Longer then normal bottom bracket cup?

[Apache Thunder]

Any one know of a brand that has slightly longer then normal left side bottom bracket cups?

I moved my ebike parts over to my mountain bike and noticed that I will need to install more spacer rings on the drive side so that the motor bracket is lined up better. However there isn't enough exposed threading on the left side cup to keep the lock-ring in place if I put in any more spacers. So I need one that is 2 to 4mm longer then normal so that I will have enough threading on the left side bottom bracket cup to ensure the lockring will stay on and still keep the pedal axle in place when under power.

Here's how it looked on my old bike. It was lined up better on that bike:

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/91/50/85685091/photos/undefined/IMAG0024.jpg

But now I will need a few more spacer rings on the right side cup.

My bike is one of the cheaper Wal-Mart bikes, thus it does not have any fancy cartridge system for the bottom bracket (would probably be a pain in the a** to try and get my mounting bracket to get along with a cartridge based BB anyway. ).

It's the old school cup and cone type bottom bracket with a separate left and right screw on cups (left side being the adjustable side) with loose bearings in a retainer. The threading has the left side unscrewing counter clockwise while the right side screws off when turned clockwise.

I've found multiple brands of these but none of which indicate the length/amount of threading of/on the left side cup.

Oh and the left side of the axle offsets the pedals so that the pedal cranks will have enough clearance to get by the motor, so I doubt I would ever find one that is too long! There is quite a bit of clearance between the left pedal crank and the bottom bracket. So space on that side is not an issue.

So the longest one you can possibly dig up would good enough for me.

 

[Chalo]

I suspect you're barking up the wrong tree. Remember that the bearing is in there, and you introduce unanticipated forces by overhanging the bearing outside the BB shell. Also, you offset the cranks from the plane of the bike's frame.

I think you'll be better off bending the rearward-pointing arm of the motor mount to fit correctly without spacers.

Chalo

 

[Apache Thunder]

The main limitation I have is that I lack the ability to fabricate any parts and since I now only have a part time job I can't go out and buy a bike with a more suitable bottom bracket since that will be a budget buster for me. Unless you are suggesting I use a cartridge based bottom bracket when you mentioned the shimano "e-type"? I've seen a few while searching for the parts but none seem to have the ability to offset the left side pedals so the pedal cranks won't hit the motor. Also what would I have to do to convert the bike to a cartridge based BB should that be the best route?

The motor is 36v 350 watt, and now that I've been using it, I don't pedal much. I don't believe having the right side cup out further will cause problems since the motor isn't really that powerful. But a BB set that has a longer right side cup as well might help ensure it doesn't get torn out of the bottom bracket but I guess only time will tell. Right now it works but the alignment issue is causing some extra noise in the chain. But I want everything tip top to make sure it lasts. My road bike I have taken off of I will keep in some kind of ride able state in case I need to put it all back on that bike if something goes horridly wrong with the mountain bike. So I do have a fall back if for some reason the bottom bracket does fail on me.

EDIT:

This is the pedal crank axle I'm currently using:

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=108&osCsid=7trmj28kclqappijo0s7rhshp6

The left side had to be offset away so the crank will clear the motor, but the right side needs to be close in so that the chainwheel will remain lined up with the motor's freewheel cog.

This is the BB cup and bearing set I ordered along with that axle and is what I'm currently using (I think. I have a spare set setting on my dresser but I'm unsure if I ended up using the existing BB set from my road bike or if I did indeed switch to that new one. The main reason I bought it was that the retainer rings for the bearings broke on the road bike since the numbskulls at the Wal-Mart warehouse put the BB bearings in backwards so the retainers got screwed up and the axle got loose. Lol Wal-Mart quality.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=93&osCsid=7trmj28kclqappijo0s7rhshp6

Whatever I do end up getting I need to be able to adjust the right side to some degree so that I can keep that chain wheel lined up.

EDIT:

I went out and checked and I did indeed use the new BB set I got along with the axle. Also another idea/alternative is to find out if there are spacer rings or something like that I could put on the inside of the cup to space the bearings out instead of spacing the entire cup out. Right now that right side cup still has plenty of threading left holding it in the bottom bracket, so I don't think spacing it out another 4 or so milometers isn't going to hurt. It only needs to be moved out a little more to make it line up good. The only reason I need to mess with the left side cup at all is to keep the bearings in tight so the axle doesn't wiggle.

 

[Chalo]

Ah, that's a pretty stuck spot you are in. Can't offset the chainring because it will just make the front freewheel fail faster, can't use a normal BB, and can't easily relocate the motor to where it won't foul the crank.

If at all possible, I'd try moving the motor to somewhere outside the radius of the crank. Until you do that, you'll be addressing one problem by creating another one, and so forth.

Chalo

 

[Apache Thunder]

I'm aware that moving the right side out more may put more stress on the bottom bracket, but I had it close to something like this on the road bike and put more then 300 miles on it thus far and not seen any problems with it at all. I doubt a couple more 2mm spacer rings is going to make everything blow up. I am not a heavy peddler and there isn't much in the way of hills since my town is mostly flat. Also the freewheel and chain wheel were originally designed to handle having a gas powered engine driving it, thus it's probably built to handle way more then what my little 350 watt electric motor can put out.

I can't move the motor anywhere else. At this point if I can't find that part, I will have to put it all back on the other bike where the alignment worked.

If I do that, then I guess I can get it on the road bike again and have something useable until I save up and hopefully get enough money in a month or two so I can just get a hub motor and dump the whole mid-drive system all together. If it's going to be that much trouble just to get a simple 4 to 8 millimeter alignment issue resolved then it's not worth spending more money on part fabrication as that would be what's required if I wanted to mount the motor in a different position.

