heinzmann brompton help needed

[nathan_jones]

just have to catch last train i will post fully tommorow but in the mean time.

please cheack the link. i have a problem with my e bike

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=8490840#post8490840

thanks

 

[dogman dan]

Couldn't see the pix over there, but I suspect you have an issue with some connector or other, like the other guy. You should be able to pick up a multimeter at a car parts or hardware store for ten bucks. Even cheaper at harbor freight. Just a analog one will be fine. Finding out where the power stops can help.

Did you ride it far enough to get hot? the heinzmann 24v should have a temp sensor, that shuts off controllers when they get hot. could be that, or the wires to it. If the sensor dies, the bike wouldn't run, but would run if the wires to the sensor were connected to each other.

 

[nathan_jones]

hello there everyone,

I'm new to this forum, howevere i really happy i have found it now. The level of technicial knowledge is refreshing!

basically I'm trying to make for me the perfect bike a brompton folding bike with a heinzmann hub.

basically I can not get it to start. I have attached a full set of photos to try and explain. the green light comes on but when i pull back the throttle no help from the motor. what am i doing/done wrong?

 

[nathan_jones]

extra photos, this shouls help to further explain.

please ask if you have ANY questions.

 

[nathan_jones]

To try and help answer my question here are a few extra photos. it would be really good to know I've got the wire in the right place on the side of the housing there is a notch this is the best reference. let me know if this doesnt make sense

 

[dogman dan]

my bike is an EV global, and even then, I'm running it on a different controller. The plug in your hand in the last pic leads to the controller I presume?
If so, then the smaller wires are connected right to bypass the temperature sensor, if that is the problem. The red wire that is disconnected could be the problem. I would try soldering that back into the connector. It's possible the flaky connection is all that is wrong.

But lets back up a bit, and see if the motor runs at all. It's a brushed motor, so if you simply take the largish red wire from the hub, and connect it to a positive terminal on a 12v battery, and then the other largish wire to the negative, the motor should turn. If not, you have issues inside the hub. If it does, then there is a number of things that could be the problem, starting with any fuses that may be blown, flaky connectors , key switch doesn't work, throttle broken, and finally the controller is just plain fried. A cheap voltmeter will help with seeing if there is power on the both sides of connectors.

The good news is brushed hub stuff is dirt cheap. Places like ebay, monsterscooterparts, electricscooterparts, etc, all sell brushed hub controllers and throttles very cheap. So if you must, just buy a new controller and throttle. Look for a brushed hub controller, about 20 amps. or by wattage, 300-500 watts. On my heinzmann I am using a Wilderness energy controller that is 35 amp, and I have problems with overheating.

 

[nathan_jones]

hello dogman,

yes the plugs go to the controller.

"If so, then the smaller wires are connected right to bypass the temperature sensor" i dont know withou seeing a wiring diagram for sure but what you say does seam the logical choice.

and theres some good news and some bad news, good be cause i connected the motor as recommended and it jumps into action Thanks! that is just the sort of diagnotic tips i need/would like to learn .. however the bad news is i will have to find the problem else where. :lol:

could you show me some picture of the controller or attach the link. as i thought that the heizmann cotroller was the only one i could use due to cabels etc

ps i saw the ev global not a bad looking bike and the hightek is nice pretty minimal to

anyway its been a long day i need a beer, it for meditional use...promise

 

[dogman dan]

I know the feeling. These ebikes are great, but it can be pretty frustrating in the beginning. Your next step will need a multimeter. a very cheap votlmeter will help with sorting out polarity of things and seeing if there is current at all.

Here is how to test the temperature sensor in the motor. The sensor is a switch that is on when it is cool, and off when it gets hot. If it is working you will see voltage going through it. So you put a battery on one wire, then the voltmeter on the other wire, and the other end of the voltmeter back to the battery. If you see voltage, the temp switch is ok.

Unfortunately I never figured out how to put a link into this forum. But basicly ebay has the cheapest options. If you search for scooter controller,, there is a good looking one from a vendor called morethanhundreds. I bought a charger from him, or her, and got it very quick. What you are looking for is a brushed controller, 24v volt , 500 watt. Over 500 watts may make the motor run hotter, and under 500 might be slow. But ANY brushed hub controller 24v will work

Searching for scooter throttle, a vendor called tnc scooters has a 24v throttle with led lights. The led's will help you know it's powered up, and when to stop riding.

What I am using is a Wilderness Energy bike kit, brushed controller and throtte. It's a bit overpowered for the motor, so I have to watch out or I'll overheat the motor. It's actually a 36v controller, but it works at 24v too.

Other places to get brushed controllers are scooter part vendors like monsterscooterparts and electricscooterparts.

Hopefully you will find a loose connection somewhere and fix it. I am not expert enough to know how to diagnose a throttle, and all I know about controllers is if they stink, the magic smoke must have leaked out. But at least your problems should be under $100 to fix. The motor runs and that is the really important thing. At 24v it is possible to just put a heavy duty on off switch on the handlbars and let er rip. At higher voltage, the switch just melts if you try that. The switch works, but it is hard on batteries and controllers, so don't resort to that for more that a short time, and be carefull not to melt down the motor. If it feels pretty hot where the wires come out, stop. I melted a motor in one ride, by running it full throttle nonstop too long.

