Its open, Lyen controller. Advice needed

[dimpirate]

So I just wanted to extend some wires by soldering them together, existing 12 gauge for power and phase, and the smaller 23gauge for the hall wires. I ended up opening controller (not planned) and what do you know it doesn't seem to hard to just replace all the wires instead of extending and adding a weak point in system.

So if I'm already inside I'm gonna change my power and my phase wires to 10 gauge, I should still be able to use 30amp Anderson's right?
I'm using this 12 fet Lyen with 18S4P 66V nominal, and hs3540 hub motor.
What other changes would you guys recommend while this things open?
Controller is set to 45 amps I was going to use at 65 amps with 12 gauge wires, how much more amps can I push thru with 10gauge wires?
(not changing wires from motor, there probobally 12 gauge)

Any help much appreciated!!!

 

[dimpirate]

Just pulled out 23 gauge wires I want to swap out, no problem! So my 12 gauge phase wire is giving me some trouble coming out don't want to force it or solder to much of. Seems like its not warm enough, any tips? Don't want to fu-k up bottom of board.....

 

[dnmun]

i think you can stick with the 12G for the phase wires if the surge to 65A is brief enuff. this is where i would expect 12G to begin to get warm, but not hot enuff to melt insulation, maybe hardly warm enuff to notice.

i think the biggest risk is from damaging the traces on the pcb from desoldering the old wire and adding the new wire. it takes a lot of skill to keep from burning the trace off the board with the soldering iron.

if you are having trouble because you don't have a solder sucker or rework station and only a 30W iron, maybe stop while you are ahead.

 

[dimpirate]

i think you can stick with the 12G for the phase wires if the surge to 65A is brief enuff. this is where i would expect 12G to begin to get warm, but not hot enuff to melt insulation, maybe hardly warm enuff to notice.

i think the biggest risk is from damaging the traces on the pcb from desoldering the old wire and adding the new wire. it takes a lot of skill to keep from burning the trace off the board with the soldering iron.

if you are having trouble because you don't have a solder sucker or rework station and only a 30W iron, maybe stop while you are ahead.

Hahaha. Yea I'm ahead I'm stopping!!! Solder iron isn't hot enough and no I don't have any experience.
Extensions are added to phase wires. I think I did a pretty good job soldering them together.....
Still worries me having extensions, how much weaker is link, or does soldering the wires together, make them stronger or just as strong if done correctly? ( done correctly, hope I did good enough I think so.... )

 

[dnmun]

yes, the solder is a better conductor than the wire almost. but soldered connections can lead to metal fatigue of the wire where it enters the solder joint. the solder makes the wire stiff in the solder and where it exits the solder the flexing is enuff to cause metal fatigue. jeremy talked about this in the reliability of connections on airplanes. he knew that stuff really well.

if you are determined to increase conductivity of the phase wires, since the hole in the pcb is too small for the 10G then you could strip back the end of the 12G where it goes into the pcb and solder another 12G wire in parallel from just above the pcb. that would give you the equivalent of 10G without the risk of damage.

but two 12G wires will take more than 30W to melt solder, and make sure you are using the 60/40 and not the antimony solder required by law now. it takes a huge amount of heat, lead solder flows at a lower temp.

maybe others who have done this can offer help, but i suspect you can get enuff power from just the 12G wires, as long as it is not 65A continuous. but the fets won't last long at that rate either i expect. lotta heat.

or go to the 10G outside the controller housing for simplicity.

 

[dimpirate]

I just soldered with an old radio shack kit that was at my moms house for years, I'm pretty sure it's a 30w one, I used the solder in the kit.... Wires are together and heat shrinked, do u think I should do them again with more heat....different solder?

 

[dnmun]

nope, old solder is 60/40. so you should be good to go.

 

[dimpirate]

Thanks for the help dmnum!!! Don't think I'll be going 65amps continuous anytime soon so I believe I'm good for now.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

You don't have the proper iron to replace the 12 gauge with 10. You need a fair amount of heat, and some minor experience. It sounds like your best bet is to extend the wires outside the controller.

