Going to Hawaii, possibly with a bike

L

Lowell

100 kW
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
1,695
Location
Vancouver
Some friends are getting married on Feb 4, 2008, and it just so happens they picked Hawaii 8)

Right now I'm tossing around the idea of shipping a bike over and laying a beating on a certain 'world record' owned by a former member here which involves a 36 mile, 10,000ft climb. I'd like some input on bike designs, and the sky's the limit. I'd like to build something challenging, the ebike equivalent of these automotive pieces I built:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1979

Manual machining, fabrication, welding, composites, aluminum, titanium, CrMo I can do myself. Additionally, this is my old landlord, who owns a 20,000sq/ft CNC machine shop. :D :D :D
http://www.mahlerindustries.com/
 
That's ten-thousand & five foot climb!
You need something with high eficency & a light wait motor with pwerful magnets & a kevlar sproket & ....

I'm swearing off aluminum & looking to give titanium a try, so that would be my recommendation for frame material.
As a fellow Canucklehead I'd luv to see you give the homegrown eMoli's a showcase & with a stronger frame can load up with a lot more of them.
Are you planning on sticking with the X5 or looking for something Perm/Etek size?
Don't forget the kevlar sprocket, even if it's just for a hood ornament.
Bon chance & here's hoping you shatter the 'record' by a wide margin.
 
Lowell said:
Some friends are getting married on Feb 4, 2008, and it just so happens they picked Hawaii 8)

Right now I'm tossing around the idea of shipping a bike over and laying a beating on a certain 'world record' owned by a former member here which involves a 36 mile, 10,000ft climb.
Click to expand...

:lol:

You should do it with your "girl scout hubmotor". In the 20" wheel, the 5304 or 5305 should be running close enough to peak efficiency at 20-30mph. That'd just leave batteries...

I come up with about a 3000 watt-hour pack to make that climb at 20mph; about 4,000 w-h at 30mph (with some headroom for the grade changes and 80% DoD).
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

This may be a job for Mega-Lipo pack: 23 of these 50ah babies should provide 3,500 usable w-h ...
http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1967
3.7V50Ah.jpg


Or a 23s5p pack of 10ah high-rate lipos:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3819

Or something like that....
 
Assuming the whole purpose of the exercise is for a certain former member to eat feces while the record is beaten with a hub motor, perhaps it is equally important to make the journey with a standard bicycle conversion rather than a specially built machine that would surely provide excuses for the feces eating former member.

For mountain climbing purposes the Crystallyte "Cruiser" would probably give you a true 25 MPH uphill and never breathe hard as long as you provided a couple/three 48 volt 20 AH LIPO battery packs that could be changed over without stopping.

Money need not be spent shaving a couple pounds off a bike but on the batteries themselves which could in turn be resold at the end of the event and garner most, if not all, of the investment back.

While I have been to Hawaii on a few occasions and have even traveled the famed "Road to Hana" in a rental car, I live in the flatlands of N. Florida and consider bridges to be mountains. This could skew my approach however I have read many of the Hawaiian former members posting and the demolition of his braggadocio, should it be completed on a standard "beach" bike, would be complete.

Planning for such an event is often a lot more fun than the event itself therefore planning should be complete.

Good luck, sounds like fun, even like something I would do.
Mike
 
Just to p.ss a certain person off I would love to see you do it with a hub motor, but if you do I would be tempted to drop to a 16" wheel (is that possible with a 5 series?) to get more torque and to keep in the max efficiency range for the long climb.
Or how about a pair of Pumas front and rear, you would disappear so fast you should have time for a picnic on the way, Randy only averaged 12.2 mph and acording to the article in his sig he walked some of it as his batteries started to die. Plus 2 motors mean redundancy.
And if this part of the article is accurate "Not only is the road too steep, averaging 5% in grade but with long stretches over 15%" a 500w BB drive would easily beat him, with pedalling I can ride up 20% inclines at over half that speed with a Tonxing 160w geared hub and 12 kg of SLAs.
I think it will mainly be having enough AH of batteries

Link to the article if anyone is interested http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=562

Mind you I think Randy will be a no show.
 
Very similar to Xyster.
Alteratively modify the Strong ebike from CT which has an geared hubmotor, similar to Puma. 40A X-controller, 60V Li battery, 20" wheels etc.
 
Ypedal said:
24v 30ah packs are available i'm told..

http://www.falconev.com/batteries.html
Click to expand...

37lbs per pack is 3 times the weight of conventional li-ion.
mvadventure said:
as you provided a couple/three 48 volt 20 AH LIPO battery packs that could be changed over without stopping.
Click to expand...

Particularly with a hubmotor, unless the grade of the steepest section is known in advance, high-voltage/low amperage is the safer bet. The batteries will run easier too. Lowell has a true 100 volt controller.
 
Lowell, Randy's trying to move the goal posts already.

"5 grand if you make it to the top riding your ebike in less than 3 hours in one charge on one set of batteries as the power sorce using no more than1584 watt hours of battery power plus any pedaling."

He used more power than this on his attempt and still had to walk.

I would seriously consider mounting a backup controller just in case.
 
