Help me choose a conversion kit

[Swe]

Hello,

I Have a bike like this, 28" wheels:

I would like to add a motor to it, just for fun riding but if it works great maybe even use it instead of the car to my job. I have never tested an eBike but I have 20km to the work and the last time I used the bike it took me one hour and I also needed a shower after, and with the car it takes 25-30 min. The 250W-motors seems to go only 25km/h so that seems to little gain for me, thats why I think I need a 36V 500W motor because they seem to have a top speed around 40km/h. I would like to get quick to work without getting warm (but I will use the pedals), and maybe get more exercise on the way home instead but not always. Near my home there is some short but steep roads, but on other places its more flat.

Since its only legal with 250W and 25km/h in Sweden it would be good if the 500W motor wasnt that large, so that you almost didnt see it was an eBike from distance. But that seems to be hard with the 500W, am I right? But if all 500W-motors are big then there is nothing to to about it. Maybe a rear wheel motor is more hided, but my weight is 95kg and I also have my 2-year son on the back sometimes (not in 40km/h) so maybe a front motor is better for the stability?

I found this EVBike on the link below, only $220 and ships from Europe i think (a large motor, but if it was impossible to find smaller one). But there is no one in stock. Can you get something similair somewhere else? And then use a LiFePO4 battery, perhaps 36V 15Ah.

http://www.ev-power.eu/EVBike-Kits-1-1/E-bike-conversion-kit-EVBike-36V-500W-Front-28.html


Any ideas what would fit for me?

On some videos the wheel spins really good without power, is this the same for all motors nowdays or how can I know? Would be good if you could use it without the power sometimes instead of changing the wheel.

 

[torker]

Welcome to the site. The motor you linked to is a large ,heavy direct drive motor. They will take the most abuse and make more power than a geared motor. Also they have more friction when ridden with no power. It sounds like you need a geared motor. Geared motors have a freewheel inside so there is almost no drag when pedaling without power. Also they are usually smaller and lighter than a direct drive.
Not knowing how steep hills you planning to ride it is hard to know what to recommend. As long as you are willing to pedal to help sounds like any motor will make it since you have ridden up these hills already.

Use the search feature on the site and you will find all kinds of threads to read. Since you have large 28 in. wheels you will need a slower wind motor. Slower electrically. As you add more voltage you increase speed. Welcome again and be prepared to read alot and get info overload :lol: There is so many choices . Maybe someone near you can help where to order your kit.

 

[motomech]

You have some reading to do because most of your assumptions are incorrect.
The motor is not the main factor in determining the amount of power the system generates, that is the function of the controller and battery and to a lesser degree, the efficiency of the motor.
What the motor does do is set the upper limits of how much power can be applied without over heating by virtrue of it's type and size(larger mass=ability to shed more heat).
I am going to recommend a geared mini-motor system that is inexpensive, easy to install and stealthy.
The picture of your bike is not very good, but I will assume the the forks are made of steel and reasonably strong, so this recommendation is for a frt. motor to ease the installation.
It starts with a very tiny "Cute" Q100H motor;

http://www.bmsbattery.com/front-driving/630-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

With the large wheel, you need to use the 201 low speed motor. This will limit the top speed a bit, but will allow for reasonably good climbing.

For a battery, 48 Volts to regain some of the speed lost to the slow rpm motor, sine-wave for smoothness, intergreated for ease of installation and the nice feature packed SLCD-3 display.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/battery-pack/681-bottle-ebike-battery.html
If you are interested in this type of system, search here or Pedalacs UK with keywords Cute, Q100H, SLCD-3 display, intergrated bottle battery, etc.
You can also search the posts of D8veh at either forum.

 

[wesnewell]

This will give you an idea of what's available.
http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/28-inch-electric-hub-motor-kit/c-70/
A front motor will stand out more, not to mention what could happen if it breaks the forks and comes off while you're riding it. I would highly recommend a rear motor. Easier to conceal and a lot safer.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Welcome to the forum. Looks like a good bike. Is the front fork made of steel? If so, then a front motor is an option, but I would recommend a rear motor if you want to carry a child on the rear. Generally you want the drive wheel to be the wheel under the weight on any vehicle. It'll get better traction that way.
If your front fork is alloy (test with a magnet if you don't know for sure) then I'd steer clear of a front motor. while an aluminum fork can handle some low powered motors, a 500 watt motor can exceed it's strength, especialy in high load, high torque conditions, like hauling a kid.

