Hyperion EOS 1420i NET3 14s Balance Charger...

[AussieJester]

or am I missing something?

Totally... The Hyperion isn't a AC powered charger i.e you can't plug it into the mains
(those new wall plugs in Tassie Houses...you may have alight running off one now )
The meanwel is only being used to power the Hyperion, its an RC charger, it will charge
lipos, nicads, a123s etc etc of all combination's, you need ONE psu to power the Hyperion, simply
set appropriate settings on the Hyperion for whatever pack you wish to charger. Gary is using
a pair of 24v meanwels in paralel to power his Hyperion, as Mitch has said above, you could use a 12v PC PSU
if you wished but it would take longer to charge, Mr Goodrum is about the fast charging hence the 2x 24v PSU.


KiM

 

[neptronix]

ha, i think this talk of using meanwells AS chargers has got some people confused..

 

[damonjackson_spl]

ok so the power supply can be a meanwell 24 or 48 doesnt really matter, and we can tell the hyperion what to charge 22v, 48v etc so power supply doesnt really matter, other than charge time?

 

[AussieJester]

ok so the power supply can be a meanwell 24 or 48 doesnt really matter, and we can tell the hyperion what to charge 22v, 48v etc so power supply doesnt really matter, other than charge time?

yes...except for the meanwel having to being under 27v to power the hyperion...

KiM

 

[neptronix]

ok so the power supply can be a meanwell 24 or 48 doesnt really matter, and we can tell the hyperion what to charge 22v, 48v etc so power supply doesnt really matter, other than charge time?

The power supply can be whatever power supply you chose. I have a radio shack one i use for example for my icharger, i could use it for a hyperion, tunirgy charger, whatever.

If the hyperion takes 24v input , you can use a 24v power supply.

Most RC chargers want 10-20v as far as i know, though.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

If the hyperion takes 24v input , you can use a 24v power supply.

Most RC chargers want 10-20v as far as i know, though.

http://www.empirerc.com/hyperion-eos-1420i-net3-charger-1s-14s-20a-max-550w-p-5669.html

A brand-new power supply technology is boosting the charging power to 550W when the input voltage is between 24V and 28V. Of course you can still operate the EOS 1420i NET3 on the typical 12V also but with less overall wattage.

Luke said that the iCharger's are isolated so you can use multiple iCharger's without serial disconnecting.

Very interesting, but i don't understand how that works at all. Care to explain? Seems like 1 iCharger would be seeing double the voltage and that could be a problem

I'm sorry, I can't explain how it works other than that isolated inputs are the key.

To do a sync charge with two 14s packs, they can't be connected in series, so something is not isolated somewhere.

I have two of these, each setup to charge 1/2 of the 24s3p setup on my bike. I leave the two 12s3p packs connected in series, on the bike. I use two S-350-24 MeanWell supplies in parallel, with each 1420i charger, so that each can max out at 550W. This basically lets me balance charge a full 100V and about 11-12A, max.

-- Gary

For example I'm pretty sure the reason Gary can leave his 24s pack connected is that the MeanWell supplies are isolated. So I think I know why it works but if you want to know how it works you need to ask Gary, Luke, Richard etc...

 

[GGoodrum]

Yes, Mitch is right. The MWs have isolated outputs, so the chargers can then be isolated. In the end, it is all about how much charge power you can get to the pack(s) at one time. "Sync" charging is somewhat meaningless, in my mind, unless you aren't charging at all, but just want to use the balancer mode to balance all the cells to the same point. You can do the same thing while charging the cells, and the cells end up charged and balanced to the same point anyway, so "sync" charging doesn't get you anything, in my opinion.

Having to use separate supplies, to power each charger, is a non-issue, in my case, because in order to get the full 550W out of the 1420i units, you need a supply that can put out 650-700W, and they need to be about 26-28V. By far the cheapest/most readily available MW options are the SP-320-24 and S-350-24 models. For bulk charging my 24s3p setup I've been using four S-350-24s, wired in series. Now, with the Hyperion chargers, I just split the four into two pairs, and wired them in parallel so that I have two setups that can each put out about 26A at 27V. Each of these are then used to drive a 1420i.

