Infineon 30A to BMC 600W (former Lipo problem)

[chemosavi]

Bought a BLUE 10AH 36 volt LithiumPhosphate two years ago along with a charger for around $600 and it worked fine for the first year and a half.

Then the charger would sometimes not kick in, ie, go orange when I plugged in the battery.

Unplugging it and replugging it worked for awhile but now it goes green and stays that way when the battery only has 23Volts of charge in it. I checked it with two ammeters to be sure.

Now, nothing works and I have no lights or power to the throttle.

So...do I need a new BMS? Or a new charger? Or a new EVERYTHING?

 

[amberwolf]

Sounds like just a problem with the charger connector, since mechanically plugging/unplugging used to fix it but does not now. Either one of the wires in the cable is broken or loose inside, or the contacts are spread out and no longer touching.

 

[chemosavi]

I wish it were so simple but all contacts are good. With charger connected I get 41 volts before battery. Same connects after battery (mains to controller, not skinny charge wires) reads 36V. Unplug charger and battery has 21V. Green light on the whole time, connected or not. Very mysterious. Charger pumping out 41 volts whether connected to battery or not.

My only conclusion would be that the $600 battery is no longer taking a charge after about 40 chargings. Bad cells?

I've had three Makita 18v batteries go bad after one year of ownership and seen many similar reports from other drill owners.

 

[amberwolf]

If I understand correctly, then you have the charger connected to the battery at the same time the battery is connected to the controller? (not a problem, just figuring this out)

So then the voltage at charger/battery interface is 41V, and the battery/controller interface is only 36V, at the same time?

This sounds like there is a connection problem and voltage is being dropped somewhere across one--it could be something as simple as a bad spot weld or wire that is breaking inside it's insulation (usually at one end or the other), so that it is still making *a* connection, just not a very good one, causing a voltage drop.

If the BMS has some limitation in it that it doesn't start a charge cycle on the cells unless it sees a voltage above some setpoint, it might never be charging them at all.


Bad cells could also cause a problem, but it sounds more like connections to me.

 

[chemosavi]

It's a Yesa Battery . Not sold anymore by Comcycle.

"If the BMS has some limitation in it that it doesn't start a charge cycle on the cells unless it sees a voltage above some setpoint, it might never be charging them at all." Exactly how the charger works on my Makita Drill. Tells me battery is crap.

OK, Due to your EXCELLENT advice I ripped open the blue plastic on the battery and found a link between some cells has completely disintegrated. Most likely the culprit!

I shall resolder the cells and see what happens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's charging!

 

[amberwolf]

8)

 

[Drunkskunk]

You're trying to recharge a lipo thats dropped below 2.9 volts a cell?

:|

I see you posted that yesterday. How many fire trucks ended up ariving?

 

[chemosavi]

Luckily I was able to save my favorite chisel after my shop burned down. Actually the charger was not charging because it saw too low a voltage so technically there was no danger of fire. I always charge in the middle of an empty space above a concrete floor anyways.

Actually the battery charged for four hours to get up to a full charge @36V after resoldering. No go with the bike, however so I think the controller is bad. Ordered a new Infineon instead of the BMC the kit came with @ Evtech. It was the second controller Doug sent me after the first ate it in the first week. Now he says he doesn't sell any BMC stuff because it's poorly made. This e-bike curve is kinda rough..... Here be the bike......Made some studded tires to ride in the snow and ice last year. lotsa fun.

 

[chemosavi]

If anyone could post a link to a page describing how to wire a BMC (1000W, Evtech) Hub to the Infineon Electric Bike Motor Controller 36-48V 20A it would be very much appreciated.View attachment 8675151.jpg

 

[chemosavi]

So now I think I might have too weak a controller and confusing ideas as to which wire goes where...???...!!!
Should I send the new Infineon 20A back to replace it with the next size up before I start hooking things up?


"The more you learn the less you know" seems to be the name of the game in eBike knowledge.
This about wiring Infineon controllers as per ebike.ca....

