Kinetic Max 100-MPG Turbo-Diesel

spinningmagnets

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http://www.kineticvehicles.com/MAX10.html

First of all, it doesn't accelerate very fast, it only seats two, there is no air-conditioning, it doesn't pass any of the new "clean diesel" regulations, no air-bags, and its not a convertible...it simply doesn't have any kind of top.

Setting that aside, it will attain highway speeds, and the simple diesel it uses will run fine on old fry-oil. When it was first built, it used a Lotus-7 replica kit-body and got 80-MPH, and now with a more aero replica of a late 1950's Lola Mk-1, it gets 100-MPG.

The engine is a tiny Kubota-D1105 1100cc 3-cylinder turbo-diesel from a small tractor.

images


LaloIndexPage.jpg
 
diesel power always piqued my interest. i find it pretty amazing that theyre able to get that kind of MPG out of one. i wonder what engine theyre using. i picked up that it was a turbo diesel, but im curious to what it is or where it came from. :?:
 
Here's the spec sheet:
http://kubotaengine.com/products/bg/d1105_e3bg.html

Here are pics of the engine (Google image):
http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1088&bih=638&q=kubota+d1105&oq=kubota+d1105&gs_l=img.12..0j0i24l9.1701.1701.0.4056.1.1.0.0.0.0.280.280.2-1.1.0...0.0...1ac.C5ioXJnw2eM

Here's a Geo Metro that had a Kubota adapted into it:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ta-diesel-engine-conversion-driving-5571.html

For those who are interested, but they want just a little more power (at the loss of a few MPG) here the same engine in the series, but at 1.5L, and with 4 cylinders. They have an entire spread of engines, but the 1.5L looks like their smallest 4-cyl turbo-diesel.

I have read in the past about a European 4-cyl turbo-diesel that bolts right up to Chrysler products (like their Caravan), due to the association a while back of Daimler and Chrysler.

Also, the Dodge in-line 6-cyl turbo-diesel 5.9 pick-up truck engine is pretty famous. They also make a 4-cyl 3.9 version using the same parts and interface. It can be found on skid-steer loaders (Bobcats?), and other industrian equipment, once you know what you're looking for. The motor mounts and transmission interface are the same as the bigger 5.9L, so they will drop right into the Dodge mid-sized Durango/Dakota. The Durango/Dakota uses a V6 as a base engine because the inline-6 is too long.
 
I'll be damned.... they had round coffee table plans in '82. :shock:


urba_centurion_1982_web2.jpg


" The car was supposed to be capable of getting 128 mpg when driven at 35 mph; our real-world experience was 40 mpg during normal operation. Although the car looks fast, it has a top speed of only 55 mph, and the windows open only a small amount, making ventilation and cooling totally inadequate for everyday use."

http://lanemotormuseum.org/urba-centurion-1982
 
I'll bet the owner of Kinetic Max is having a ball! There is nothing like driving your own creation and achieving a goal. Kudos to Max.

Last I read, Kinetic Max had turbo charged the Kubota triple 1100cc - I beleive the one they started out with. The story / history can be viewed here and is a very good read. Pics of pretty much everything.

The Centurion in the Lane motor museum has somehow missed the mark big time. There are body variations from the original that may attribute to the stated mpg figures and who knows if the engine is operating as well as it should. The plans (blueprints) for building the Centurion are pretty specific and at Lane's published 40 mpg figure, I'd be really looking over everything and anything that could rob efficiency. When trying to break 100 mpg with something like say a car, there's a ton of little details that cannot be overlooked. I went through this when converting the Changzuki (Suzuki 550GS) to diesel back in 2005 or so and a couple of other projects.

~CrazyJerry
 
What is that image in your avatar jerry?

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BATFINK said:
What is that image in your avatar jerry?

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Hi BATFINK,
It is the Go-One3 Aurora project with what I call the "SuperBee" option (48v Lithium / Striping / Wheel Discs / LED Lighting / Cruise / Mp3 / Regen / 4 Cam DVR ). If you're bored there is a bit more info here:
http://diesel-bike.com/Aurora/aurora.html
Have a great day!
~CrazyJerry
 
Thanks Jerry, that is an awesome machine, well done, are you doing some real world commuting and things with it?

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BATFINK said:
Thanks Jerry, that is an awesome machine, well done, are you doing some real world commuting and things with it?