The motor you linked would be a great motor. I have 3 like it from other vendors. Great torque and speed, can be modified for some amazing performance, is extremely quiet, and with only 1 moving part, very reliable.
it's also the size of a medium sized frying pan, and about as inconspicuous as, well, riding with a frying pan shoved in your spokes. It won't go unnoticed.

That motor is what is known as a Direct Drive Hub. They are large by nature. What you need is Geared hub. They are much smaller and lighter. Most of the 250 watt motors are geared hubs. A 500 watt geared hub will be a little bigger, but not frying pan huge. They hide well behind a disk brake and rear gear set, and could be mistaken for a 250w legal motor unless someone has reason to really examine it. Here's an example of a 500w MAC motor hiding in plain sight:

http://www.electricbike.com/bmc-hub-motor-review/


36volts is fine. However, since you will be hauling a kid, ~48 volts will be better. With the right motor choice it will give you the same speed (or more if you want) but it will also give you more power. A 36v 15ah or 48v 10ah battery should get you 20km at 40kph at the minimum. often much further. So plenty of power to haul your kid around.

28" wheels are the hybrid tire designation for 700c size rims. It just means you're running a wider, more versatile tire. It Also the same size rim used for 29ers. Few vendors will list "28 inch" wheel size since it's really just a marketing ploy, not an actual size. But they will list 700c. Helpfull to know when ordering a motor kit, but also when you're buying tires. There are far more choices listed as 700c, and a 700x38 is the same size as a 28"x1.5" There are also more sizes listed as 29" than 28". Usualy they're just fatter, knobbier tires.

I would recommend a kit like this:
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=45&product_id=184
Paul is a trusted vendor by many here.

 

[Swe]

Thank you all for the answers. The "magnet test" says that my front fork is steel and the rest of the bike is aluminium. I understand that a rear motor will be more stealth but I am worried it will be difficult. The bike is 24-geared so I guess I have 8 gears on the back which seems to make problems have I read...

But I like the idea of a small 250W motor on the front that you can get some extra power from.

You have some reading to do because most of your assumptions are incorrect.
The motor is not the main factor in determining the amount of power the system generates, that is the function of the controller and battery and to a lesser degree, the efficiency of the motor.
What the motor does do is set the upper limits of how much power can be applied without over heating by virtrue of it's type and size(larger mass=ability to shed more heat).
I am going to recommend a geared mini-motor system that is inexpensive, easy to install and stealthy.
The picture of your bike is not very good, but I will assume the the forks are made of steel and reasonably strong, so this recommendation is for a frt. motor to ease the installation.
It starts with a very tiny "Cute" Q100H motor;

http://www.bmsbattery.com/front-driving/630-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

With the large wheel, you need to use the 201 low speed motor. This will limit the top speed a bit, but will allow for reasonably good climbing.

For a battery, 48 Volts to regain some of the speed lost to the slow rpm motor, sine-wave for smoothness, intergreated for ease of installation and the nice feature packed SLCD-3 display.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/battery-pack/681-bottle-ebike-battery.html
If you are interested in this type of system, search here or Pedalacs UK with keywords Cute, Q100H, SLCD-3 display, intergrated bottle battery, etc.
You can also search the posts of D8veh at either forum.

If I take the Q100H, and the batterypack I have all the other stuff? (maybe tourqe arms to bu safe). Because all the cables, LCD and more is included in the batterypack? But what about the wheel?? Your link was only the motor. I find one with both wheel and motor, but that wheel (or motor cover) looks huge! Is not the Q100H only 110mm in diameter like the Q100? 110mm sounds "stealthy", but the picture of that wheel is not, see link.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/632-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html


Not sure what to believe, here is a Q100 (not Q100H) in a kit that looks small on the wheel:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/576-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

But here is another without kit that looks really big:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/588-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

 

[motomech]

Not all the pictures match
The Q100H is the same size as the other Q100's. The Q100H is somewhat new. As you can see, BMS Battery claims 30 % more torque(climbing ability), but D8veh and others have tested it and the general concensus is that 10% might be more accurate. All of us agree, that it should take more Amps than the standard SO6S (15Amp) controller provides. The 09 intergrated battery\controller is brand new and no one has used it yet, so you would be a bit of a lab rat But it would seem to solve some problems that we have been trying work through.
The original SO6S controller would not accept 48 Volts(I burned up two of them ), so those who desired the 201 motor for use in the big wheel had to use less volts, resulting in a top speed of less than 20 mph(sorry, I think Standard units). With a 48V Battery, it will be over 20 mph.
Also, the original intergrated bottle battery, the stainless one that looks more like water bottle, was only available in 36 Volts.
So the new 09 looks to be perfect for the Q100H, but I would suggest you contact BMS Battery and ask if they are ok together.
The only cavet with the 09 is it looks like a battery(although it is Small as far as batteries go). Perhaps it could be hidden in a bag.
The more expensive 09 battery uses better Panasonic cells and if your budget allows, it would be a worthwhile up-grade.

