HS3545 is better than you

[Philistine]

I was going to do a proper review but I am lazy.

I just wanted to put this up because it is a wind that doesn't get much talk. I just put on a HS3545 (ie, NOT the HS3540 - the next faster wind), on a DH comp with Kiwi adaptors (26 inch wheels). I have it set up on 12S as it is my commuter bike, and I have the battery in a Toppeak bag that I have made a custom aluminium plate mount for, mounted to the forks in homage to Oatnet. The purpose of this bike is to be like my Greyborg, but stealthy, ie, the bike I can calmy ride past the po po and not expect to get trouble from the man.

So far it has worked flawlessly in this regards, apart from wondering why the paunchy human wreck is caning along at 60kph whilst sedately pedalling, the bike itself has lived up to all demands.

But this motor is just a sweet peach. I just don't understand people on this forum who like slow wind motors, I just don't understand the point of slow wind motors (unless you are hell bent on carrying massive loads of batteries for high voltage). This motor is faster than my X5404 on 20S, on 12S, but I actually also think in a drag race it would not lose much ground off the line. I just don't understand why everyone doesn't love fast wind motors. When friends ask me to suggest specs for a bike, I basically say that (unless you commute through the Himalayas or San Francisco) you should choose the fastest wind motor that your battery and controller budget (by budget I mean dollars and space/weight capacity) can handle, and work back from there.

My X5303 used to rape my controllers, but I have never ever found a hill it can't climb. Why wouldn't you want more speed than you need?

But this motor (HS3545) is just awesome, on 12S I am doing 65kph (60kph on perfect flat), and I can climb any hill in my city. It is extremely thirsty though, this thing eats amps like she has the starring role in Down the Hatch 4, but that is to be expected. I have it set to 50 amp battery/125 amp phase on 12S lipo, and it pulls 2kw pretty much all the time, but damn it goes hard, as I said, I actually think it matches my Gborg on 20S X5404 (it definately beats it on top speed). It gets my Lyen 12 Fet (With perfect airflow mounted on the downtube) very warm, but not toasty.

Anyway, just wanted to give my thumbs up to this motor, because I thought I loved my HS3540, but the HS3545 is even better.

Word.

 

[mvly]

I have the same motor with the temperature gauge on it. I don't know how hard or how long you are driving your motor, but this motor gets hot and fast on my 8 miles ride on mix of hills and flats. But mostly on flats @ 1.7KW continuous and it temperature rises to over 100C. I usually end my ride at 115C after a hard push to the the top of the hill at 40mph. But still the temperature does rise fast so I would keep and eye out for it. Other than the slight wobble, this motor is more than I need for the moment.

Fastest I clocked so far is 52mph on flat with no headwind so it is definitely a fast motor. Keep in mind I have capped my 18FET Lyen controller @ 50A so far. So I know I can go faster. Great motor. But only time can tell how long it will last. My old hs3548 only lasted about 3K miles before the halls died. I hope it will last 30K.

 

[Philistine]

I have the same motor with the temperature gauge on it. I don't know how hard or how long you are driving your motor, but this motor gets hot and fast on my 8 miles ride on mix of hills and flats. But mostly on flats @ 1.7KW continuous and it temperature rises to over 100C. I usually end my ride at 115C after a hard push to the the top of the hill at 40mph. But still the temperature does rise fast so I would keep and eye out for it. Other than the slight wobble, this motor is more than I need for the moment.

Fastest I clocked so far is 52mph on flat with no headwind so it is definitely a fast motor. Keep in mind I have capped my 18FET Lyen controller @ 50A so far. So I know I can go faster. Great motor. But only time can tell how long it will last. My old hs3548 only lasted about 3K miles before the halls died. I hope it will last 30K.

There is no doubt it gets a lot hotter (as well as controller) than slower motors, I am sure if you chucked big volts/amps at it it could be problematic, but for people looking for a motor to run on 12S, it is an awesome motor in my opinion. I don't live on a prarie either, my city although relatively flat does have mountains and hills, and as I said I can't find a hill/mountain that gives it grief.

 

[dogman dan]

There you go. You think that extra heat doesn't cost you range? In my climate, it costs you the whole motor, or at least the halls.

If you want a long ride and live in the Rocky Mountains, and it's 105F out, you start to appreciate a slow winding more than you appreciate top speed. 3-4 fried motors oughta convince you.

But you don't have to live in the mountains to blow all your range into heat. If you have a shitty route, and have to stop every block for miles, you can lose a lot of range to a fast winding. Same wattage on a slow wind might work better, more voltage so you still have some speed though. My extreme slow winding bike shines at stop and go. But it is extreme slow, so 25 mph might be too slow for some.

Most people don't need that slow of course. I just think a 2808 9c is a better choice than a 2807.

