How would you write ideal ebike regulations

[LockH]

Ohhh! I feel a fourth "rule" coming on... Lesee.. So far:
RULE ONE (for ANY vehicle operation in any atmosphere, aka "Space"): NEVER DO HARM.
RULE TWO: NEVER TRUST (yourself, but especially not any other creatures, etc.)
RULE THREE: NEVER EXCEED PRUDENT VEHICLE OPERATING SPEEDS. (See Rule One, above.)

Maybe four:
BE AWARE (Of other creatures and things eg your own vehicle operating indicators.)

Yes?

 

[zener]

FOUR dont pedal if u don't want or have a broken ankle.

 

[LockH]

Ummm... I can understand maybe if one HAS a broken ankle, etc but pedaling (with your foots, or hands) can CAUSE bone breakage??? Please explain?

EDIT: Having said that... I recently had a tumble down maybe 20 steps, and ended up in a hospital w/broken ribs, a broken right clavicle (shoulder bone) plus multiple brain injuries. So, is walking down some stairs "dangerous" too?

 

[zener]

If you go to a bicycle seller here in EU (or other pedelec land) and buys for 2k a pedelec but than after a month your ankle gets broken whiles you riden a horse u fallen off.
Than you can not ride your pedelec anymore becouse it have just one modus operandi (pedal forced by law) . nice to have a electric bicycle in EU ??

pedelec means = PEDal forcEd by Law ECt. ? :lol:

 

[LockH]

So... Maybe some counties in the EU are breaking Universal Travel Rule One (DO NO HARM)? Now I gotta wonder. When does "inconvenience" become "harm"?

 

[zener]

The maybe is a more sure.
I think this invention to transform a ebike to a pedelec comes from the haters and its against some of the fundamental human rights.

 

[gogo]

Polititians promise to make the world safe though legislation, in return for power granted to them. Unfortunately, we are surrounded by sheeple that believe its possible.

Bullies in law enforcement love laws that allow them to bully.

This thread reminds me of motorists who think the laws against impeding traffic are meant to keep bicyclists out of their way.
1) Bicycles are traffic.
2) Those laws are meant to address motorists who go so unnessesarily slow that they are impeding bicyclists.

What is the likelyhood that 'allowing' any given form of conveyance would cause injury to other road users? The answer to that question is the guide to whether any regulation is called for, and its form.

 

[LockH]

Well, maybe we exist on a planet full of "NIMBYs"? I haven't watched any TV much for a few decades, but now I'm looking at ads for lots of "products" being sold (promoted) by using fear and ignorance. ("Buy our monitored alarm system and maybe nobody will break into your home and rape your goldfish - for a second time!")

 

[LockH]

Perhaps one unwritten rule (of the "UTRs" (TM) might be to reduce the population of the... dumb... through education (Can't pass the test/course? No license). Worst case, one digit (finger or toe) at a time. May or may not make some "think twice" the next time, but also maybe serve as a low-cost warning to others. (I bet Master Dog Meisters puppies are salivating right now, at the prospect of tasty flavoured treats.)

 

[John in CR]

"Ideal regs" are those in place as posted speed limits, and traffic signs and signals. Nothing more is necessary at this time.

 

[cal3thousand]

"Ideal regs" are those in place as posted speed limits, and traffic signs and signals. Nothing more is necessary at this time.

See how easy this all could be?

Testing equipment for speed is well established and quite affordable (on both sides of the law). Even a pedal bike can have one for $10.

 

[LockH]

"Ideal regs" are those in place as posted speed limits, and traffic signs and signals. Nothing more is necessary at this time.

One maybe "problem" with "posted speed limits"? Who decides what speed limit exactly? And how to they allow for locals, that *know* their neighbourhood, know their neighbours (and their pets), for the day, some sunny day, early, and they might be in a hurry to get home (maybe relatively quietly/"silently") to "have a dump" etc.

Might "posted speed limits" at least fluctuate up/down, depending on light/weather conditions?

 

[Dauntless]

Dang, I didn't even know we HAD reasonable death and injury laws. How do we cite someone for dying unreasonably? Do we sentence them to have their burial delayed a few years? Keep the injured in the hospital section of the jail until they've finished their sentence?

I don't see how there could be a reasonable or unreasonable number, either there is (Or WAS) more idiots on the bikes when the numbers went up or there wasn't and they went down. The FAA says it's not here to keep you from killing YOURSELF, it's to keep you from taking others with you. In that respect it could be better to have all the idiots on motorcycles, that would reduce their ability to claim victims from what they can do in cars.

So I don't think of myself as much of a rider because I haven't exactly rode regularly, but I got a perfect score on the riding test for my license and these guys who didn't have cars and rode exclusively were failing. There's only one reason that happened.

[youtube]R21OOn-JhUM[/youtube]

I mean sure, take up the whole lane. This shows you how safe that'll make you.

