LightningRods mid drive kit

Hey this is cool there are all the Giant DH bikes getting in on the action. I have just sold my mid drive frame and hub conversion to Luc in Montreal so I am watching this LR thread with great interest as it may be a good idea to put the LR kit on my Giant DH as well.

I have noticed Kit #2 has arrived in North Van which is my old neighbourhood and it will be good to see his rig up and running when it is in action. I have the Kiwi drop out adaptors and a 10t Mac in the rear wheel of my giant now but this LR kit looks too good to not want one to replace my existing drive train. It will be great to see the videos roll in as folks get there conversions installed. Its a good thing that way back when I was first building my Giant up I did not hack saw my DH frame up for the home made torque adapters. THANK YOU KIWI for the pro adaptors. Now I can just take them off and slap back on the stock wheel set that came with my bike if I go mid drive. By the way, not to detract from this thread but I want to mention the KIWI drop out adaptors he has made for the Giant DH have been out standing.

This will most likely be a fall - winter conversion for me as the Giant is still working awesome for now as a hubby.

So I hope to join the ranks here when I get the cash. Looking forward to the journey.
 
The Giant DH seems to be an ideal candidate for both big block and small block versions of this drive. The two approaches are very different and both have their advantages. I'd love to have two DH Comps to run side by side. One with the small block running through the gears and the other a high volt, high amp 'fixie' running to one gear. My guess is that the small block with multiple gears would be more efficient and more enjoyable for tight maneuvering and slow work, and the big block fixie would be a riot at speed, ripping big speedway slides.

We'll look forward to having you on board, Wayne.
 
By saying 1:2 you mean my 39t and 20t sprockerts right ? At first i thought you meant the alfine itself was limiting my speed.
 
@LR..any possibilities in the near future for belt conversion with 60V chain reduction??
I seen your diagram in a previous post
 
ebike11 said:
@LR..any possibilities in the near future for belt conversion with 60V chain reduction??
I seen your diagram in a previous post
Click to expand...

Yes I will be making a 25mm GT belt conversion for the GNG chain drives in the near future. I finally figured out how to do it.
 
0.53, 0.64, 0.75, 0.85, 1, 1.22, 1.42 and 1.62
Click to expand...
So...if you have a 52T driving a 13T (or 48T/12T), and the Alfine is in 5th gear, that would be 4:1

The lowest four gears are under-drive, 5th gear is direct drive, and the top three are "overdrive". I really like IGH's, but exercise caution with the throttle when you apply high power...
 
so, if i take what L-R said earlier, and count the fact that instead of alfine 8 (being used in the article) i'm using alfine 11 , but still using 50T (not 52, 50 is the largest thorn chainring) i CAN reach 56 mph at 6-7 gear ? right?

L-R once sent me sheldone's gear calculator http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

so to summerize, according that calculator if i use 39T front chainring, and input 120 rpm and the crank set i would get

Low - - - - - - - - - High
20,27,30,34,39,45,51,58,66

now if we use L-R fastest sprocket configuration at 48v (181rpm) subtract 20% for LOADED, and get 144 rpm so we add that to the numbers as though we were using 144 rpm at the crankset

Low - - - - - - - - - High
24,31,35,40,46,52,60,67,77

now if i place a 50t sprocket , the calculator would give me (at 120rpm)

Low - - - - - - - - - High
20,27,30,34,39,45,51,58,66,74,85

once again adding 144 rpm would give

Low - - - - - - - - - High
24,31,35,40,46,52,60,67,77,87,99

and just for funzies if i were to obtain a 72 volt pack that would give me 217 rpm LOADED a config with 50T chainring would yield

Low - - - - - - - - - High
30,3944,50,57,65,74,84,95,108,123

am i right, will i get around 77 kph max speed at load with 39T chainring ? or is it sci-fi? cause i REALLY don't wanna start investing in 72v pack.
 
spinningmagnets said:
0.53, 0.64, 0.75, 0.85, 1, 1.22, 1.42 and 1.62
Click to expand...
So...if you have a 52T driving a 13T (or 48T/12T), and the Alfine is in 5th gear, that would be 4:1

The lowest four gears are under-drive, 5th gear is direct drive, and the top three are "overdrive". I really like IGH's, but exercise caution with the throttle when you apply high power...
Click to expand...

