have 2 wheels race vs a 3 wheelers trike.
I was thinking if you want a bigger turn out you might have to scrap the first 2 rules of Frockfest, that is "you dont talk about frockfest.." no matter how cool it sounds :)
Actually the funny thing is, even with that single small race I had with Merlin, I felt the fight club sense, as I felt 12 years old again with adrenaline trying to beat him on the track. "Afterwards, all I could think about was fightclub.."

I think the location is a bit of a put off for some, me and Merlin happen to live not too far away from the CBD Yarra berths that head out to Willams town, every ferry mob we talked to were OK with us bringing our bikes on board.

Here is some shots of us getting from Melbourne to Williams town, we just rode, boated, rode to the event. There was just enough juice for me to get home practically, I had to use the trusty bafang to tow Merlins conhismotor/golden motor bike home, he used up too much battery trying to break his personal speed record going down to the fish n chips shop after.
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full-throttle said:
Brute said:
Glad yez all had a good time & sorry I couldn`t make it . Hopefully next time . Question, could a 4 wheel drive be driven right to the track ?
You wouldn't be able to drive right next to the track. It's only a few hundred meters away. I had everything in a hiking pack, Alan and Joe had trailers.

Should we do another one in a month's time?

Would be good to see a couple of high-powered bikes on the track. Things should get interesting :mrgreen:
We had everyone racing in the same class. Joe would prob prefer 2 classes next time.
I have a Fighter , not sure if thats considered high powered . I`d also like to bring my 12 year old son who has a 500 watt clunker .
I`d like to do it in another month but I have one of those jobs where im pretty much on call , so if something breaks I have to go . Makes it so hard to commit to things .
 
Samd said:
Youtube vids now public. Still rough tho.
That bit at the end along the sand looks like a smoother race surface than the track! :p

Throw up your vid as is if you dont feel like editing it FT
 
I'm happy to turn up once a month every month even if there is only one other rider, I'll prolly crack the shits after a while n stop bringing extra pit stuff if numbers remain low but for the next four or so iterations I am willing to bring a van n gear.

Personally I reckon if there is 5 or less riders, no point in having different classes... For more riders on the track, I am not too happy mixing low power with high power.

If there were to be classes of e-racer I'd tend towards

< 1kw Low power
1kw-3kw Mid power
3kw and above High power

For the record, it is unlikely in the future I will race anything less than mid power :twisted:

BUT I am still dead keen on setting something up as a class using the first batch of new wheel kits I got, 26" cohnis DD motors with controllers capable of 25amps surge, now tested at 14s (roughly 58v off the Charger) at 10amps about to bump this up to 25 amp and after a Chat With Sam on the day, am pretty confident they'll be able to run 15s, so long as within the voltage limits of the 62v caps....
if anyone is keen I'll even maintain a spare racing bike for someone else to race on the day..

So yeah

Bring It
 
winkinatcha said:
if anyone is keen I'll even maintain a spare racing bike for someone else to race on the day..

So yeah

Bring It

Wow , a sponsored ride with full factory support , yeah baby . Somebody`s got jump at that .
Agree with you on the power classes .
 
hmmm where to start? How about at the end!

The self proclaimed 'victor' (Full Throttle) and his spoils (Hub 'stator' which will be used a future trophy)
View attachment 6

Results
scores.png
Alan_C with a time of 7:26
Full-Throttle pedal lap 1:04

I should have continued to keep individual lap count as one of the leader could have a DNF, in an alternate universe or something 8)

huh?
IMGP3714.JPG

ohhhh
IMGP3716 (1).JPG


If you build it........ :shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMcQKz3H0yY
IMGP3679.JPG

Sam on his dual drive with 29er front :wink:
View attachment 1

playing to win, the helmet lets you know he means business
IMGP3703.JPG

I had fun and we learnt how to better the event and what doesn't work.

-Use a flag to show that a rider is on his last lap
-Don't use a small air horn that is good for one toot
-Reconsider how we want to categorically deal with the power variation
->low/high power separated
->numerical limited
->rider discretion

-Don't encourage allan to change from a 9C to his X5

-Everyone has too much fun to care about anything other than doing another lap, but the pedal lap does change everything.

My thoughts, pedal lap first everyone's lap time is recorded.
When that is completed the race begins, makes for easier and safer racing.
 
winkinatcha said:
< 1kw Low power
1kw-3kw Mid power
3kw and above High power

Much like the .2kw law it's hard to govern, peaks, phase amps, mid drive Armageddon and what not.


How about instead of power we go for battery voltage limits <16S and an open category?

I eagerly await the smart ass who tries to argue 12V sla (even if it's really 2V a cell) is one cell and has to try and deal with 192V setup.
 
full-throttle said:
Since the rules were 10 powered laps and 1 pedal-only lap, the standings are:
alanc DNF (insufficient number of pedal-laps)
full-throttle 1st place
Samd DNF (insufficient number of pedal-laps)
winkinatcha DNF (insufficient number of powered laps)
alanc junior DNF (insufficient number of powered and pedal-lap)

The way I see it you are all winners for preparing, organising and competing in Australia's first (semi) official E- bike race, conrats to all, looked like too much fun to care about results anyway but we all like to think we are better sometimes
 
Haha! mate if anyone is going to try to bullshit about the POWER of their bike, well they are a twat n I doubt that there would be much reward in it.

Screw the arbitrary voltage "s" nomenclature, give me the current of your controller, the voltage of your pack at full charge, I will multiply them together and deliver a Power figure, Piss easy any chemistry blah blah blah. Don't give a stuff about torque, wheel diameter, and quality of gaffer tape... just gimme the figures for Max Electrical Power consumption and go from there... even if this means that a 500w rated mid drive shits all over a 4kw DD it will be something to note.

I Personally Do Not Want a Bunch Of Above 1 Kw Machines With Mad ES Racers On em Mixing It With 12 yr Old Kids on 500W or Less... (!) and at the same time I want those kids and anyone else who wants to have a bash on a LOW Power machine out there on the track... just without mixing it with revheads and the impatient and Easily Frustrated (such as Me).

So ... Lets assume that racers aren't gonna be trying to BS their way into a low power category on a Hi power machines... makes life easier.

Joe

Edit:
mmmm wish there was some neat way to make a side discussion on classifications... Was just thinking maybe a timed powered lap to figure the category might work?
Say sub 50 seconds for Open category? above 50 seconds Standard Class?

Joe
 
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