The reason I listed the motor only, is that for us here in the States, the shipping is much less with motor only. We buy the spokes from BMS Battery, but buy the rim here. Since you will be buying a battery as well, the shipping will be higher and so you should consider the motor\wheel ASM. You can check the shipping costs for the various combos and see. There is nothing wrong with the wheel build, but you will need to adjust the spoke tension.
The battery systems look fairly complete, but I do not see a wheel speed sensor, so add one of those. And yes, a pair of torque arms and spoke wrench would be good. One last item would be the left hand half-twist throttle. Some of us remove the frt. shifter because with a motor, it is unnecessary and mount the throttle
on the left.
The BMS Battery stuff is inexpensive, but shipping small items is expensive, so better to get extras now.
One of the really nice thing about this system is the flexibilty the SLCD-3 display offers. It has cruise control, PAS and much info about speed, time and battery. But the best is the 5 level assist that allows the rider to adjust the power from a little to full power.
Lastly, while you are reading up on this system, wait for D8veh to chime in about how the combo might work. He is the expert on ebike set-ups.

 

[Swe]

I was sold on the Q100H the more I read about it, but first I sent a mail to BMSBattery asking if the Q100H and the 48V 20A would work toghether, but no answer there :x . Then I asked d8veh in PM and he think the 48V (and perhaps also 20A) will be to much for the Q100H, and also that the motor will be to weak for my 95kg plus my kid 16kg. He instead recommended the Bafang CST 500W. I am easy to persuade and I think it will be ok hidden between the gears and the disc brake (motor is 177mm).

So now I think I will go on the Bafang CST 500W 36V rear:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/589-q11-48v1kw-front-driving-hub-motor-e-bike-conversion-kit.html
With the 36V 14.5Ah battery+convertion kit pack:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/678-bottle-ebike-battery.html

I thought the 48V 11.6Ah would be better (more Volt always better I belived) but d8veh says the 36V will be more efficient on lower and medium speeds, but still have good top speed.

I have not ordered yet, still thinking of where to get it. Everything goes for about $670 at BMSB, plus shipping $240 and maybe they will ask for more have I heard so total over $910. Not that cheap anymore... So if anyone has a similair package for better price/anotfher vendor please tell me

 

[wesnewell]

Have a look on ebay for volume sellers in your country.

 

[motomech]

Really, I have been running anywhere from 40 to 55 Volts on standard Q100's for years, have not lost a motor yet.
My daily ride right now is a Q100 CST on 11S(44Volts) @ 23 Amps., the motor never even gets warm. I monitor the Watts and keep it below 900 sustained
Sunder burned one up in Australia, turns out he was running 1300 Watts thru it while carrying a passenger;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62287&p=930554&hilit=cute+13s#p930554


chvidgov.bc.ca, Russell, zukster and others have run the Q100 @ 50V or higher while limiting Amps, without problems.
But having said that, BMS Battery does not offer a 48V controller rated less the 20 Amps and that is a problem.
Elifebike does, but I don't think they carry the Q100H, so things can get complicated(two vendors).

So in this case, perhaps the big Bafang is a simpler install.

But I just wanted to point out,that for someone willing to "mix and match"parts, the q100 on 48V is doable and fun.+

 

[arkmundi]

See my Top 10 eBike Conversion Kits & Where to Buy list. I'm doing a second build on its basis and decided on the new MAC from http://em3ev.com/store/, 10T and with the 9 fet IRFB4110 Infineon Controller, running with a 72V battery.

 

[Russell]

I love small front geared motors as assist motors. My favorite bike is similar to yours and I call it my "trekking" bike.



The motor is from E-BikeKit but it's just a MXUS. This particular motor is a high-speed "328" RPM version (~9.2RPM/V). For someone who likes to pedal and isn't too heavy (hey I'm 200 lbs/91kg) it is can be fun. Top speed with a fresh 36V battery is 24 mph(39kph) and at 48V it's 28.5 mph+ (46 kph), both with a 22A controller. It's not what I wanted when I ordered it but it has grown on me. The one I would recommend for most people is the slow-wound 201 RPM version (actually more like 6.6 RPM/V). With a 36V pack it is slow (18mph/29kph) but feed it 48V and it wakes up nicely to around 22.5+mph/36kph.