[youtube]vv0sFGe1g1Y[/youtube]

 

[LockH]

"Ideal regs" are those in place as posted speed limits, and traffic signs and signals. Nothing more is necessary at this time.

Given that light (etc?) signals might be seen (by the visually NOT impaired?) Might it not be better to remove "speed limits" and "traffic signs" to INTRODUCE INDECISION into the "travel mix"? (Cause at least maybe some vehicle operators, maybe most, maybe ALL to SLOW DOWN? - They perhaps have already lost one digit, for which Master Ds puppies are eternally grateful.)

 

[danielrlee]

"Ideal regs" are those in place as posted speed limits, and traffic signs and signals. Nothing more is necessary at this time.

IMO, this is the truth of the matter.

I'm not sure how much longer I can bare to follow this thread as I can feel myself getting more annoyed with each post. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? If you require additional legislation to avoid hurting yourself on an e-bike, then maybe you shouldn't be riding it in the first place.

 

[danielrlee]

Given that light (etc?) signals might be seen (by the visually NOT impaired?) Might it not be better to remove "speed limits" and "traffic signs" to INTRODUCE INDECISION into the "travel mix"?

Really??? I'd say indecision is the LAST thing we need to throw into the mix.

How do you even manage to walk out your own front door in the morning when you worry about every possible eventuality and the risks involved?

 

[danielrlee]

Wait, I've just thought of a regulation that I think we'll all agree on. An e-bike should be capable of being propelled without motor power - those pedal less scooters masquerading as bikes are a joke and should not be regarded in the same class.

 

[LockH]

An e-bike should be capable of being propelled without motor power.

My friend (not really, but one of my EV Stars maybe) Bill Bruder will NOT be happy (kinda hope his Windwagon is still rollin).


So... You propose dirt-powered only (aka "plants" and "animals" "eaten" by human animals.)???

 

[LockH]

Maybe "food" energy could be stored (via chem batt) pedaling a generator? Might check w/Bill. See if that balloon still carries him places (Land of Oz, etc.). Or floats still works on water OK (or skates on ice). But then, it wouldn't be a "vehicle"... would it?

 

[LockH]

Ummm... While some maybe want to quibble about watt power a vehicle uses for propulsion, seen here (and translated into English language):

In ancient Egypt, sailing ships used for coastal shipping around 3000 BC - as can be seen on a frieze of the temple of Edfu well.

http://schwarmkraft.at/erneuerbare-energie/windkraft/windkraft-geschichte/

 

[LockH]

"those pedal less scooters masquerading as bikes are a joke and should not be regarded in the same class."

So, foot or hand pedals, or none... As a "joke" might one be laughing more after being hit/run over by a "scooter", or by a "SUV"?

Personally, I believe one of the sorta HUGE advantage of a ONE, two (or three) wheeled vehicles is that some of the risk is shifted to the operator of that vehicle (vs another ped, animal, or two/three-wheeled relatively light weight vehicle. Yes?

 

[markz]

I was getting irritated at the government as usual, they always irritate me when they over-spend, under-deliver and lie to get voted in, typical crooks. This is a very simple problem, there should be a universal law that restricts speed on powered bicycles, which is what the engineers do on the roads for automobiles. Its called a SPEED LIMIT.

You can have a 1000HP vehicle that can go 180mph, but you are still limited to the speed limit unless you want to be a hero and lose the ride (impound or crash) and your license or your life, like F&F "hero" Paul Walker. I look at it this way, you have a SMART car or you have a F450 Truck or you got a Ferrari. All made for different activities. Ones made to get you from point a to point B in a very fuel efficient manner, the second to haul 40,000 lbs of stuff while guzzling gas, the third is to look cool and hip to be able to pick up the ladies. So why change the law on ebikes, what if I want to be able to haul 500 lbs worth of bottles, or scrap metal to the depot, or be able to climb up a cliff or be a hero and do a wheelie down main street or be normal and just cruise on the bike path with no hands on the handlebars. All styles have a very wide power requirement. If the greasy government wants to restrict any kind of power rating, then those greasy geniuses should like-wise do the same with automobiles, the world will be much safer. But they wont, and the politicians will have their greedy hands out waiting for the tax money to blow on their next great big idea.

 

[LockH]

Ummm... One way maybe to "cut through" any "government" interference (?) is to outreach to voter? (The idea of getting around urban environments, at waaaay less cost to the operator for fuels, health care, etc., and faster than most other options sometimes, *may* appeal to some? Adding pedals, to extend range, help on up hills, generate electricity, w/bodily exercise (for human animals) thrown in AS AN OPTION, may appeal to some (voters)?

 

[LockH]

Caption reads: "OK, EVerybuddy pedal!"

 

[LockH]

there should be a universal law that restricts speed on powered bicycles, which is what the engineers do on the roads for automobiles. Its called a SPEED LIMIT.

And "speed limits" never change! ... Do they? But of course it is left up to the vehicle operator, and they *never* error... do they?