Help: magic pie and lyen 12 fets not working

[luvxu]

Hi all,

I have a magic pie 2 connected to the lyen 12 fets controller according to this recommendation but it is not working.

Here is the connection:
Controller: Motor:
HALL:
Yellow Green
Green Yellow
Blue Blue

PHASE:
Yellow Yellow
Green Green
Blue Blue"

As I turned the throttle, I could hear some noise come out of the motor, it shook a bit but it wouldn't turn. The cycle analyst was up and showed the correct voltage on the battery which is 50V.

Would you have some idea that could help me? I am including some pictures for your reference.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/47307656/Photos/TrekMagicPie/IMG_20120904_155452.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/47307656/Photos/TrekMagicPie/IMG_20120904_155522.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/47307656/Photos/TrekMagicPie/IMG_20120904_155537.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/47307656/Photos/TrekMagicPie/IMG_20120904_155557.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/47307656/Photos/TrekMagicPie/IMG_20120904_155622.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/47307656/Photos/TrekMagicPie/IMG_20120904_155645.jpg

Thank you for your help,

 

[luvxu]

I tried to switch the yellow and green phase wires as suggested by one of the configurations in Lyen website but it still didn't work.

I broke out the hall sensor wires and tested them with a voltmeter while slowly turning the wheel by hand. The voltage went from 0v to 4.19v for each of the leads so I think the hall sensors are working fine.

I then disconnected the hall sensors completely and tried to run it in sensorless mode. Everytime I turned the throttle, the wheel seems to move backward a little bit (a few centimeters) and then stop.

Any suggestion would be very much appreciated.

 

[dnmun]

you have never used the controller before? it has not been tested on another motor?

 

[luvxu]

right, both the controller and motor are brand new and never been tried before. I wish to hear from other users who have the same motor and controller to see how they can get it working.

 

[dnmun]

you used the known wiring combination? or was that a guess initially? if it doesn't run with good hall sensors and the right wiring combination...

 

[luvxu]

yes, Lyen sent me this test run video to show that the controller works: http://youtu.be/0b7X-loEX78

he also sent two configurations for magic pie connections of which I have already tried without success:

"Lyen Controller to Golden Motor MagicPie motor wire color lining (5/19/2011):

Controller: Motor:
HALL:
Yellow Green
Green Yellow
Blue Blue

PHASE:
Yellow Green
Green Yellow
Blue Blue

_______________________

Lyen Controller to Golden Motor MagicPie III motor wire color lining (7/17/2012):

Controller: Motor:
HALL:
Yellow Green
Green Yellow
Blue Blue

PHASE:
Yellow Yellow
Green Green
Blue Blue
"

 

[parajared]

Sounds like a hall problem. I hate halls, total pain in the rear. The next step is to mess with the phase/hall combos. The way you do this is you get a device that measures amperage, wal-mart sells multi-meters for $15 and find the RFF (runs fine forward) amperage for each phase wire combo.

Those three fat wires coming out of your hub are your phase wires the 5 little tiny wires are your hall wires. Leave the red and black hall wires where they are, and with a paper clip push the little tab on the other hall wires to free them from the white plastic enclosure. Then start swapping the order they are in, giving tiny squirts of throttle until you find RFF (runs fine forward). The logic I use for this is to just think about the first color in the row. Example (blue yellow green)= nothing (blue green yellow)= nothing ..... ok this means the blue wire isn't the first wire in the sequence.

Once you have RFF, lift the wheel off the ground and give it throttle and attach your meter to see how many amps it is drawing at full throttle. You now have RFF amp draw for that configuration of phase wires (the three fat wires coming out of the hub). Now you have to do that same process for every gosh darn combination of phase wires until you have a little chart showing all your RFF amp draw figures. The combination of phase wires that draws the least amperage is the correct one.

If you just can't get RFF in any combo you try, it's one of three things:
1) you blew a hall sensor, or a sensor wire is shorting or broken (most likely). Lyen sells sensors for $5. Repairing involves prying out the blown one and wadding a new one, then going through the whole phase sequencing mess again.
2) you blew a phase wire (less likely). Fixing is easy, you just remove the top of your hub. They usually "pop" at the solder joint where the wire meets the windings, just solder them back on.
3) something is wrong with your controller (possible). Lyen is a pretty good guy, he offers diagnosis and repair services at a pretty reasonable price.