-- Gary

 

[El_Steak]

Yes, Mitch is right. The MWs have isolated outputs, so the chargers can then be isolated. In the end, it is all about how much charge power you can get to the pack(s) at one time. "Sync" charging is somewhat meaningless, in my mind, unless you aren't charging at all, but just want to use the balancer mode to balance all the cells to the same point. You can do the same thing while charging the cells, and the cells end up charged and balanced to the same point anyway, so "sync" charging doesn't get you anything, in my opinion.

Just to be sure:

- You are running 2 hyperion 1420i chargers on separate isolated power supplies (MW in parallel).
- You can charge your 2 x 12s subpacks simultaneously (each on 1 charger) while the whole pack is in series (24s).
- Should you connect the "sync" networking cable between the 2 chargers this would create a short ?

I also don't view the "sync" feature as that important but want to know if it would still work if your chargers are on separate isolated supplies.

 

[GGoodrum]

Just to be sure:

- You are running 2 hyperion 1420i chargers on separate isolated power supplies (MW in parallel).

Yes, that is right. Two MWs per 1420i.

- You can charge your 2 x 12s subpacks simultaneously (each on 1 charger) while the whole pack is in series (24s).

Yes, they are basically permanently connected in series on the bike. I bring out one 18-pin AMP VAL-U-LOK connector for each 12s3p pack. Each of these connectors use 14-pins for the balance wires, and two-each for the main charge + and - connections. All I do is plug in the MeanWells, and then plug the two 18-pin plugs, one from each 1420i, hit start on both chargers, and that's it.

- Should you connect the "sync" networking cable between the 2 chargers this would create a short ?

Yes, magic smoke will be forthcoming.

I also don't view the "sync" feature as that important but want to know if it would still work if your chargers are on separate isolated supplies.

It would work if I wanted to break the series connection between the two 12s3p pack, but what's the point? I can now basically charge my whole 24s3p setup at 11-12A and end up with balanced cells, every time. No muss, no fuss.

-- Gary

 

[El_Steak]

This is a great solution, at long last I can permanently wire and stop fiddling with those serial-to-parallel adapters.

I almost bought and additional 3 iChargers 206b last week (4 total) so I could accomplish the same thing. I much prefer this solution with just 2 chargers to deal with.

I'll see how your drop shipment experiment goes with Miles and if it works OK, I'll buy 2 from you. If not, I can always source them locally in Canada.

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

Maybe one last improvement suggestion, you could swap the 18 pins VAL-U-LOK connectors for the 20 pins variant and use the additional 2 pins on each connector to wire-in the charger's temp sensor inside your pack. Just an extra safety measure available for free.

 

[GGoodrum]

I'll see how your drop shipment experiment goes with Miles and if it works OK, I'll buy 2 from you. If not, I can always source them locally in Canada.

It works but they apparently ship via USPS' international Parcel Post option, rather than international Priority Mail, so it could take a bit longer, and it seems pricey, at that (around $35...). I'm still looking into this, so we'll see. Ideally, I'd like them to use Priority Mail and use the flat-rate PM boxes. Otherwise, it might be cheaper to just buy it locally

Maybe one last improvement suggestion, you could swap the 18 pins VAL-U-LOK connectors for the 20 pins variant and use the additional 2 pins on each connector to wire-in the charger's temp sensor inside your pack. Just an extra safety measure available for free.

The 1420i units do have a temp input, but you have to order the sensor separately. I have never used them, as I don't ever have a pack get above room temperature. If cells have a problem, there's plenty of other safeguards that will stop the charge process.

-- Gary

 

[hillzofvalp]

Let me rephrase:

what charge rate could I see when I hook up my 1420i to my 430w psu that has a 32A net max on the 3 12v rails combined (16A individually but they are all hooked up at one)? this is for a 7s2p or 6s2p a123 26650 pack.

Also, how I limit the current coming out of the psu to the hyperion to 10A? (banana posts are rated at 10A, so if I did go higher I would have to rewire)

I can get 384W out of my 3 12V rails combined. MAX of 32A. Other specs here:
http://www.digiconcepts.com/antec_powersupplies_24.htm

 

[GGoodrum]

Let me rephrase:

what charge rate could I see when I hook up my 1420i to my 430w psu that has a 32A net max on the 3 12v rails combined (16A individually but they are all hooked up at one)? this is for a 7s2p or 6s2p a123 26650 pack.