"As it is now, the infineon controllers have a direct colour matching with the Nine Continent and BMC hubs. However, with both the Crystalyte and eZee motors, a swap is required. With our connector standards it is the blue and the green that are swapped."http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_controllers.php

Then a chart from cycle9 says something different as per the photo below.

Also cycle9 (Morgan) has this to say about Infineon controllers being misrepresented amperage wise....

"We started using infineon controllers recently. They seem to work well, but recently we got a big batch of various size controllers. Guess what? The "20A" controllers limit out at 13A, and the "30A" controllers limit out around 20A. I know why they did this - because I'm sure they've had problems with people burning them when running at the full rated limit. So they programmed them to operate below the limit. That means that a so-called "20A" is not really "20A" but "13A". Rather than send them back (a big expense), we'll now be selling the so-called "30A" controllers as "20A". Maybe that is a good thing - to sell under-rated controllers. It should significantly reduce the probability of failure. But it also makes it look like less of a bargain, asking people to pay more for a lower-rated controller." http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...3602&hilit=bmc+to+infineon+controller#p203602

To repeat, now I think I might have too weak a controller and confusing ideas as to which wire goes where...???...!!!
Should I send the new Infineon 20A back to replace it with the next size up before I start hooking things up?

 

[chemosavi]

Installing Infineon 30A controller to BMC 600w motor. Got three completely different posted wiring possibilities from three retailers Ebikes.ca, cycle9 and comcycle (E-sphere dirt___) plus some posted on this forum.

WHICH ONE TO CHOSE?

Do the Knuckles test is the only safe way.

SO, ladies and gentlemen, in order to keep the future of KIT electric bikes just the way it is, small and kinky and really hard for your average DIY'er, don't do anything different. I know it has a lot to do with a foreign country and no established color coding so let's hope something gets a little more nailed down in the future. Like controllers that come with some charts or at least links to places that you don't have to spend six hours finding and doing endless research.

Infineon 30A from Comcycle... to BMC 600W motor...working colors for wires

Phase: (Thicker wires)
Blue to blue
yellow to green
green to yellow


Halls:
Red to Red
Black to Black
Blue to Blue
Green to Yellow
Yellow to Green

chart below posted on Cycle9's site......maybe it works with THEIR Infineons but it didn't with mine, sounded horrible and blew a fuse.

 

[chemosavi]

Dennis at Comcycle USA finally got around to sending me the manual in the form of a file (manual.doc) a week after receiving the controller so he's not all bad. Probably just too busy. It looks to be very comprehensive and explains what all of the wires do and what combination's work with various motors. Hooray!

 

[Harold in CR]

All these controllers made in China ??? Someday, people will realize that things made in Chine are not worth what you pay in aggravation. Isn't there a few guys on the forum that are building controllers ??? I my self, choose to NOT buy things made in China, IF I can determine that fact. Nearly everything sold down here, is Hecho en Cheena

This is a good reason why the Manufacturing sector of the USA is no longer a factor in the economy.

 

[chemosavi]

I don't care if it was made in the mountains of Afghanistan by the Taliban (well not quite but U get the jist, eh), I want whoever sold it to me to take responsibility for what it is and what it does and does not do. Something Ecrazy at least is making an effort towards. US distribution of Chinese goods is by now a moot point. Slobs pumping crap just to milk the market is what pee's me off.

 

[recumbent]

Did your 30amp Infineon controler from Comcycle deliver more than 20 amps? Because the one I purchased from them a year ago has 100 volt capacitors inside.

 

[chemosavi]

I finally received the MANUAL for the Infineon 30A controller which also references the 20A and next size larger than the 30A. WHAT A WONDERFUL THING IT IS! Very clear and concise. Why COMCYCLE USA and everybody else (Shenzen) keeps the thing hidden and unavailable is beyond me because it explains everything. Halls, phase leads, tester, jumper, cycle meter, wattage, mosfets, different motors, etc. The whole cucumber.

I'd post it but not sure about copyright regs.

Back from 20 mile ride and everything is working like a fairy tale. Three power settings, not a touch of heat in the controller going up steep hills. Good speed, power, etc.

Perfect.