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Thanks BATFINK. I have been all over the place with the velomobile. It has really worked out well. I've branched out with the lithium and the exact same packs will swap into my lawnmower! This summer has been great weather-wise but I'm knee deep into yet another project that has taken away from velo-time (An Urba Centurion). The project is somewhat inline with Kinetic Max and the goal is to top the 115 mpg average set by the Changzuki (With two separate runs I'm close and have logged 106 and 110 mpg respectively. 30% city / 70% rural roads). This will also give me something to do while battery technology progresses.
CrazyJerry
 
CrazyJerry said:
I'm knee deep into yet another project that has taken away from velo-time (An Urba Centurion).
You *are* crazy... crazy brilliant maybe.

I checked out the project pages... That thing is tiny! Of course, it only can help the Cd.

I assume the title and tags are legit, for your road testing... so lights & safety gear & emissions pass NY regs... If I am mistaken, we will say no more on that subject.

If you are getting >100mpg, the Lane rig must have a stuck caliper or handbrake! :lol:

Kudos on an impressive project. I look forward seeing to the finished machine.
 
Only spotted this thread now. Great find.

It's worth bearing in mind that you can purchase production cars like the Volkswagen Lupo 3L that consume three litres of diesel per 100 km. And they can hold more than two people - plus they only weigh around 800kg.

It's an old car too.

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/printer_319.shtml

Volkswagen are putting their 1l hybrid car into limited production next year too and that two-seater promises to blow every single fossil-fuel car out of the water in terms of fuel economy. One litre per 100km is probably as close to efficient as combustion cars will get. I'd imagine it won't be long though before we start seeing electric cars that can consume 50 to 100 watt/hours per kilometre.

I found this response by Jack McCornack to objections to home-made cars rather interesting and succinct.

Richard, I agree with many of your observations, but only halfway agree with your conclusions. For example, what's so great about an “actual modern day vehicle”? And what's so bad about a “high school experiment”? I think our differences come from our backgrounds.

I was a high school shop teacher for four years and MAX is designed so it can be built by high school students and other amateur car builders. As I wrote in my first MAX article, “I think any of the big automakers could win the Auto X Prize if they got serious about it,” but it looks like the West Philly Hybrid X Team (high school students) is way ahead of them. The days of inspired high school students (and other amateur experimenters) are not over yet.

Does MAX meet government regulations? You bet! Lucky for us, the government regulations for a car you build yourself are not as involved as the regulations for production cars. MAX is already cleaner than the majority of diesel passenger cars on America's roads today ... most of those are ‘70s and ‘80s cars from Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz and they wouldn't meet 2010 production car emissions regulations either. Mandated air bags? They're not mandated on home-built cars, and they wouldn't be mandated on production cars either if everybody wore five point racing harnesses like those in MAX.

I'd say MAX gets a nod on all safety issues except side impact protection, and we're working on that as part of the streamlined body project. No bumper? It has a fiberglass nose that's cheaper than any bumper of any 2010 car in America, and that's only the first of MAX's “crumple zones.”

You asked what would happen when a pickup truck loses its brakes and rear ends MAX. Well, I doubt it will be a home-built pickup truck, because homebuilders tend to take their maintenance pretty seriously. So far, I've only been rear-ended once and it was by a factory-built passenger car. The driver swore she was only going 30 mph. I was going zero and was stopped behind a van, which was stopped for pedestrians. The fuel tank didn't rupture because (even though the tank is visible) it is protected by a tubular steel structure.

I wouldn't call MAX a modern day vehicle, it's more like a newly built 50-year-old vehicle. I don't think MAX is dangerously slow, I think it's just slow. I don't think any driver behind me has had to touch the brakes, much less be endangered, but I'll admit I wait for big gaps between cars before I pull out in traffic. This sort of conversation usually ends with the other guy, smiling smugly, saying, ‘Well, maybe it's not dangerous for you, but it'd be dangerous the way I drive.’

Then I usually say don’t bother to apply for a job at UPS because their vans are even slower than MAX. And MAX has superb stability, rollover resistance, and braking capability (not just good, but superb) without needing stability control, traction control or antilock brakes to make up for design deficiencies.

I think you're right about what people want in a car, but that's most people, not all people. If 99.9 percent of the U.S. population doesn't want a MAX, that still leaves about 300,000 people who might. Divide that by 1,000 for the people who don't have the money and/or space for another car, the people who don't have the self confidence to tackle this big of a project, and the people who can't convert “want” to “do” unless they have somebody (a car salesman, perhaps?) egging them on. That leaves a 300 person niche market — not enough to attract a major manufacturer, but enough to keep Kinetic Vehicles busy making parts for them. I don't think MAX is going to be a one-off vehicle, we have beta testers making MAX variants right now (one Kubota powered, two electrics, and one with a Geo Metro engine) and depending on their feedback, MAX plans may soon be available for general distribution.

