Golden Motor Magic Pie - first taste

I tested the no load speed of the motor before opening the cover and thought it sounded slower than I expected, but I thought maybe it was just because it sounded different to my old motor. I then opened the covers to have a look but that's all I did - I didnt touch any of the components, undo the bolts holding down the controller together or remove any of the glue etc. As I said in previous posts I particularly didn't mess with anything so I could test the system as supplied by you.

After putting the covers back on I bolted it onto the bike and went for the test ride - that's when I measured with GPS and found it to be slow.
 
Hyena said:
As I said in previous posts I particularly didn't mess with anything so I could test the system as supplied by you.

After putting the covers back on I bolted it onto the bike and went for the test ride - that's when I measured with GPS and found it to be slow.


Many thanks for your well documented review, Hyena! It was helpful-but then again--it wasn't ..too bad you (understandably) reversed the battery polarity on set-up :oops:
 
information only: electricians typically use colored tape to denote when a termination is different than the actual wire color.
Honestly though ..there is a 50% chance that I would have made the same mistake :oops:

Regardless, you got the first slice :p
 
Stevil_Knevil said:
Many thanks for your well documented review, Hyena! It was helpful-but then again--it wasn't ..too bad you (understandably) reversed the battery polarity on set-up.
I also think the reversed polarity "oops" may have caused damage invalidating the rest of testing. Maybe one of the wires inside the motor supplying current to part of the motor has also vaporized. We know there was excessive current flowing, enough to melt an external connector. But here is where Hyena did something good: He took a close-up picture of the controller before (I think) that event. So how about re-opening the motor and taking that same close-up picture so we can all play a "find the 8 differences" game? It is possible that damage occurred in a hidden area, and for that a GM tech would need to further investigate.

No, we will never let Hyena forget this epic moment of reversed polarity, almost like the overly eager guy on his wedding night.
Hyena said:
Urrrgh, I wrote a massive reply then my browser crashed
I say enough damage for one day.
 
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1411.msg6842#msg6842

Low speed problem, real life drama, real time forum updates. Exciting anyone? Oh americans are asleep!
 
GoldenMotor said:
Low speed problem, real life drama, real time forum updates. Exciting anyone? Oh americans are asleep!
Yep, but we can read in our sleep.

We can guess in our sleep too.... you looked at Hyena's pic and saw the version number on the controller board. :roll:
 
Hyena said:
Urrrgh, I wrote a massive reply then my broswer crashed :x

.


Wow thanks heaps Hynena that was a very focused response.

I'm sorry I got a little bit anxious but I was keen to learn more and was ultra tired this morning.

I think it wise to await others opinions as well to see if your hub was a little off, I do still think this approach with the wide diameter is newish and probably needs some tweaking as those speed results do not match everyones expectations. And I do agree about testing it the way it is. To be honest I dont power my hub over 48v because I dont want to break the law in any major fashion. My bike with the big SLA's attracts enough attention to itself without going the speed of cars in town.

Ahh opposite polarity seems to be a chinese love. The older I get the more colour code and standards gets mixed up.

Again thank you so much Hyena.
 
Mwhahahaha. Okays it was a mistake. The last thing GM needed after the big intro. Or was the opposite polarity thing GM getting another wrecked wheel returned.

Like wow red = negative and black = positive they are going to get a few hubs back at this rate. We might have a few pies on ebay yet.
 
Yao Yuan (AKA GoldenMotor) said:
Issue: Slow Speed on Magic Pie
Low speed problem, real life drama, real time forum updates. Exciting anyone?
Now impatient for review #2.

Better than what's on TV. I can't wait to see:
- If the cables are the right color this time, and if Hyena will resist the urge to follow cable color over labels.
- If the "cool electrical engine / jet sounding whistle" sound will be traded for that of a "Jetson spacecar".

Thanks to all involved in this new entertainment industry.
 
sorry, don't matter what color the wires are.
the fault rests squarely with the GM engineers.

da Pie is clearly designed to be a Bionx fighter, to grab some market share from Bionx that seems to have inherited it entirely to itself by default.
that market is the noob/first time buyer or simply anyone non-tech inclined that wants a no-brain DIY quickie add-on for their bike with minimum of headache.

while it's impossible to make anything totally fool-proof cuz there's always someone that'll be up to the challenge, a fail-safe, fool-proof power connection is so basic it should have been designed in as a matter of course, but especially when you consider the the type of audience it's aimed at.
if it were me, even if the wire colors were correct, i would've tried plugging it in backwards anyways just to see if it was possible & what kind of outcome to expect as a test of the design engineer's salt.
it's all about:

Defensive Engineering

When I was a little girl, I got a pocket multimeter for xmas. It was nothing special, just a 3 digit autoranging DVM from Radio Shack. I used it for everything. And as it would happen, eventually, the button cells that powered it wore out.

So I got some new cells, and replaced them. Unfortunately for me, button cells have a different polarity than larger cells, and I ended up installing them backwards (recall that I was about 8 at the time). The meter quickly drained the batteries and self-destructed.

Now, if I had been an adult at the time, I would have been annoyed, and gone and got a new meter. Instead, I was an 8-year-old in a lower-middle-class family which could not afford (or simply did not care to) replace it. So naturally, it was a traumatic experience.

Now, if the designer of that multimeter had been willing to use a single MOSFET for reverse-protection, none of this would have happened.

:arrow: The moral of the story is that, no matter what you design, no matter who you think your target audience is, every time you leave out a protection circuit, you traumatize an 8-year-old.

