Loaded Tesseract Carbon Single VESC 6355 10S4P
- Thread starter whitepony
- Start date
hey, don't you think adding a BMS would make the deck fully plug and play ? I am just trying to list the advantages and drawback of having a BMS but on my upcoming 12S4P li ion build that could be a interesting move.
do you have any link for a 12S BMS that I could use on my setup
thanks!!!
do you have any link for a 12S BMS that I could use on my setup
thanks!!!
whitepony
10 kW
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
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- 663
I feel a bms is a waste of space. both of my batteries have taken a beating and none of them show ANY drift - undervolt protection by vesc, overvolt protection by cheap charger that simply has no functionality but stopping at a fixed voltage, in my case 41V = 4.1V/cell. my trust isnt without limits though, I only charge my board when Im in the house ... you never know. :lol:
but seriously, you can save a lot of space by running only a battery & vesc with an XT90-s loop key. really love the simplest setup of my tesseract (wish I had some antispark thing though - I always cringe when I hear the *ZZZAP* when I close the loop with my 4mm bullet connector loop-key.
few months ago ordered 2 10S BMS with 50A from aliexpress.com for 50€! they are well made and arrived after about 4 weeks directly from china. so if you are patient you'll find basically everything there for really low prices.
but seriously, you can save a lot of space by running only a battery & vesc with an XT90-s loop key. really love the simplest setup of my tesseract (wish I had some antispark thing though - I always cringe when I hear the *ZZZAP* when I close the loop with my 4mm bullet connector loop-key.
few months ago ordered 2 10S BMS with 50A from aliexpress.com for 50€! they are well made and arrived after about 4 weeks directly from china. so if you are patient you'll find basically everything there for really low prices.
torqueboards
1 MW
@whitepony - Yeah, I agree... The BMS is huge and a downside.
yeah, thank you guys - I was more thinking of the BMS as a plug & play device to avoid opening the enclosure as I plan to make of like on my evolve deck. For the packs, I don't have a 12S charger anymore; I got a Hyperion DUO (7S max)... this is why I plan to make two 6S4P and put them in series to get the 12S4P
whitepony
10 kW
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
- Messages
- 663
randyc1 said:
yea, just measuring the voltage in the bullet connectors. dont see the point of a voltage meter in your board really. vesc will cut you off when the battery voltage drops below the limits, also it takes 3-4 tours to know your limits very well.
or did you mean measuring the balance status? for that I actually have to open the case and measure the 10 pairs of balance leads. not much fun, but I just do that every 1-2 months really after my past "no drift" experience on 2 DIY batteries.
whitepony said:randyc1 said:
yea, just measuring the voltage in the bullet connectors. dont see the point of a voltage meter in your board really. vesc will cut you off when the battery voltage drops below the limits, also it takes 3-4 tours to know your limits very well.
or did you mean measuring the balance status? for that I actually have to open the case and measure the 10 pairs of balance leads. not much fun, but I just do that every 1-2 months really after my past "no drift" experience on 2 DIY batteries.
Yes i meant the balance leads, do you just stick your voltmeter probes in the end of the jst connector?
whitepony said:after plundering my topspeed for trampa and tesseract, I finally also stole the 90mm abec 75A to replace my kegels. kegels are really awesome on smooth tar, but otherwise the flywheels are just MUCH smoother.
Something about that 75a ABEC11 compound. I switched from 78a 90mm Flywheels to 75a 76mm Flywheels this weekend and find the ride to be at least as smooth!
whitepony
10 kW
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- Feb 19, 2015
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spent the last 2 days sanding, routing, sanding and laminating ... after so many people had such impressive results with vaccum bagging I started gathering equipment a while ago and last week I finally got my pump which was the last part. pony ready to go!!
since the tesseract is my bread and butter board, on the one hand cause its simply superfun (although a tiny bit too stiff), on the other hand cause its one of the most stealthy boards I got (good against german police), I decided to start experimenting on it! --- kinda hurt a lot to dig into the deck though!
