Is this how bbso1s behave?

[chibi-sphere]

Hi,

today I took a bike with a BBS01 on it for a test ride. It seemed to behave unlike my expectations.
On level 5 it was a bit of a struggle getting it up the steep hills, but if I put my thumb on the throttle it became reasonably zippy.
Why isn't level 5 and the throttle the same power? Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm pedalling with the throttle on that's like level 6 assist in'it?
Seems strange, especially since, legally, you're only allowed to go 6kph under throttle here. If the bike was setup that way, it would be useless.

And it kept getting itself stuck in level 1. We were mucking around with it at the shop and the tech guy was running the throttle. Somehow he got it to display level 5 but it was only giving level 1 assist. He wheeled it backwards!! and then all of a sudden it was level 5 again! And that's what it was doing when I first started riding it, then all of a sudden, for no apparent reason it started properly assisting me!

thanks for any info
chibi

 

[tomjasz]

How many gears on you bike? Which gear were you using to climb?

 

[chibi-sphere]

9 and the lowest gear, but that's beside the point.

Even on the flat the motor was supplying a bit of assist and then the throttle supplied a lot more, like a 6th level of pedal assist.
Surely that means the 5th level isn't set to 100% right?

 

[KINNINVIEKID]

With standard programming the throttle does give a boost over whichever assist level it is in but it can be altered to give full throttle at all times.
The problem of being stuck on an assist level is one I have never heard of.

Look here for an explanation... https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58780&hilit=BBS+02

 

[chibi-sphere]

I see... so its more like a booster switch than a throttle on a motor bike for instance??

So is that how people ride them? Using the throttle to get up steep hills? And the power assist at other times? That's not how off the rack bikes work do they? Because they can only go 6kph on the throttle here and in europe.

 

[chibi-sphere]

Oooohh... so I found this programming guide
http://www.kiiku.com/29er_Road_warrior/BBS02_C965A/Bafang_BBSXX_Programming_Guide_emax_ebikes.pdf

which says "Keep Current – Specifies the total amount of power available in PAS mode. Best to leave below 100
and use throttle as 100% ‘boost’."
and another person on this forum saying
'I managed to tune up the PAS now to the same level as the throttle. The "Keep Current(%)" setting was set to 20 in the stock configuration. I hadn't played with it before, but I set it to 100, and now I get full power while pedaling. "

So it says leave below 100, but does anyone know a safe upper limit for Keep Current?

 

[alfantastic]

Oooohh... so I found this programming guide
http://www.kiiku.com/29er_Road_warrior/BBS02_C965A/Bafang_BBSXX_Programming_Guide_emax_ebikes.pdf

which says "Keep Current – Specifies the total amount of power available in PAS mode. Best to leave below 100
and use throttle as 100% ‘boost’."
and another person on this forum saying
'I managed to tune up the PAS now to the same level as the throttle. The "Keep Current(%)" setting was set to 20 in the stock configuration. I hadn't played with it before, but I set it to 100, and now I get full power while pedaling. "

So it says leave below 100, but does anyone know a safe upper limit for Keep Current?

I've had my BBS02 on 100% ' Keep Current ' for the last 2000 miles. As long as you program the controller with a low ' Start Current(%) ', then you'll be ok. Mine's on 50%, but I'm very mechanically friendly when riding. I would recommend as low as 10%.

Also, all the BBSxx series of motors like to be kept spinning fast, so utilize the gears to keep that baby spinning.

 

[tomjasz]

9 and the lowest gear, but that's beside the point.

Even on the flat the motor was supplying a bit of assist and then the throttle supplied a lot more, like a 6th level of pedal assist.
Surely that means the 5th level isn't set to 100% right?

Sorry, it ISN'T beside the point. Steep hills should be in 1st or second gear. You'll fry that motor if you're trying to climb a hill in 9th gear on a 9 speed system. You'll need a program cable to know how you are programmed.

 

[chibi-sphere]

I've had my BBS02 on 100% ' Keep Current ' for the last 2000 miles. As long as you program the controller with a low ' Start Current(%) ', then you'll be ok. Mine's on 50%, but I'm very mechanically friendly when riding. I would recommend as low as 10%.