Don't misunderstand though, for you, that motor you like is perfect. Others just might need to squeeze more range from thier bike. So even just improving wh/mi by a few points might matter for that person. Typically, you get that just by slowing down 2 mph, but it's hard to do that if the bike WILL go fast eh? So for me, a slighly slower motor really helps if I must keep the speed down to make it there. I just naturally keep creeping up the speed if it's there.

 

[neptronix]

It's certainly nice to go fast on a small amount of volts, but you need to dump more amps in the motor to compensate.
What it comes down to is that watts are watts.

For my ultra slow wind magic pie, i didn't need 'tons of batteries', i just had to reconfigure a high amperage pack into a high voltage, low amperage pack - same watt hours - just a different configuration.

Your motor will get hot of course because 37mph/60kph continuous is a lot to ask of it. Time to install a 3 speed switch, to run it a bit lower. If you were to go with a lower speed wind and higher voltage, you might have gained a percent point or two of efficiency, but the issue remains the same, at 60kph you are getting close to running 2,000 watts continuous.

I'm sure it's a poor hill climber :/ but if you are in a flat area, no problem.

Stick that bad boy in a 24" or 20" wheel if you can. put that motor in the ebikes.ca simulator in a smaller wheel, and watch the efficiency, torque, and continuous power handling capability rise.. and you'll understand what i'm getting at ;]

 

[MadRhino]

There are many advantages to faster motors, but reliability is in slower ones if you want to use a normal size wheel and climb steep. I love the Clyte HS motors because their light weight is making it easy to achieve very good performance and ride quality, but I fried 3 already. I'm doing one with liquid cooling for the next season, that is my only hope to continue to use this motor practically.

Now my bikes have much heavier motors, Clyte 5404 and Cromotor. With those, I can achieve both performance and reliability in the mountains. Yet, when the trails are dry and nice, I miss the light weight of the H motors that gave me better downhill handling. On the street, I wouldn't trade the Cromotor for any other because I don't believe that my Demo 8 could be a better commuter than it is now. It's been perfectly reliable over 4000 Km of very aggressive riding with 24s lipo and 150A controller.

 

[spinningmagnets]

This is good info, but I feel compelled to warn noobs with an itchy wallet that...a direct drive hub with a speed winding will draw a lot of amps when accelerating from a stop (especially on an uphill). This might be hard on a LiFePO4 battery, so a set-up like this may require a LiPo pack, which is capable of a high C-rate discharge without harm.

 

[migueralliart]

I want to say that while my HS3540 is my first clyte motor. Running it on a 20" rim on my trike seems to give me good results and the powerband after 20mph is amazing. I'm also running 12S but not that many amps since I'm running it with lyen's mini monster controller (might move to the 12fet later). The acceleration at 35 amps thou seems good and fits my needs. I can't imagine 50 amps. But I agree with the OP, I love fast wind motors since I live in Florida!

 

[migueralliart]

This is good info, but I feel compelled to warn noobs with an itchy wallet that...a direct drive hub with a speed winding will draw a lot of amps when accelerating from a stop (especially on an uphill). This might be hard on a LiFePO4 battery, so a set-up like this may require a LiPo pack, which is capable of a high C-rate discharge without harm.

Or a A123 pack with no BMS and a cell level monitoring if you really wanna go lifepo4.

 

[Hyena]

I just don't understand people on this forum who like slow wind motors, I just don't understand the point of slow wind motors (unless you are hell bent on carrying massive loads of batteries for high voltage)

Some slow winds are not worth the trade off in top speed for supposed/ barely noticable gains in torque. Running a really low wind motor with a high voltage pack CAN be good though. For short range, flat ground /road riding a high speed motor is fine.

But this motor (HS3545) is just awesome, on 12S I am doing 65kph (60kph on perfect flat),

Really ? You checked your speedo calibration ? That sounds a little too fast for 12S, especially once allowing for sag at 50a
I'm pretty sure this wind is what the stealth fighters use standard and they top out around 50km/hr. Granted this is in a 24" wheel but it's higher nominal higher voltage too (51v nominal or there abouts)

I can climb any hill in my city. It is extremely thirsty though, this thing eats amps

Yep, that's the trade off. High speed motors CAN still climb but as you've found they suck down bulk amps, which is largely dumped as heat which is just wasted energy and will cook your motor. Road ridden it will survive, but ride it hard offroad and it will burn. This is where slow wind motors come in, they'll climb just as well but be in more in their efficiency range. They won't draw as much current thus won't dump as much wasted heat so you'll go further on a charge and get more longevity out of your motor. Although at a glance you think you need to lug more batteries around the actual watt hours you chew is about the same, if not better for the slow wind motor.
Ie. you'll get around the same distance from a 10ah 18S battery as you will from a 12S 15ah pack (for the same physical number and size of cells)
I found this when I build a commuter with a high speed mac motor on 12S. It didn't have the torque of my big DD hubs but scooted along OK. As above though it sucked down the amp hours at a much higher rate

I've looked long hard for a free lunch but so far haven't found an all your can eat buffet for the right price

High speed motors CAN be efficient though, and I've found the bigger the better. Again it all comes down to minimising wasted heat. I love the H4080 on my fighter and if I resist pinning the throttle it's surprisingly more efficient than my 9C. With the same battery voltage and current the 9C will use about 7ah getting me 16km to work while the 4080 will only use around 5ah.