/pictureattack
anyway, I started with a lot of sanding ... boy, this cork finish is sturdy
I kept sanding until I removed the w-concave pretty much - ultimately I wanted to get a flat surface for the battery and that meant to get rid of the W and to dig into the board to remove the really strong rocker:
for the rocker, I lent a handheld router thingie and thought a while how move along ... finally I measured the rocker profile and digged the into the right areas for the right amount, basically in 1mm step functions:
then I took rough sanding paper and spend a while smoothing the steps. ruler check: heureka, its FLAT!!
didnt dare to dig in deeper, did a short flex check and with the cork gone and about 5mm off in the middle of the board, it is already slightly too flexy. fingers crossed for "getting it right" with 1 carbon layer & carbon enclosure.
ontop of the flat and slightly inserted enclosure, I wanted to hide the motor wires under the carbon layer. here you see the 3 cables, shrink tubed to a compact package:
router gogogo:
smoothing entry and exit of the channel:
jup, motor wires fit right in!
now comes the part where I really spent a while thinking about: how to laminate over the wire channel without destroying it, also I wanted a real channel and not permanently fixated wires laminated right in (which wouldve been visible probably ... also I didnt know how to handle the exit wires under the vaccum. anyway, I spend nearly a 1hour dog walk on that until I had a cool idea (for some it might be obvious or trivial, I felt pretty smart in that moment :lol: ): I had a polystyrol plate in my garage and I knew acetone can dissolve it - so I cut a polystyrol insert for the channel:
sanded it down to board level:
used some filler to make it really smooth an invisible after vaccum bagging one layer of carbon (I also closed all holes that I didnt need anymore)
and now I really REALLY hope that my plan works: laminate carbon, vaccum bag, when its cured, use acetone to dissolve the polystyrol insert to have a free channel for my wires. *fingerscrossed*
from here on I went standard laminating procedure. some slow curing resin on top of the clean board:
CARBON!!!! 3K 200g/m^2 air grade carbon sheets with air grade resin. after curing 24h there is a tempering @ 60°C for 15h step for heavily increased structural stability well beyond what typical carbon/resin combinations achieve. ill do the tempering in the sauna of my parents :lol:
now the vaccum bag magic - release layer with small holes for excess resin, a bleeder layer to soak up excess resin which at the same time is also the breather layer (so the vaccum pump can actually suck the air from all parts of the ba)g, finally a bag enclosing all of the board which I closed up with some tacky tape.
vacuum GOGOGO! a pretty exciting moment, since I wasnt sure if I had leaks or not:
i was very generous with the bleeder/breather layer - very thick material, folded for double thickness, under pump hose even quadruple thickness so that every part of the board will be reached by the pump:
my pump is quite small, but high quality and very silent. I got it running in the room next to me and I cant hear it at all! tomorrow around this time Ill hopefully have as beautiful results as okp!
more updates probably tomorrow! fingers crossed for the motor wire channel
since the tesseract is my bread and butter board, on the one hand cause its simply superfun (although a tiny bit too stiff), on the other hand cause its one of the most stealthy boards I got (good against german police), I decided to start experimenting on it! --- kinda hurt a lot to dig into the deck though!
/pictureattack
anyway, I started with a lot of sanding ... boy, this cork finish is sturdy
I kept sanding until I removed the w-concave pretty much - ultimately I wanted to get a flat surface for the battery and that meant to get rid of the W and to dig into the board to remove the really strong rocker:
for the rocker, I lent a handheld router thingie and thought a while how move along ... finally I measured the rocker profile and digged the into the right areas for the right amount, basically in 1mm step functions:
then I took rough sanding paper and spend a while smoothing the steps. ruler check: heureka, its FLAT!!
didnt dare to dig in deeper, did a short flex check and with the cork gone and about 5mm off in the middle of the board, it is already slightly too flexy. fingers crossed for "getting it right" with 1 carbon layer & carbon enclosure.
ontop of the flat and slightly inserted enclosure, I wanted to hide the motor wires under the carbon layer. here you see the 3 cables, shrink tubed to a compact package:
router gogogo:
smoothing entry and exit of the channel:
jup, motor wires fit right in!