Also, all the BBSxx series of motors like to be kept spinning fast, so utilize the gears to keep that baby spinning.

Thanks Alf. There is another shop in this city where they install BBS01s without a throttle, so that must mean they set the Keep Current to 100. That also makes it street legal.
I'm liking the Keep Current=100 idea more and more.

Now you bring me to my next question ... gears.
I have 700cc wheels. I'm planning to get the bling ring 42T chain ring and a new cluster 11-34T. Will that 42/34 low gear be low enough?

thanks for your help.

 

[chibi-sphere]

Oh, turns out the bike I rode yesterday has 700cc wheels too, so if 46/36 was Ok, then 42/34 should also be Ok, but I'm guessing a 36 would be even better??

 

[dtx]

So having a BBS01 I can help you out a bit:

Put PAS to zero, use the throttle. If you don't you'll just go insane and if you pedal along it's indistinguishable for the police

As for the gearing I now have a lekkie ring with my 29er and it's much much better! As far as the granny gear: go as low as you possibly can! You may have to get a longer chain.

 

[chibi-sphere]

Why would I go insane if I don't set PAS to 0???

 

[dtx]

Because the PAS is super annoying and once you get used to using your throttle you will never want to go back to PAS. The PAS is also limiting your cadence in lower levels which is super annoying to deal with. I have tried PAS for a month, then went full throttle and never looked back.

 

[Ykick]

I tend to use PAS more as a cruise control than anything else. Throttle for majority of my riding but when it's a long boring stretch I hunt for a happy PAS level and fake pedal to keep power flowing.

 

[tomjasz]

I tried a 30T in place of the 46. Mountain goat 30T x 34T. VBG. I also ran a 52T but wasn't happy with the watts drawn and expected problems. But with proper management and no hills it made the 01 a pretty quick ride. Like kick I find pas an effective cruise control. Still my favorite multiuser bike/walking/skating path bike on busy days. Fast enough but not to fast for all the activity. Blowing by the costumed road bike riders with the BBSHD is still fun when they get all road hog minded. Just not happy with v brakes at 30mph. I love the power sipping of the 01.

 

[alfantastic]

Why would I go insane if I don't set PAS to 0???

On the flip side of what dtx has said, If you program each PAS level to match your gears, then it will feel more natural when riding.

I have never fitted a throttle, but I tinkered with the programming to match my gears and riding style. I do have to manually change the PAS level whilst riding, but it has become intuitive and I don't even look at the display to know which PAS mode I'm in.

You won't go insane, believe me

 

[chibi-sphere]

Thanks alf. Yeah, I was thinking that it would feel more intuitive to me if Keep Current was 100 and then use a lower PAS for flattish riding, and 5 for hills because with the throttle the other day, since I guess Keep Current was at 60 (I think that's the default), that would be like PAS 2 Keep Current 100, and PAS 5 would be like having the throttle on. I think.
Well, I've gone ahead and ordered all the doo-hickeys I need to convert my road bike to a commuter, (flat bars, pod shifter etc.) so I guess I'm committed now. I'm both excited and a bit trepidacious!

 

[nioko]

I'm running keep current on 100% for 7000km now (all year / all weather). No throttle connected, BBS02.
There is absolutely no reason to clown pedal / disable pas, if it is setup right.

There are however some things to consider:
- Start Current: If you go to high, and are in a high assist level, on slippery ground, this can be dangerous. So use your assist level, to compensate the lack of torque sensing. I'm running 9 Levels of assist to do so.
- Shifting under load: As the BBS don't have torque sensing, it is important to start in the right gear, and shift when the rpm is high / load is small. It's like running through the gears when accelerating a Car, always shift just before redline.
- Depending on the power, it'll still be hard on the derailleur, be sure that the derailleur hanger is straight (your shop has an alignment tool, if not, change the shop).

I do ride quality components, this is important. I'm sure the above cannot be achieved using some entry level shifting system.

As for the strange behavior. Did you properly connect everything, no loose wires, bad connectors? Especially on the battery?

 

[chibi-sphere]

Thanks nioko. My bike has a shimano 105 derailleur. I'm getting a sora pod shifter to replace the brake/shifters.
I don't know if everything was properly connected since it was the shop's test bike.