Hope this helps,
Jared

 

[luvxu]

Hi Jared,

Thank you for your suggestion. I already have the cycle analyst that show Watt and amperage, could you just use it to find the phase combination with least amp draw?

 

[parajared]

Cycle analyst is perfect.

 

[dnmun]

i thought the pie was a known combination. one of the aussie guys runs a lyen on a pie i thought.

 

[luvxu]

hi dnmun
yes that was what I thought too. From reading the forum, I thought there are many people who already done MP2 and Lyen controller. But so far I have yet to see a post about the wiring.

 

[dnmun]

ask hyena who the guy is with the pie. i thought he used a lyens, but it seems like the infineon wiring combination would be the same.

 

[neptronix]

Should work like this:

Hall sensors: match all colors.
Phase wires: match all colors, OR swap yellow and blue.

Phase degree: set to 'compatible' with the programming cable, if it is not set that way already.

That's my best guess for your lyen controller.

 

[luvxu]

Thanks neptronix. I'll try that combination at home tonight. BTW I took one of your advices and bought the EV bag for the bike, it work out well

 

[luvxu]

Finally some progress: I connected the wires as recommended by neptronix and the wheel spin as expected (Hall sensors: match all colors. Phase wires: match all colors).

Now the new problem I found is that there seem to be no torque at all. I can stop the wheel easily with my hand. I also noticed that after a few minutes of trying to spin the wheel freely, the phase wires are really really hot to the touch. Something must be wrong, right?

 

[docnjoj]

Did you use your CA to check the amp draw? Hot wires show very high amps.
otherDoc
edit Always do this with the wheel off the ground and beware of the pedals if it goes backwards.

 

[luvxu]

Here are the pictures of the CA reading for
1. no throttle
2. little throttle
3. full throttle
This is with the wheel off the ground and freely spinning.

No throttle: why is there current draw (.514Ah) when there is no throttle?

Little throttle:

Full throttle:

The phase wires are very HOT and the torque is very weak...

 

[luvxu]

Ok, success finally!

I have been switching around with different permutation of the hall and phase wires. The final combination that works is the following just in case someone else might need it.

Hall connection: color match completely from Lyen controller to the magic pie.
Phase connection:
Controller Yellow ==> Motor Blue
Controller Green ==> Motor Yellow
Controller Blue ==> Motor Green

Thank you all for all your help. It is running strong now. I can't keep up with the pedaling anymore

 

[willo]

It's completely related to your phase/hall ordering. Keep working on it. I had the same problem. I'd tell you my order, but I replaced all the wires on mine...

I almost forgot - to get mine worked out, I ended up swapping a couple of the phase wires around once I got the halls in the correct order.

That is on an older magic pie that I refitted and used a lyen 12 fet modder on.

 

[betarambo]

I am a bit late to the party as I have been out riding now that the project is done instead of reading forums!

The Lyen combinations worked for me on MP2 to 12 fet. The MP3 ones from Lyen also worked for me when I ran a MP3 (the combination he lists is from me).

I can't help but comment on your CA readings. You are looking for Amps (A) but your pictures are amp-hours (Ah). You need to switch to a different screen to see amps directly.

 

[mclulz]

Ok, success finally!

I have been switching around with different permutation of the hall and phase wires. The final combination that works is the following just in case someone else might need it.

Hall connection: color match completely from Lyen controller to the magic pie.
Phase connection:
Controller Yellow ==> Motor Blue
Controller Green ==> Motor Yellow
Controller Blue ==> Motor Green

Thank you all for all your help. It is running strong now. I can't keep up with the pedaling anymore

Hi, will this work for magic pie 3 and a em3ev.com 12fet 40amp infineon controller as well? Are the lyen and the em3ev controller the same in terms of color coding the wires?

 

[neptronix]

em3ev 12FET controllers have a different color scheme, i believe. The advice i gave above was for an em3ev controller.

My guess for the magic pie 3 wiring is that it is the same as on the magic pie 2. All motors i have used on the em3ev controllers ( MAC, 9C, magic pie, MXUS geared, etc ) have had the colors match the phase and hall perfectly, the only exception was the Crystalyte HS3548 i got from ebikes.ca.