now comes the part where I really spent a while thinking about: how to laminate over the wire channel without destroying it, also I wanted a real channel and not permanently fixated wires laminated right in (which wouldve been visible probably ... also I didnt know how to handle the exit wires under the vaccum. anyway, I spend nearly a 1hour dog walk on that until I had a cool idea (for some it might be obvious or trivial, I felt pretty smart in that moment :lol: ): I had a polystyrol plate in my garage and I knew acetone can dissolve it - so I cut a polystyrol insert for the channel:
sanded it down to board level:
used some filler to make it really smooth an invisible after vaccum bagging one layer of carbon (I also closed all holes that I didnt need anymore)
and now I really REALLY hope that my plan works: laminate carbon, vaccum bag, when its cured, use acetone to dissolve the polystyrol insert to have a free channel for my wires. *fingerscrossed*
from here on I went standard laminating procedure. some slow curing resin on top of the clean board:
CARBON!!!! 3K 200g/m^2 air grade carbon sheets with air grade resin. after curing 24h there is a tempering @ 60°C for 15h step for heavily increased structural stability well beyond what typical carbon/resin combinations achieve. ill do the tempering in the sauna of my parents :lol:
now the vaccum bag magic - release layer with small holes for excess resin, a bleeder layer to soak up excess resin which at the same time is also the breather layer (so the vaccum pump can actually suck the air from all parts of the ba)g, finally a bag enclosing all of the board which I closed up with some tacky tape.
vacuum GOGOGO! a pretty exciting moment, since I wasnt sure if I had leaks or not:
i was very generous with the bleeder/breather layer - very thick material, folded for double thickness, under pump hose even quadruple thickness so that every part of the board will be reached by the pump:
my pump is quite small, but high quality and very silent. I got it running in the room next to me and I cant hear it at all! tomorrow around this time Ill hopefully have as beautiful results as okp!
more updates probably tomorrow! fingers crossed for the motor wire channel
well done mate ! you'll be amazed with the results ! for a top finish, sand it a bit to make it smooth and then use epoxy resin that you just heat with a air dryer and it will make it more fluid and you can pull it to let the thinnest layer possible. This will make it glassy. If you want it matte, just use spray can matt
206monkey32
10 W
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 78
This is going to be sick!!!! looking forward to the results. @Okp and @Whiteponey -Where are you guys getting your vacum set ups in Europe?
looking forward to the results. @Okp and @Whiteponey -Where are you guys getting your vacum set ups in Europe?
whitepony
10 kW
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
- Messages
- 663
unwrapping complete, vaccuum bagging is really giving impressive results with nearly failproof execution! 
getting rid of the bag, removing the bleeding/breather layer, only thing between me and the carbon is the perforated release film:
removing the release film, woot, what a suprisingly perfect surface
the whole board, gotta do some cutting and sanding now. only stain on the otherwise perfect finish: the motor wire channel gave in under the pressure a little and it is quite clearly visible
I cut the openings of the channel, eager to try the acetone dissolving:
and it worked WOHOOO!!
this is actually the only part of the board where the release film left tiny marks ...
which I sanded off with 1000grit under water. Im not sure if im supposed to add some finish or if I can leave the board as it is, because it simply looks great. does the carbon require another protective layer of resin?
next is the case okp style, but inserted by 5mm into the board on a perfectly flat surface, so I only really need 1.8cm height - hope this will give the board a nice sleek look.
ill have to test to flex, but ill do that after tempering which alters the structural properties quite a bit according to the data sheet.