48T/12T with a 1.62 internal overdrive would be 1:6.48 overdrive. If the kit would pull full revs (it won't on a conventional bike) your top speed in 8th gear would be 49 mph @ 48V.

In order to calculate your final drive gearing, Emaayan, divide your small external sprocket's tooth count into the large BB driver. Then multiply by the Alfine's internal ratios. With your 39/12 (1:3.25) external sprockets here are your actual final drive ratios:

1st (low) 1.72
2nd 2.08
3rd 2.44
4th 2.76
5th 3.23 (direct drive)
6th 3.96
7th 4.61
8th 5.26

Your speed range is from 16 mph @ 48V in 1st gear up to 49 mph (theoretical) in 8th gear. You might be able to hit 49 mph with my kit if you were running 40 amps.

If you find that low gear is not low enough you can lower your external ratio (currently 39/12) and still have the same actual top speed. I'd go with a larger tooth count at the rear to help the rear sprocket handle the extra torque load of the motor.
 
49 MPH or KPH? just to make sure cause we are switching from units here, that would mean it's 77 kph theoretical, and more on the 11th, and if by theoretical you mean no load, 82 kph no load gives me 53 kph at load. that would mean that i'll probably get the same performance i have now without getting a new pack, but getting (i assume) more range, as the kit would be more efficient, that's the most important priority for me. if i place a 50T chainring, that would mean more speed i assume.

how large tooth count in the rear sprocket cause it's 20 now and with alfine the max is 23 i believe. and that doesn't have a chain guard. don't think it would make much of a difference.
 
LightningRods said:
spinningmagnets said:
0.53, 0.64, 0.75, 0.85, 1, 1.22, 1.42 and 1.62
Click to expand...
So...if you have a 52T driving a 13T (or 48T/12T), and the Alfine is in 5th gear, that would be 4:1

The lowest four gears are under-drive, 5th gear is direct drive, and the top three are "overdrive". I really like IGH's, but exercise caution with the throttle when you apply high power...
Click to expand...

48T/12T with a 1.62 internal overdrive would be 1:6.48 overdrive. If the kit would pull full revs (it won't on a conventional bike) your top speed in 8th gear would be 49 mph @ 48V.

In order to calculate your final drive gearing, Emaayan, divide your small external sprocket's tooth count into the large BB driver. Then multiply by the Alfine's internal ratios. With your 39/12 (1:3.25) external sprockets here are your actual final drive ratios:

1st (low) 1.72
2nd 2.08
3rd 2.44
4th 2.76
5th 3.23 (direct drive)
6th 3.96
7th 4.61
8th 5.26

Your speed range is from 16 mph @ 48V in 1st gear up to 49 mph (theoretical) in 8th gear. You might be able to hit 49 mph with my kit if you were running 40 amps.

If you find that low gear is not low enough you can lower your external ratio (currently 39/12) and still have the same actual top speed. I'd go with a larger tooth count at the rear to help the rear sprocket handle the extra torque load of the motor.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that this is all nice theoretical numbers. But the reality is when you start hitting 50-55 kmh, wind resistance and other resistances will make that chain skip on anything smaller than 14-15t rear sprocket. For example, my gearing ratio's of my setup at the voltages I run, give me a theoritical top speed of 92 kmh no load, the reality of it is no matter how much power I throw at it, I cannot exceed 65 kmh because that is the smallest rear sprocket that doesn't slip at those levels of resistance. My limitation is that I cannot fit anything larger than a 44T on my front chainring due to the swing arm configuration of my Kona. That it is why it is recommended to fit the largest front chainring you can manage. This enables you to use larger rear sprockets while maintaining your ratio's.