In both cases, the charger should max out at 20A. Basically, what you do is take 550W and divide it by the pack voltage the charger will see. For a 7s LiFoPO4 pack, that will be about 25V, and 550/25=22A. The max the charger will do is 20A

Also, how I limit the current coming out of the psu to the hyperion to 10A? (banana posts are rated at 10A, so if I did go higher I would have to rewire)

There's a setup item that lets you limit the input current, but I wouldn't worry at all about putting 20A through a banana post, any banana post.

I can get 384W out of my 3 12V rails combined. MAX of 32A. Other specs here:
http://www.digiconcepts.com/antec_powersupplies_24.htm

You need to have higher than 12V in order to get the 1420i chargers to max out. If they are isolated, maybe you could put two in series.

-- Gary

 

[GGoodrum]

International shipping update...

It took 14 days for the international Parcel Post shipment to finally reach Miles. This was definitely worst case, sue to the weather, and to the holidays, but I'm still trying to convince them to not only use Priority Mail, but more importantly, use the flat-rate packaging , which cuts the rates significantly.

-- Gary

 

[johnrobholmes]

I got a few of these chargers for myself, and they are just what we need for a high quality and reliable charger! Much more precise than the current ebike charging kits, and just a bit more hassle to use. If only we could have something that was plug and play for the dumber users that aren't hobbyists.

 

[Philistine]

I got two of these to charge my 20S4P Turnigy pack and I can't say enough good things about them. I had been charging as four seperate strings on a Hobbyking Quatro (which was 50W per channel). I usually charged after 10 AH of discharge on my pack, and it would take me hours to balance charge. I just got back from a 11.5 AH ride, and balance charged my whole pack in 74 mins (it had basically charged after about 50 mins, the rest was balancing) to within 2 mv difference. The accuracy is amazing.

I am charging the pack as two seperate 10s packs on two seperate 26 Volt 30 Amp PSUs.

You can adjust the capacity % to lower your final charge level to prolong pack life, and can also reduce your final voltage down to 4.18 per cell if you want (this is supposed to be used to account for resistance in charge leads etc.., but can effectively be used to slightly reduce the final volt per cell level).

You can set the pack AH capacity to a maximum of 50AH. I used to have to reset my Hobbyking as it would max out/stop after 5AH of capacity.

As I said I have been blown away by how good they are, having said that I was coming from a 200w hobbyking quatro...

 

[GGoodrum]

International shipping update...

It took 14 days for the international Parcel Post shipment to finally reach Miles. This was definitely worst case, sue to the weather, and to the holidays, but I'm still trying to convince them to not only use Priority Mail, but more importantly, use the flat-rate packaging , which cuts the rates significantly.

-- Gary

I pushed them on doing flat-rate Priority Mail and now they have come back and said they can only drop-ship to North American customers, so that means the US and Canada, period.

-- Gary

 

[GGoodrum]

Another update...

What I've decided to do is offer the drop-ship option for US addresses, and for international orders, I'll have them shipped here first, and then I will re-ship them using flat-rate international Priority Mail. For US orders, I still need to figure out what the real shipping costs are, as I don't really know what they are yet, as I don't know until I see what they charged my account. I have two on their way to the east coast and I have two more being shipped here, so I will know in the next day, or so. At that point, I will be able to enable these on my site, with the proper shipping charges, both for domestic and international orders. In the meantime, if someone wants one, PM me and I will send you a quote, including shipping.

-- Gary

 

[El_Steak]

Here's my Hyperion 1420i-based charging solution.

I'm about to install everything neatly in boxes but thought I'd take a picture with all the connections before. I have a 24s3p setup, so this is only one side of the pack (12s); also, only 2 packs are connected instead of 6 to remove clutter on the pic.

As you can see, I've connected everything with a single DB25 connector. With that single connection to the charger I get all of my balance taps connected (14 pins), my main charge leads (8 pins) and a safety cut-off temp sensor in case the batteries would start to heat up during charge (3 pins). So when I come in after my commute, I only have to plug in that DB25 and press start on the charger (twice because of my 24s setup). No serial to parallel connection, no BMS or any other sort of custom HVC required. And above all, no risk of KFF.