@monkey: I bought most stuff @ http://www.r-g.de
getting rid of the bag, removing the bleeding/breather layer, only thing between me and the carbon is the perforated release film:
removing the release film, woot, what a suprisingly perfect surface
the whole board, gotta do some cutting and sanding now. only stain on the otherwise perfect finish: the motor wire channel gave in under the pressure a little and it is quite clearly visible
I cut the openings of the channel, eager to try the acetone dissolving:
and it worked WOHOOO!!
this is actually the only part of the board where the release film left tiny marks ...
which I sanded off with 1000grit under water. Im not sure if im supposed to add some finish or if I can leave the board as it is, because it simply looks great. does the carbon require another protective layer of resin?
next is the case okp style, but inserted by 5mm into the board on a perfectly flat surface, so I only really need 1.8cm height - hope this will give the board a nice sleek look.
ill have to test to flex, but ill do that after tempering which alters the structural properties quite a bit according to the data sheet.
@monkey: I bought most stuff @ http://www.r-g.de
you made it ! awesome
just put with brush a ultra (ultra) thin layer of resin that you will heat before/during the process with a hairdryer. This will clean all the imperfections. You can then sand it with 1000 sandpaper and put a mat varnish (using a graffiti pain can).
just put with brush a ultra (ultra) thin layer of resin that you will heat before/during the process with a hairdryer. This will clean all the imperfections. You can then sand it with 1000 sandpaper and put a mat varnish (using a graffiti pain can).
Rikobonito
100 W
WOW !!!
This is GORGEOUS !
thanks for the sharing and never stops moving forward, push back the perfect finish 
the cable passage, the little digging, so perfect and beautifuuulllll
This is GORGEOUS !
thanks for the sharing
and never stops moving forward, push back the perfect finish the cable passage, the little digging, so perfect and beautifuuulllll
whitepony
10 kW
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
- Messages
- 663
thx
I had to watch our little puppy this morning, so I took half a day off and when she fell asleep I started working on the enclosure.
I took the polystyrol foam that I used for my motor wire channel (which actually got deformed under the pressure, guess its not the best foam for this job ... really hope it will withstand the pressure now. what sort of stuff are you using okp?)
anyway, I cut a rectangle with my cutter knife, large enough to have room for 1x vesc & 10S4P diy battery. sanded the surface a little and it looked like crap, very rough, some holes in it, so I used some epoxy filler to smooth it out a little.
sanding the filler, much better! as you can see, my shape is a little bit more square edged compared to okp's shapes ... I hope I wont run into trouble because well rounded shapes like a board should be a little easier with laminating. I just didnt want to waste room for battery & co just by rounding things too much, so I guess Ill have to find out.
top view, gotta say I really love the tesseract carbon look. the motor wire channel ends within the enclosure.
used release film (not perforated) to protect the board, wrapped the foam into cling film
... and went for it. sadly I have no pictures of the progress in between cause I didnt want get new gloves and I didnt want to waste time with the resin. basically I used one layer nonconducting GFK as isolator and 2 layers of the exact same 200g/m^2 carbon that I used for the board. I made sure that I had the orientation of the weaving matching that of the board, so the enclosure will be as unobtrusive as possible. hoping that 1 layer gfk and 2 layer carbon is enough structural support for the electronics. the 1 carbon layer on the board is really quite thin which mainly shows at the motor wire channel.
main issue I had were the corners ... I still remember the mess from trying to laminate my first enclosure without a vaccum pump. this time I was prepared: I cut in the edges diagonally and overlapped neighboring edges a little. on the last carbon layer I was actually able to deform the weaving patters enough so that I didnt have to cut anymore. Im really hoping it will look nice under the pressure. the whole process is quite like xmas ... wait for 24h and then unwrap to see what you got. love it
everything done, without vaccuum this would be a mess already. the fiber sheets had a lot of air everywhere, especially in all the corners. really no chance to do this with traditional laminating. after the carbon again the perforated release film to allow excess resin to leave the carbon sheets into the bleeder/breather layer. I used a LOT of resin for all the edges.
for the bleeder/breather layer I spent some times contemplating. on the board, 2 layers of this fairly thick material was really a handful! the upper layer didnt really get any resin anymore and if this layer is very thick, sharper shapes are ending up smoother and softer and I didnt want that for the enclosure. so i went with one layer, cut in the edges diagonally to have halfway well rounded edges of the case. then I added a 2nd layer ontop with JUST enough overlap to stop before the lower 90° angle (when the enclosure hits the board). that way Im hoping to have a round smooth surface and edges while at the same time preserving the relatively sharp edge when the enclosure hits the board. again here: trial and error, I dont really expect my first enclosure to be perfect.
vacuum go!! you can see how quickly the resin is soaked by the bleeder layer already.
check how the edges ontop of the enclosure look well rounded while the lower edge hitting the board is fairly sharp. I think I might have done the right thing!
tomorrow evening Ill know more
I had to watch our little puppy this morning, so I took half a day off and when she fell asleep I started working on the enclosure.