And to push this kit at 60 kmh plus, the power levels needed are enough to cause chain skips on the rear sprocket. I'd be worried on how much power and abuse those planetary gears used in these internal hub can handle. And they all boast how quiet they are, I assume they are all plastic or composite gears....

Wishes
 
the smallest rear sprocket for the alfine is 18T, and replacing one of those, involves messing with what is commonly known as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmTRVgDjO8 "snap ring of doom" seriously there's no way i can ever fit that on my own. it's nightmare.
 
You're absolutely right, Wishes. Completely theoretical as far as top speed goes.

I'm using mph because I'm most familiar with doing gearing/speed calculations in mph. Please convert to km/hr for the rest of the world.

Emaayan, I don't think that you can predict precisely how much the load of you and the bike will bog down the motor without using much more sophisticated calculations than you are. The load/no load speed @ 48V will be very different running 40 amps than it is running 20 amps. Even the size and rolling resistance of your tires will change that number. I believe that you'll find my motor to be more powerful at 48V than your Ecospeed motor and capable of pulling higher speed with the same gearing.

There is nothing to do but try it. Your kit will be going out to you very soon. This week if I have my way.
 
emaayan said:
the smallest rear sprocket for the alfine is 18T, and replacing one of those, involves messing with what is commonly known as "snap ring of doom" seriously there's no way i can ever fit that on my own. it's nightmare.
Click to expand...

Try running your gearing as is. If you want lower gearing it may be time for a bicycle mechanic. Take your kit off of the bike first so they don't narc you out. I'd hate to see the Mossad come after you. :wink:

I'm off to the shop. Kits to build.
 
LightningRods said:
emaayan said:
the smallest rear sprocket for the alfine is 18T, and replacing one of those, involves messing with what is commonly known as "snap ring of doom" seriously there's no way i can ever fit that on my own. it's nightmare.
Click to expand...

Try running your gearing as is. If you want lower gearing it may be time for a bicycle mechanic. Take your kit off of the bike first so they don't narc you out. I'd hate to see the Mossad come after you. :wink:

I'm off to the shop. Kits to build.
Click to expand...

oh don't worry, they won't, they simply don't accept it, 99% of LBS see my bike ,and just go "no.." it's enough they can't get it up on a pedestal because of the weight, not to mention all the extra hardware. plus they make you sign a contract that they are not responsible in the event of a raid and your kit get confiscated.
curious thing i found out, i was told that if you actually bought an e-bike in the country from a local shop and show an invoice , and they try to take it away, you can sue the authorities , because they weren't there to enforce the law on the shop that sold you that in the first place. since the ruling majority of e-bikes in my country are actually sold that way, they are gonna have a hell of a time trying to take that away from anyone in the streets. i ,on the other hand am excluded from that bunch :) so they CAN take it away for me. but, it would make sense since the likes of me are a minority , they would go after the shops first. so far it would seem they've decided no to decide, even though the recommendation was to have licence and insurance EVEN for pedalecs. they claim they'll view everything beyond that as a 125cc bike.

but it's good that i know about the speed configuration regarding the sprocket, i'll want to order the extreme setting just in case. i simply wanna cover all the possible options.
 
[\quote] Keep in mind that this is all nice theoretical numbers. But the reality is when you start hitting 50-55 kmh, wind resistance and other resistances will make that chain skip on anything smaller than 14-15t rear sprocket. For example, my gearing ratio's of my setup at the voltages I run, give me a theoritical top speed of 92 kmh no load, the reality of it is no matter how much power I throw at it, I cannot exceed 65 kmh because that is the smallest rear sprocket that doesn't slip at those levels of resistance. My limitation is that I cannot fit anything larger than a 44T on my front chainring due to the swing arm configuration of my Kona. That it is why it is recommended to fit the largest front chainring you can manage. This enables you to use larger rear sprockets while maintaining your ratio's.