 

[Philistine]

Yeah I should have made clear, I am talking in the context of commuting.

I have calibrated my speedo perfectly (it is a CA with a speedo and the speedo is calibrated to the tire by actually measuring the tire, so speedo is perfectly calibrated). It will definately do 60kph on the flat, which I would expect because my 5303 can do 60 kph on the flat on 12S. But both motors spend most of their time in the mid to high 50kph. I think that is the perfect commuting speed in Aus, because as long as you are under 60kph the popo generally leave you alone in my opinion.

I totally understand the issue about efficiency etc.., but I am making the point about commuting, because to me 12S is a good voltage for a bunch of reasons, such as needing a smaller charger for the same amps, less wiring etc.. I have also found that I now prefer my 12S bikes over my 20S bikes, because they are a lot more reliable. Oviously that is because I am running 50amps on both voltages, so the 20S bikes are putting out nearly double the watts and hence leads to more issues. I have never cooked a motor on 12S, only on 20S. I find that 2kw is a real sweet spot of performance and reliability. once you go into the 3-4kw+ country you get a lot more breakdowns.

As for cooking motors on 12S, as I said I live in a pretty flat city, but it is by no means a prarie, we do have mountains (we have a world class mountain bike course), and whilst I have cooked motors on 20S, I have never cooked a fast wind (I have a HS3540, a HS3545 and a 5303 all in 26 inch) on 12S, I have never even come close (I have come very close to cooking my HS3540 on 20S/50amp though, in fact most good long rides ended in the waft of varnish).

This bike is just a dream commuter, it has all the comfort of my Greyborg in terms of suspension etc.., although the handling is a bit effected by the batteries up on the forks, it is worth it for the stealth.

 

[Hyena]

Yeah for commuting they're good because even with hills it's rare you'll be climbing them constantly and you're not on and off the power as aggressively as you might be offroading. I guess as you say if you keep the power down to around 2kw you'll be fine either way with a motor of this size. If stealth run them at 3kw with minimal issues offroading then you're going to be fine and dandy for onroad use at 2kw.

What size pack are you using ? A 15ah pack made of 6S bricks 3 long and 2 wide fits perfectly on most frames along the top bar without interfering with your legs to pedal, handling is good and is quite stealthy IMO. It leaves the triangle open and clear which goes along way towards reducing your side profile at a glance to those in blue shirts.
I don't know if I showed you my commuter set up when I dropped in at your place earlier in the year but it's quite low key and unassuming, especially when you're sitting on it with half the pack and controller covered by your legs at any given time. Quite the sleeper considering it peaks at 5kw

This is it (taken just up the road from your place too!)

 

[winkinatcha]

...Quite the sleeper considering it peaks at 5kw

Damn Straight, H... I'da never believed that build would be capable of 5kw just by glancing at it... Doffs me lid, I does.

Joe

 

[Chalo]

The main reason you may want a slow wind motor is because peak efficiency lives at around 80% of the motor's free (no load) speed. If you cruise at that speed, you win. If you cruise at a much lower speed than that, you may get better performance (peak power is at about 50% of free speed), but at the cost of much reduced efficiency. That means a hot motor, and more battery required to realize the same range.

Slow wind motors like big wheels. And big wheels are awesome.

 

[dogman dan]

As the slow wind kook on this forum, just for the record, I NEVER said slow windings have higher torque. I take objection to vendors who call the slower motors the torque model.

But if your choice of rim size means a fast motor runs less efficient, you ARE getting less of your same potential torque to the rubber. It may not be enough less to matter though.

If you are running a 20" rim, you cannot compare your winding speed with that of a motor in a 26" rim. It's apples and oranges unless all variables are same. What's a "fast" winding in 26" may be slow to medium fast in 20"

Re commuting, if you have a stop sign you actually stop at every block, it can be better to have a slow winding on higher voltage. Or if you will be riding slow the entire ride to get maximum wh/mi, then it's a different situation. Then there is no reason at all to want to have a faster top speed than you will ever ride.

Match your motor to your ride. It's a perfect match for Philistine. His motor isn't melting, he's not running out of range, and he's got the speed he wants with a simple battery. But my needs are different, with long punishing uphill rides to get home in desert heat. So for me a cooler motor is the main goal.