I took the polystyrol foam that I used for my motor wire channel (which actually got deformed under the pressure, guess its not the best foam for this job ... really hope it will withstand the pressure now. what sort of stuff are you using okp?)
anyway, I cut a rectangle with my cutter knife, large enough to have room for 1x vesc & 10S4P diy battery. sanded the surface a little and it looked like crap, very rough, some holes in it, so I used some epoxy filler to smooth it out a little.
sanding the filler, much better! as you can see, my shape is a little bit more square edged compared to okp's shapes ... I hope I wont run into trouble because well rounded shapes like a board should be a little easier with laminating. I just didnt want to waste room for battery & co just by rounding things too much, so I guess Ill have to find out.
top view, gotta say I really love the tesseract carbon look. the motor wire channel ends within the enclosure.
used release film (not perforated) to protect the board, wrapped the foam into cling film
... and went for it. sadly I have no pictures of the progress in between cause I didnt want get new gloves and I didnt want to waste time with the resin. basically I used one layer nonconducting GFK as isolator and 2 layers of the exact same 200g/m^2 carbon that I used for the board. I made sure that I had the orientation of the weaving matching that of the board, so the enclosure will be as unobtrusive as possible. hoping that 1 layer gfk and 2 layer carbon is enough structural support for the electronics. the 1 carbon layer on the board is really quite thin which mainly shows at the motor wire channel.
main issue I had were the corners ... I still remember the mess from trying to laminate my first enclosure without a vaccum pump. this time I was prepared: I cut in the edges diagonally and overlapped neighboring edges a little. on the last carbon layer I was actually able to deform the weaving patters enough so that I didnt have to cut anymore. Im really hoping it will look nice under the pressure. the whole process is quite like xmas ... wait for 24h and then unwrap to see what you got. love it
everything done, without vaccuum this would be a mess already. the fiber sheets had a lot of air everywhere, especially in all the corners. really no chance to do this with traditional laminating. after the carbon again the perforated release film to allow excess resin to leave the carbon sheets into the bleeder/breather layer. I used a LOT of resin for all the edges.
for the bleeder/breather layer I spent some times contemplating. on the board, 2 layers of this fairly thick material was really a handful! the upper layer didnt really get any resin anymore and if this layer is very thick, sharper shapes are ending up smoother and softer and I didnt want that for the enclosure. so i went with one layer, cut in the edges diagonally to have halfway well rounded edges of the case. then I added a 2nd layer ontop with JUST enough overlap to stop before the lower 90° angle (when the enclosure hits the board). that way Im hoping to have a round smooth surface and edges while at the same time preserving the relatively sharp edge when the enclosure hits the board. again here: trial and error, I dont really expect my first enclosure to be perfect.
vacuum go!! you can see how quickly the resin is soaked by the bleeder layer already.
check how the edges ontop of the enclosure look well rounded while the lower edge hitting the board is fairly sharp. I think I might have done the right thing!
tomorrow evening Ill know more
whitepony
10 kW
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
- Messages
- 663
yea, I saw that in your e-sk8 thread, but didnt have it available ... maybe next time!
really glad I bought the equipment for vacuum bagging. I feel it offers a whole new world for hobby diy applications ... and you were right: it really quite simple and, once you have all the gear, its also not too expensive. thanks for inspiring me!
really glad I bought the equipment for vacuum bagging. I feel it offers a whole new world for hobby diy applications ... and you were right: it really quite simple and, once you have all the gear, its also not too expensive. thanks for inspiring me!
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