A decent solder station is damn near required for anything beyond tiny wires. Those little plug in irons are pathetic and more often than not lead to unreliable cold joints or a disaster.

If you plan on ever really soldering, something like a Hakko 936 or FX 888 is required.

 

[biohazardman]

So I just wanted to extend some wires by soldering them together, existing 12 gauge for power and phase, and the smaller 23gauge for the hall wires. I ended up opening controller (not planned) and what do you know it doesn't seem to hard to just replace all the wires instead of extending and adding a weak point in system.

So if I'm already inside I'm gonna change my power and my phase wires to 10 gauge, I should still be able to use 30amp Anderson's right?
I'm using this 12 fet Lyen with 18S4P 66V nominal, and hs3540 hub motor.
What other changes would you guys recommend while this things open?
Controller is set to 45 amps I was going to use at 65 amps with 12 gauge wires, how much more amps can I push thru with 10gauge wires?
(not changing wires from motor, there probobally 12 gauge)

Any help much appreciated!!!

You will want the 45A Andersons or 3.5mm or better barrel connectors for the phase and motor connectors. The 30A are way to light for most motor or phase wires they can heat and cause problems. I only use the 30A for charging and that's only 12A so things are OK. Always over spec stuff so when you really need it it won't fail you.

 

[NeilP]

Now, don't quote me on this, but I am certain that I did read on the forum here that, soldering a joint is higher resistance than just the wire itself, so you may be introducing more resistance in the wire. As for the magnitude, well no idea, maybe the extra resistance of the joint will be compensated for my the reduced resistance of the thicker gauge wire..

But all is not lost. I believe the answer is to crimp the joint first. So find one of those in line crimp connetors..or even a strip of thin copper or brass. Crimp the wires together first to get a good metal to metal contact and mechanically secure joint. then solder to prevent corrosion..and then heat shrink.

I did hear of "Icecube" using stripped down 4mm bullet connectors as terminators to go in the board. 8 or 10 gauge wire is too thick to go in the holes on the board, but a 4mm bullet, with the tip cut off and the 'spinning bullet bit' removed, leaves a pin of the correct size to fit the holes on the board. So cut down a bullet, crimp to the thicker cable then solder that in..if you get a bigger iron

 

[amberwolf]

If you plan on ever really soldering, something like a Hakko 936 or FX 888 is required.

Not necessarily. I use a cheap Weller 80W chisel-tip iron that was only a few bucks at a hardware store going-out-of-business sale. It warms up really fast and works quite well on even 10G connections, either on PCBs or on connectors on wires or interwoven-lap-soldering wires. . Might work on larger stuff but I haven't tried yet. Also works well at desoldering dead FETs by placing on all three leads simultaneously (chisel is just wide enough for this).

 

[dnmun]

i just realized you also thought you should replace the hall sensor wires with larger.

that is not needed. the hall sensor wires carry tiny amounts of current. the small wires are good enuff for that.

i shoulda paid more attention reading the first time and warned you about removing them too. sorry.

also the small red wire for circuit current is big enuff too since the circuit current is only about 65mA.

the large red wires for power could be doubled up too if you wanna, but i think 12G would be ok there too.

 

[NeilP]

In fact, if you are upgrading the phase wires all the way through the axle in to the hub, you may need to make the hall wires smaller

 

[dimpirate]

I'm just swapping short wires with long ones for hall same gauge size though

Thanks!!!

 

[dnmun]

the hall sensor wires are already the smallest diameter since it is all insulation anyway. if you upgrade the phase wires, the hall wires will fit in the spaces between the close packed phase wires. they have to be all lined up tight packed before you push them in, and stay that way when you push the new phase wires through because if the hall wires get on the outside of the phase wires while pushing through, it will tear the insulation off the hall wires on the inside of the axle where there are sharp rough edges. been there, done that.