This all-in-one connector is Gary's idea, although he's using beefier VAL-U-LOK connectors. I used DB25's because I have a large bag of them and I think they are good enough for the job.

Inside the connector, the balance wires are connected with 22AWG wire. This is small but I haven't noticed any significant difference in voltage readings right at the battery or at the end of the DB25 wire. Balancing is also precise and accurate. The 1420i stops the current often while charging to make more accurate measurements.

The main leads are connected with 20 AWG (largest that fits in the solder cups). There are 4 short wires for the positive and 4 short wires for the negative. They are connected to a single 14 AWG wire right after the connector (4 x 20 AWG is the same cross-sectional area as 1 x 14 AWG). I haven't noticed any heat on the connector while charging. As for the DB25 pins, I've seen ratings anywhere from 2A to 7.5A continuous per pin. 5A seems to be the most common value I see.

Finaly, when riding, I'll connect the pack to another set of DB25 connectors, each connected to 2 x Celllogs8 to monitor each individual cell. I'm working on a neat dashboard incorporating the cellogs and some LOUD piezo buzzers in case any cell dips lower than 3.4V (adjustable).

 

[AussieJester]

Very impressive, i hope my setup turns out as neat, i intend to do the exact wiring
with exception to using the DB25 connectors... Thankyou for taking the time to take
& post a clear labeled pic of your wiring, should make it easier for those new to LiPO
setups to make them selves a wiring harness to bulk charge and balance their
LiPOs simultaneously without re-configuring packs PLUS the added bonus of on plug
charging/balancing solution...

KiM

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

This all-in-one connector is Gary's idea, although he's using beefier VAL-U-LOK connectors. I used DB25's because I have a large bag of them and I think they are good enough for the job.

The main leads are connected with 20 AWG (largest that fits in the solder cups). There are 4 short wires for the positive and 4 short wires for the negative. They are connected to a single 14 AWG wire right after the connector (4 x 20 AWG is the same cross-sectional area as 1 x 14 AWG). I haven't noticed any heat on the connector while charging. As for the DB25 pins, I've seen ratings anywhere from 2A to 7.5A continuous per pin. 5A seems to be the most common value I see.

Finally, when riding, I'll connect the pack to another set of DB25 connectors, each connected to 2 x Celllogs8 to monitor each individual cell. I'm working on a neat dashboard incorporating the cellogs and some LOUD piezo buzzers in case any cell dips lower than 3.4V (adjustable).

Are the VAL-U-LOK connectors big enough to allow single wire main leads?

Aren't the LVC and the Celllogs8 with the LOUD piezo buzzers redundant?

 

[chroot]

Where do you find 7s LiPo battery? I can find is 6s, 8s, and 10s. Never see 7s anywhere on HobbyKing.

 

[El_Steak]

Are the VAL-U-LOK connectors big enough to allow single wire main leads?

I don't think so. According to Gary they can handle up to 9A each:

Yes, I like the VAL-U-LOK connector idea a lot as well. These are very robust connectors, with pins that can handle up to about 9A, each. I'm looking at offering some pre-made harnesses as options with the charger.

Aren't the LVC and the Celllogs8 with the LOUD piezo buzzers redundant?

Yes and no. The Celllog8 / Piezo will give me advanced warning (adjustable) while the LVC will cut me off at the last moment (3V)

Actually, I wasn't planning on installing the celllogs when I first got the LVC boards, but after I came up with the simple DB25 connectors, I thought it be neat to had them in some sort of "dashboard"

 

[johnrobholmes]

I like the dashboard idea as well, post up somewhere when you get it all together!


I gotta just give my two cents again on this charger, I am really liking it. Hyperion quality, great price, and it works with zero hassle on my 10s and 12s packs.

 

[neptronix]

Where do you find 7s LiPo battery? I can find is 6s, 8s, and 10s. Never see 7s anywhere on HobbyKing.

You won't find them on HK. Get 5s packs and a 4s pack instead.
You will have to wire a custom balance connection. But doing so is quite easy.