And to push this kit at 60 kmh plus, the power levels needed are enough to cause chain skips on the rear sprocket. I'd be worried on how much power and abuse those planetary gears used in these internal hub can handle. And they all boast how quiet they are, I assume they are all plastic or composite gears....

Wishes [/quote]

Hi, I have a Kona stinky 2008 so I assume that the stock 32/48T chainring will not fit because of the swingarm... Would it be possible to replace it by a 32/44T on my kit? Also, my question is for wishes, do I have a limitation on the size of the 219 driven sprocket because of the swingarm configuration or I could go up to 93 T with the biggest that LR can provide? Thanks
 
Just to keep you guys looped in. This was my e-mail exchange with the laser shop today. This only affects the new stretch brackets and additional big block kits. Other kits still in production and moving ahead.

*******************************
Good Morning JP-

Three weeks today. How are my parts coming along? My customers have a big vat of hot tar and bags of feathers waiting for me.

Thanks,
Mike

*******************************
Mike,
Eesh, put the shields up, our lasers have been down since last Wednesday. They got 1 working Saturday and we have parts coming in for the other one this morning. I'm going into a meeting with all the management at lunch to discuss the schedule we advise our customers of. I think it's going to be another couple days Mike.
JP
 
Atrapitis.gif
 
I just threw out the "take 20% off for loaded" because nobody is annoyed when a kit is a lttle faster than they calculated. If you are traveling around 40-MPH (64-kph), I would not be surprised to hear of a 20% drop in UN-loaded speed due to wind resistance of a non-lycra/non-fairing E-bike (plus pushing the weight of bike + rider).

Somewhere around mid speeds of 25-MPH (40-kph), I would imagine it's more likely to have nearer to 10% drop in UN-loaded speeds, due to pulling a load and wind resistance. At anything below 10-MPH (16-kph) I suspect there would be only a very small difference in speed, whether loaded or unloaded (wind resistance negligible?).
 
well i simply assumed that if my systems gets to 82 kph (according to CA when wheel is up in the air) and i'm actually at 53 kph on the field, then i should expect a 35% drop and not 20.
 
teslanv said:
http://www.lcnw.com/
Click to expand...

I just called them and talked to a sales rep. They're saying 4-5 days lead time instead of 3 weeks plus. I'm going to start splitting my orders. Half local and half shipped to WA state. We'll see how things work out for time, quality and cost.

I am sick of being held up by delays from this local cutter. When your suppliers are unreliable, you're unreliable.

Thanks for the referral, Teslanv!
 
LightningRods said:
Just to keep you guys looped in. This was my e-mail exchange with the laser shop today. This only affects the new stretch brackets and additional big block kits. Other kits still in production and moving ahead.

*******************************
Good Morning JP-

Three weeks today. How are my parts coming along? My customers have a big vat of hot tar and bags of feathers waiting for me.

Thanks,
Mike

*******************************
Mike,
Eesh, put the shields up, our lasers have been down since last Wednesday. They got 1 working Saturday and we have parts coming in for the other one this morning. I'm going into a meeting with all the management at lunch to discuss the schedule we advise our customers of. I think it's going to be another couple days Mike.
JP
Click to expand...

call me crazy but, when a laser shop has MEETINGS and MANAGEMENT along with DISCUSS terms, that smells cumbersome to me.

plus they were for almost a week, and didn't bother some mass mailing their customers for the hold up????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

U
Lightning Rods Big block belt mid drive / No longer for sale
Replies
1
Views
654
Universalus
U
EVGator
EEB Mid Drive Bike - Complete or Part out
Replies
3
Views
1,073
skeetab5780
skeetab5780
R
    • Like
L-Faster / Dome Motor 450W Mid-Drive Build
2
Replies
25
Views
3,281
DanGT86
DanGT86
chuyskywalker
Kona Stinky Restore
2
Replies
29
Views
2,494
calab
C
justin_le
Upcoming Major Changes and Updates to the ES Site
Replies
11
Views
1,284
Two4Seven SuprDan
Two4Seven SuprDan
Back
Top