I would also recommend the slow-wound 201 RPM (~6.5 RPM/V) versions of the Bafang SWXH or SWXK5. The latter is preferable if you have disc brakes since the former is wider and needs to be laced all spoke heads out to clear calipers. This is also true of the MXUS motors.

I have a regular 201 RPM version (~6.4 RPM/V) of the Q100 motor and find it to be weaker than the somewhat larger motors above. It is stealthier and could be mistaken for a generator.

View attachment 1

These slow-wound motors are satisfying at 48V with a 15A controller. I have run the MXUS and Bafangs at 48V/22A however care must be taken at this power level. Hills can quickly overheat them especially if you have been running them hard when you get to the hills.

All of these motors get noisy when pushed hard up hills. I find the MXUS to be the quietest at a normal cruise speed. The Q100 has an ever-present whirring sound that I find a bit annoying.

The Bafang BPM is a different animal than the smaller motors and if you get stopped with it I doubt you could convince the Authorities it's a 250W motor. It is a motor however that can propel you up many hills with no pedaling, that's something the little motors can't do. I would be careful mounting one of these on the front forks. I don't use torque arms with my small front motors but I'd definitely do so with the BPM, probably even two. I have a rear "code 10" 300 RPM (8.4 RPM/V) version on an Electra Townie with a 26" wheel. On 36V/27A it feels strong and has a top speed of 23mph/37kph, on 48V/26A it's like driving a scooter, top speed 28 mph/45kph.

For batteries I really like my "high C-Rate" battery from BMSBattery. It's made with 10C cells rather than the standard 1-2C pouches. Stored in a Topeak MTX rack makes it easy to slide on and off the bike and gives you a place to carry tools, a spare tube and what-have-you. A downtube battery like is shown on the first picture above is a good choice too.

-R

 

[d8veh]

Really, I have been running anywhere from 40 to 55 Volts on standard Q100's for years, have not lost a motor yet.
My daily ride right now is a Q100 CST on 11S(44Volts) @ 23 Amps., the motor never even gets warm. I monitor the Watts and keep it below 900 sustained
Sunder burned one up in Australia, turns out he was running 1300 Watts thru it while carrying a passenger;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62287&p=930554&hilit=cute+13s#p930554


chvidgov.bc.ca, Russell, zukster and others have run the Q100 @ 50V or higher while limiting Amps, without problems.
But having said that, BMS Battery does not offer a 48V controller rated less the 20 Amps and that is a problem.
Elifebike does, but I don't think they carry the Q100H, so things can get complicated(two vendors).

So in this case, perhaps the big Bafang is a simpler install.

But I just wanted to point out,that for someone willing to "mix and match"parts, the q100 on 48V is doable and fun.+

Can you remind us how heavy you are?

 

[Racer_X]

I have not ordered yet, still thinking of where to get it. Everything goes for about $670 at BMSB, plus shipping $240 and maybe they will ask for more have I heard so total over $910. Not that cheap anymore... So if anyone has a similair package for better price/anotfher vendor please tell me

You forgot to factor in the goverment's cut. Your very nice tullverket will spank you for another 25% of the total so that will be $910 plus 1576kr which usually comes as a bill from UPS or DHL or whoever you use for shipping agent.

Are you in stockholm? Can problaby guide you to a cheaper alternative.

 

[Swe]

Yes you are right, 25% more here too... Yes live in Stockholm, I'll send you a PM .

 

[Racer_X]

Shipping batteries to sweden from china is expensive. First you pay and extra shipping fee for hazardous material, then the tullverket spanks you for another 25%.

The solution is you can get a decent Lithium Ion 36v 10ah battery from the swedish equivalent to radio shack for a reasonable price.
http://www.clasohlson.com/se/Batteri-till-elcykel/Pr311422000

For the ebikekit it all depends on what is your final choice. Geared vs. Direct Drive etc etc.

By the way the cops are not going to sweat you, as long as you are courteous to your fellow cyclist and pedal when you ride. Since off course you know we follow the EU rules and we are obligated to have PAS. BUT as of todays date they don't bother checking. Could change tomorrow though if we have a bunch of Yahooos racing through our cities with no regards to rules.

 

[Swe]

Just a little note. It is not possible to connect a speed sensor to the bottle-09 controllers, says BMSBattery on mail to me.

But maybe you can live without it and look att the phone...