 

[nathan_jones]

testing the temperature senor: response so it shouldnt matter which slot the small black wires are in. Thanks for the advice and explanation, it seems very logical.. once i understood :lol:

also thanks for clearing up, strapping the batterey directly to the motor.Its what i was thinking but forgot to ask, (and wont be resorting to this yet, but would be intrested to see others who have) i also found a vvery methodical explaination of controllers here http://www.4qdtec.com/pwm-01.html

i plan to check every connnection over the next few days to dianose the problem, ill let you know how it goes.

does anyone know if the heizmann controller is betteryfor any reason?

ps after the magic smoke comes out.. its followed by a genie :lol:

 

[nathan_jones]

pss how whould i check the controller is working?

 

[dogman dan]

Only way I know is if the motor turns, or voltage shows on the output wires. There are guys here that can fix controllers, but I sure am not one of em. To me this stuff is black boxes with magic inside. I only know when the genie got out when he leaves a stink. You could open up the controller and look for burnt looking stuff. Since brushed controllers are so cheap, buying one and having it as a spare if you get the other one working wouldn't be so bad.

 

[nathan_jones]

hello there all. 109 views yet only the helpful dogmann has given advice... Shame on you! anyway after checking the every connection. again and again and.. again. i opened up the controller. i found that one of the components has burnt out. I could not read the part number as it was melted :lol:

I spoke to a tech guy and said that "normally the FETS go on these controllers" i pretended like i understood what he said then put the put the phone down and did some research . a fet being a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-effe ... istor#Uses intresting reading!! (Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor how i suspect this information is rather elementary for all you brain box's )

Can i just confirm this component is a FET??

here is the product code of the adjacent component Sup75n06 and T62caa. Could anyone explain what this code breaks into? eg Sup75n06 the n standing for n-channel

In the wiki article referring to the FET it states in the uses section...

"This process technology uses an arrangement where the (usually "enhancement-mode") p-channel MOSFET and n-channel MOSFET are connected in series such that when one is on, the other is off."

thus the one i need to replace would be the oppersite i suspect the positive however im not sure . i know you can test transistors with a multimeter but i dont have one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor

for clarity the burnt out component (always on the left side of the photo) goes to the motor.

what i plan to do is take the cb to maplins in the uk the equivalent of radioshack to our american friends.

and buy this

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22997

and GIT ER DUN! :lol: is it what you recommend or will it blow up??

if you look here thay have other parts

http://www.maplin.co.uk/search.aspx?MenuNo=12481&MenuName=Transistors&FromMenu=y&doy=14m3

does this help better explain the problem

 

[dogman dan]

Looks like a fet in the picture. The other thing that tends to blow is capacitors, that look like a little can.
Running the thing at too high a voltage, and stalling the motor, where the motor can't turn, but you keep full throttle on, is the usual cause of smoking controllers. Also shorting the motor wires if the motor axle spins.

Maybe start a new thead in the tec section, where the geniuses hang out.

 

[nathan_jones]

dogmann thanks for the help asusual

"Running the thing at too high a voltage, and stalling the motor, where the motor can't turn, but you keep full throttle on, is the usual cause of smoking controllers." this make sense as the motor is drawing high power, correct me if im wrong.

also.

"Also shorting the motor wires if the motor axle spins." just to confirm creating a loop from the controller out to in overloading the thing... wow im starting to understand for around 2 minutes... ohh welll might as welll make the most of it!!! :lol:

thanks,

ill also start a thread over there.

 

[gmouchawar]

The FET number indicate it is rated at 60V and can carry 75A. If you are replacing it, i recommed IR4110.

 

[nathan_jones]

thanks for the response,

how did you decode this magic language

Sup75n06

so 75 is amps is the 60 from the 06?

and dose the n stand for n type?

As i would like to know how to crack these codes

IR4110

IRF740

thanks

 

[gmouchawar]

Yes. I work with power electronics. The first rating is usually the current and the second V divided by 10.
You will see from the attached spec that IRF4110 is a superior NFET if you are going to the trouble of replacing them.

 

[nathan_jones]

i tried replacing the controller fets but no luck so i relucantly bought a e-crazymann controller. and have been testing the bike.

wow is all i can say. It didnt stop at ANY HILL... and i live in wales so there are a few big hill here, the latest test journey had a total climb of arround 175m.

Like many others report above a certain speed the motor cannot contribute, however i beileve this works well as an assist, as my pedeling speed is 15mph+ (results greatly vary depending upon porrige (ya'll call that oatmeal in the states) intake ) and most other uk leagl hub motors would not be able to contribute.

I will post some photos shortly.

i have kept the install as minimal as possiable and like the cables run inside the seat tube upto the battiers in the bag.

does anyone out there have a similar set up? i have a 16" rear and a heinzmann 20" front looks rather dynamic IMO.

 

[dnmun]

i just got here, not sure what you have done, but the problem is in that plug.

your main positive power cable is disconnected. the controller gets power through the little wire but the main current path through the FETs is disconnected.

but first get a voltmeter at harbor freight for $5 or wherever you can find the cheapest, and then solder up the connections on the red and black sides to make sure they are solid.

in fact you should make the entire current path solid and remove all the clip contacts. use solid or stranded wire from battery through controller to the motor, and put the fuse on the battery side of the controller.

do all that first, then we can diagnose any problems, but it should run then. do you know if this is pedelec?