So how do you prevent this from happening? The answer is defensive engineering. Think of how someone could mess up, and plan for it. Expect power to be delivered backwards. Expect the regulation of your external wall wart to fail. Expect someone to plug a phone line or an ethernet drop, or both, into any RJ11 or RJ45. Expect your 110V power supply to end up in europe and plugged into 220V. Expect ESD events on your serial lines. Expect ground loops. Expect your ports to have miswired connectors attached which short your output pins together.

And remember these simple rules:

1. Absorb any failed conditions and keep working.
2. If you can't keep working, then ignore the failed condition.
3. If you can't ignore it, fail non-destructively.
4. If you can't fail non-destructively, absorb the damage in sacrificial components.
 
your controller power lead must have been reversed somewhere in the cable.

from the picture you took of the controller, the black wire is ground coming off the base of the shunt and the red wire on the controller goes right to the drain on the first highside FET, and the red pigtail that carries the controller current around to the input is soldered there with it.

it is the same layout on the other controller, likely the same board inside there. so the colors are correct on the controller end.

so i do not know how they were able to, or why they would want to reverse the color somewhere between the controller and your taped on labels at the end. something is not right here. maybe that happened in the plug in the middle of the cable.

i doubt if there is protection from reverse polarity too, that had to hurt. caps, electronics, all should have been affected.
 
Hyena said:
dogman said:
20 mph performance is no suprise. For many it will be perfect, especially the internal controller simplifying the wiring
Indeed. It'd be great for europe where they have such restrictions but GM needs to make this feature optional. Better still, have a switch for it so you can elect to limit your speed for legality or economy purposes. As I posted earlier I think GM has alot more plans for this motor and its features.
Many places here in the US are also restricted to 20MPH (or less, in some cases).

Hyena said:
I would have thought so, but where are the hall wires going on the controller ? I don't know much about sensorless controllers, if they normally have hall wiring that goes elsewhere in the circuit rather than to actual halls.
I can't see clearly enough in the photos, but I suspect the halls are in that wiring loom that's tied to the phase coils, or are the little black bits sticking out of it about 2 magnets apart from each other on the PCB-back side of the motor.

317537 said:
Whats this doovalaky for? It seems to be more than a wire junction housing.
I had to look THREE TIMES at that picture to see that the arrow you used wasn't pointing at the PEDAL. :lol:
 
also there can not be 56 stator poles. it has to be a multiple of 3. so it is either 54 or 57. someone should count the magnets too. they have to be an even number and should be 5 less than the stator poles i suspect.

yao, you should see if the polarity is correct on the controller wires too so he doesn't blow up the controller before testing it like this time.
 
Well, hasn't this turned into an unexpected drama!
I did NOT blow up the controller, and it does infact seem to have polarity reversal protection. I've just been shipped the low speed motor (though with the flat axles which are supposed to be for the high speed motor. curious)

I just got a personal email from Yao @ GM explaining the whole situation and really I can't be angry about what has happened. Basically through a series of mix ups involving a few different people I've ended up with the low speed motor instead of the high speed one. Yao has been very helpful in sorting it all out and for that I thank him. This is certainly not the GM of olde! As was said previously in the other GM thread we're fortunate to have someone high up in the company taking the time to deal with us.

No biggy, what I've just reviewed is the street legal low speed offering. Take note Europeans! :p
Never fear, the high speed motor is on the way to me and I'll get working on the review the day I get it :)
 
Dear Endless Spherators,
A video of the High-Speed RPM is being made as we speak, however I got to find my connecting cables before uploading it. I can't access YouTube here in China, will one kind soul help me with that? And please tell me your video format requirements.
 
Video is up

However I cant see it anyway, tell me if it's working.

The first pie is the one that Hyena was supposed to receive
2nd pie is the one he received by mistake.

[youtube]-5QCCj9uBag[/youtube]
 
Thanks Yao, the video is working.
The proof is in the pudding! ...errr, pie :lol:

Just to clarify, that was RPM you were measuring and not unloaded speed ?
You said to me that the motor was doing 46km/hr with a 78kg rider, so I assume the unloaded freewheeling speed is >50km/hr ?

I'm happy with that speed on 48v and I think that's plenty for noobs or those that don't want motorbike like power and speeds.
 
I'm not sure, you see the problem is that we didn't label which pies were fast, and slow. But i asked them to test and find out which was fast. I don't know why but i don't think cateye was very accurate. I would need some other form of testing material. Anyway you can clearly see the difference. Believe it or not, 30 to 46 is a 50% increase.
 
Did you only make 2 different variants of magic pies ? If you did, and you've tested the fast one accurately at 46km/hr on the road (ie not freewheeling like in that video) then thats definitely faster than the one I have. Have you got one of your older 48v 1000w motors laying around to compare with ? They do about 50km/hr on the road (verified by a number of members here) on 48v so what ever you measure with your cat eye for the magic pie should be close to that. It looks like your cateye thingo is quite inaccurate. If thats 460 RPM that's good but if its speed its bad. Unless it's in mph. urrrgh the confusion!

I thought the slow ones were supposed to have round axles anyway ? You need to get this speed thing sorted before you ship any out otherwise you'll end up with alot of angry customers who won't be posting favourable comments about the product or the company.
 
That vid looks awesome. Truly.

I cant wait to see and hear more.

Thank you.
 
I honestly feel this hub (no intednal controller) is going to really shine at higher than rated voltages. It seems to be the law of things. Looking at that diameter just gives me the feeling The gearless torque you will get at 84v is going to be a winner for GM overvolters here at ES. Most here have either modded their fets or bought a decent controller that can handle 100v peak I dont see how replacing the internal controller with some phase wires from an external controller is going to break someones back.

To GM.

We havent yet determined if these use hall sensors or not?

Thank you in advanced.
 
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