Once the 'record' is established, nobody give a rats a$$ over the fine points over how it was done, that it doesn't count because someone else did it with one leg tied behind his back. The gauntlet will have been thrown, anything else is just sour grapes chirping. The trump card response will always be, 'best my time' & prove yourself faster.
 
yep i agree with the previous post - front and rear pumas.

so are you basically aiming at "sex on wheels" kind of a look, or more insane in the actual build (with a custom frame etc)?

if your after standard bike frame:
i'm thinking of a nice mountain bike frame - say a team one - (composite frame!!) http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-AU/bikes/mountain/1336/29476/ with

front and rear puma motor painted black with black battery packs and black controllers.... I think they look sexy, and the symmetry of two hub motors would be insane. i think so far the best looking bike i've seen is the one attached below.


if you're after a custom frame - go titanium, low weight - and its not a common metal to have a frame made out of. i've got a veilside titanium exhuast - i love how insanely light it is! a full TI bike would be crazy!
 

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
Yeah, that's a good lookin bike.
Too bad the seat tube broke. :D
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well maybe thats where the titanium can come into it?

but honestly - there isn't a lot of room for batteries on that bike - which is why i suggested the hard tail in the actual text.
 
I agree, you need strength from every corner of the bike you can get to support as many batteries as possible.
The trend of continually reducing the angle of the rear triangle isn't helping our cause any.
But if I've been reading between the lines correctly, I think Lowell is defiantly looking to go FS on his next build.
 
Not that he's not justifiably proud of his current steed, but it does have the prototypical ebike look.
If his post at the start of this thread is anything to go by, it needs to be heart stopping in looks as well as performance, i.e. a tour-de-force showcase.
I think he's looking to impress some people.
 
I sure would hate to spend a lot of time and effort just to be beaten by a loudmouth with a walmart bike and a homemade motor.

I'd just ship my bike over and see if it can do it.

:?
 
TylerDurden said:
Any reason why Lowell's current bike wouldn't do?

Draper's old-saw was that a stock hubmotor would smoke on a long uphill ride.

:?:
Click to expand...

Lowell's present bike should work great -- all accept for the (4)24V18ah NiMH battery packs.
 
TylerDurden said:
I sure would hate to spend a lot of time and effort just to be beaten by a loudmouth with a walmart bike and a homemade motor.

I'd just ship my bike over and see if it can do it.

:?
Click to expand...

Well, that's racing. Ya know, any given day, yadda yadda..
I hope Lowell leaves himself enuf time for a proper shakedown.
Hate to have to see him lose it over iffy connection somewhere.
 
1584Wh/ 3hrs = 528W

5% avg. slope = 462W @ 15mph

462 / 528 = .875

88% eff. @15mph for 3 hrs to beat Draper

77% eff. @12mph for 3 hrs to match Draper

The hubsim shows a x5 @ high eff. using 50% throttle in a 20" wheel. I don't think the hubsim calculates copper and PWM losses (up to 25%).

:?:
 

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TylerDurden said:
1584Wh/ 3hrs = 528W

5% avg. slope = 462W @ 15mph

462 / 528 = .875

88% eff. @15mph for 3 hrs to beat Draper

77% eff. @12mph for 3 hrs to match Draper

The hubsim shows a x5 @ high eff. using 50% throttle in a 20" wheel. I don't think the hubsim calculates copper and PWM losses (up to 25%).

:?:
Click to expand...

Heck with Randy's self-serving watt-hour limitation -- I say blow his time-to-top "record" out of the Hawaiian water. An average 25mph should be possible with Lowell's 5304/20" and a 3000-4000 watt-hour ~60 lb Lipoly pack.
 
xyster said:
Heck with Randy's self-serving watt-hour limitation -- I say blow his time-to-top "record" out of the Hawaiian water. An average 25mph should be possible with Lowell's 5304/20" and a 3000-4000 watt-hour ~60 lb Lipoly pack.
Click to expand...

No point in pulling an Ayrton Senna.
Beat him first just staying enuf ahead to make sure he gets the same beautiful scenery of Lowell's butt the whole time. Once that's in the bag, then afterwards Lowell can stress the system to probe it's upper limits at his leisure. Without risking anything, you get double the bragging mileage out of it.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
xyster said:
Heck with Randy's self-serving watt-hour limitation -- I say blow his time-to-top "record" out of the Hawaiian water. An average 25mph should be possible with Lowell's 5304/20" and a 3000-4000 watt-hour ~60 lb Lipoly pack.
Click to expand...

No point in pulling an Ayrton Senna.
Beat him first just staying enuf ahead to make sure he gets the same beautiful scenery of Lowell's butt the whole time.
Click to expand...

I take it as a given Randy wouldn't show -- or if he did, manufacture some excuse for not doing the ride as agreed.
Educate Plebeius Xyster: who's Ayrton Senna?
 
xyster said:
Heck with Randy's self-serving watt-hour limitation -- I say blow his time-to-top "record" out of the Hawaiian water. An average 25mph should be possible with Lowell's 5304/20" and a 3000-4000 watt-hour ~60 lb Lipoly pack.
Click to expand...

1.3Kw for 1.5hrs?

:?:
 
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