I doubt MAX has Detroit quaking in its boots. MAX might, however, help show some manufacturer (though maybe not a manufacturer in Detroit) that there is indeed a market for a small, efficient, no-frills automobile, conceived that way from the get-go — perhaps a small market, but a market worth serving.


Read more: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Energy-Matters/MAX-Update-No-44-Responses-to-Sharp-Criticisms.aspx#ixzz25Ypk5ebn

Also being burgled one month and having specifically-work-related laptops stolen and the following month having your email account hacked and messages deleted was very bizarre.
 
TylerDurden said:
CrazyJerry said:
.....
I checked out the project pages... That thing is tiny! Of course, it only can help the Cd.

I assume the title and tags are legit, for your road testing... so lights & safety gear & emissions pass NY regs... If I am mistaken, we will say no more on that subject.

If you are getting >100mpg, the Lane rig must have a stuck caliper or handbrake! :lol:

Kudos on an impressive project. I look forward seeing to the finished machine.

-- Yes it is bit on the smaller side. Where I work, there is a piece of colored tape 41 inches on the wall... When people realize this is the roof height they look in disbelief - it seems almost absurd!
---Tags, lights, etc? What? Oh great so I now I have even more things to do. Kidding aside I'm within all boundaries...
----My first thought on the Lane Centurion was dragging calipers. Mine were dragging also and when you only have a very limited amount of power to work with, things better glide. The Lane model also has some big Mickey Mouse ears on the doors, the rear is also a bit different. I'd like to see it in person - especially the underneath.
The last bit of sectioning and repair I did on this one brought the roof height down and layed the windshield back a scad more too. Both the original Centurion and the Lane example lack the built in (side) ground effects this one has and that may also make a difference in the end. The Kubota behaves very differently depending on the muffler used. I have tried 3 before finding one that didn't kill upper rpm. Thanks for your thumbs-up - this has a long, long way to go yet. Will update...
~CrazyJerry
 
TylerDurden said:
I'll be damned.... they had round coffee table plans in '82. :shock:

http://lanemotormuseum.org/urba-centurion-1982

Dauntless said:
That thing was round as by determined by a committee.

Hope this tractor dealie goes better.

So's just tas keeps the status of such projects in the minds o' dah readas, here's a picture of whats cames of the legendary motorbeast.

Youse can even reads of teh sale if you like, as long as Craigslist leaves it up.

I must admit, I kind of hate to see it this way. They rescued one of Big Daddy Ed Roth's cars from the front lawn of a brothel in Mexico, to jokes of the driver went in there one night and was never seen again. Not sure how the rescuer came across it.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/3518107113.html
 

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Any body seen / heard anymore of the XR3 project ?
Kubota diesel hybrid design. 200mpg ?
http://www.fastcompany.com/1292283/200-mpg-xr3-trike-ready-production-its-what-aptera-shouldve-been
http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm
DSC02417B-web.jpg

xr3_master-asmy-tv1-b.jpg
 
Thanks for posting, this is now my new favorite project for a non-bike vehicle. I have reservations about the 200-MPG claim. I'm sure it's based on some electric-only propulsion on the driving loop. The Kubota is somewhat weak, but that's to be expected when someone is striving for 100-MPG+.

The electric portion is most valuable (IMHO) for acceleration, and the smallish battery pack can be recharged during the majority of cruise time (10:1 ratio between accelerate/recharge?). I wish them luck.
 
Dauntless said:
Sure does seem high tech for a home build. Just wonder if there's some better option than that Kubota. Not sure how California smog laws would treat it.

Not all countiess require a smog certificate. Some counties only require it if registered in certain zip codes.

Does my vehicle qualify for a smog exemption?

Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is:
Hybrid
Gasoline powered 1975 year model or older
Diesel powered 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs
Electric
Natural gas powered with a GVWR rating of more than 14,000 lbs.
Motorcycle
Trailer

Well, as a hybrid AND as a motorcycle, we start to say no problem. BUT is the Kubota a CARB admitted engine? If you're familiar with "Red Tag" and "Green Tag" for offroad engines, there are some that aren't allowed in the state. If you know the "China Girl" moped engine kit, that cannot be sold in California, people run around with those on unregistered mopeds.

There also used to be something about below a certain weight, maybe 1,500 pounds. That was a big deal to a lot of home builders. A kitcar doesn't have the same 6 year waiver that a factory new car does.

But all that pales before the importance of bureacracy. They have no problem with putting you through hell. That Kubota could be the cleanest thing, but they don't have a report on it, there's never been a vote, laws have not been codified. They were just discussing 'The Shocker' in another thread.
 
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