I would try and find a hub motor with the wheel already assembled around it, but may end up getting one with just the motor, torque arm and spokes and build the thing myself if that gives me a big enough price difference. I'd lose the gear changing ability on the motor, but would still have something that would get me around.

 

[amberwolf]

If there is space to do it (probably not) you can make an extender for your BB cup, assuming things don't interfere.

I forget which side is the same as a rear threaded bike wheel hub, but you could hacksaw the threaded part of a junked hub off, and disassemble the freewheel from that hub so you only have the threaded core of it.

Then take that core and lathe, file, or sand it down on it's outer diameter until you have just the thickness you need to make the threaded extneder tube that will link both the existing BB and the new threaded bit you got off the old hub. You can also file, sand, or grind off the sides of that freewheel core so you only have the threaded bit, as you don't need the rest. If you start with a single-speed freewheel, it's easier.

The old hub threded part you can knock the bearing cup out of; it's just in the way in this application.


Then thread the ex-freewheel core over the existing BB cup end, thread in the ex-hub's threaded part, and adjust until you have enough threads to support things but still have enough threads to put the lockrings on for the motor mount.


You can use a BB cup instead of the hub's threaded portion, and you can use an old bike's BB shell instead of the freewheel core; just depends on what you have available or what is cheap at the junk bin at the bike shop.


Either way, it could leave your actual BB cup and bearing position alone, so you don't ahve to worry about that part. Depends on what you ahve to do to align stuff.

 

[Apache Thunder]

If I was going to start part milling, it would be simpler to just simply grind off excess metal from the bike frame's bottom bracket on the left side to expose more threading for the lock ring. I would just have to make sure it's done evenly since the lock ring wouldn't work well if the surface it's pressed against isn't even. That and I would have to spend another 40-50 bucks on a good Drimmel drill and drill bits just to even think about doing that. Remember both my bikes are "Wal-Mart" bikes. Thus if I screw the bike up, it wouldn't cost a whole lot to replace it. I recall only paying $88 for the mountain bike. Yeah there are some issues with Wal-Mart bikes in general.

lol there was even a recall for that mountain bike I have (yep I checked the manufacture date codes do match so my bike was indeed on the recall list). The recall involved defective bike chains braking under load. But I had already replaced the chain with a third party chain. Everything else on the bike seems to be working fine. I'm sure there are better places to get bikes, but again, I don't have a lot of money just hanging around and it would take many months with my new part time job to even think about getting a proper bike.

I could use my step dad's road bike if I wanted. That thing has titanium rims on a magnesium alloy frame. So that bike is super light. But..the BB uses a one piece crank of some sort and the right side has nothing for my motor bracket to stay on. That and I won't want to foul up an expensive bike. I recall he paid $1200+ for that bike. And that was 20-30 years ago when he originally got it, so it's probably more expensive due to inflation. So nope, not touching that one.

Anyway, the chain was starting to derail/jam while accelerating (would operate fine if the bike was up to speed) So I've pulled everything off and put it back on the 700c road bike. With that bike alignment is just about perfect and there is still an extra 2 to 4mm left for the left side BB cub so nothing special is needed if I wanted to add more spacers to that one. The bike doesn't run as smooth due to lack of suspension, but at least now it's 100% reliable.

It's unfortunate no one could find a larger sized left side cup. Perhaps larger bearings on the left side would have had the same effect? I could also try grinding off a little metal off the rear fork where the other end of the motor plate is resting on. The alignment isn't really that far off so it wouldn't take much adjustment at all to get it back in line. Still would have to buy a tool to do any grinding at all.

Oh well. I've gotten the other bike back up and running and I'll just save up for a hub motor and just dump the mid drive system all together once I get my mountain bike back to electric. I may keep the old mid drive system on the road bike and sell it. There have been plenty of people I've run across in my town that are really interested in it so I doubt I would have any problems selling one. Though they would have to foot the bill for getting a battery since I'm not planning on buying a second one.

Any one know of any "brushed" geared rear hub motors? I'm pretty sure a hub motor would not be safe on either of my bike's front forks, plus I don't like the idea of front wheel drive since it would alter how my bike would handle.

All the hub motors I've seen were all brushless. The reason I would prefer a brushed one over the brushless ones would be that then I wouldn't have to replace the speed controller and rewire everything again. But it looks like I may have too since I don't think a brushed hub motor exists anywhere....

 

[Chalo]

If I was going to start part milling, it would be simpler to just simply grind off excess metal from the bike frame's bottom bracket on the left side to expose more threading for the lock ring. I would just have to make sure it's done evenly since the lock ring wouldn't work well if the surface it's pressed against isn't even.

There is a tool that a good service oriented bike shop will have, called a "bottom bracket facing tool". It is designed to smooth and square up the BB shell, but it can also remove material. Probably the most economical way to do what you are talking about would be to scribe a line through the paint at the depth you want to cut to, then remove most of that material with an angle grinder, then have a bike shop face the shell down to your scribed line.

Talk to the shop first. If they'd rather do the bulk material removal themselves, let them.

Chalo

P.S. - If you strip your bike down to the frame only before bringing it to a shop for the cutting operation, they will appreciate it and their fee may reflect that.

 

[amberwolf]

I'm sure you can find one used, though new might be harder.

I believe Aotema used to make one, though I am not sure it was a rear.

I am nearly certain that TongXin made brushed versions of the motor in this thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25188&start=0
before they started with the brushless ones, so if you can find one (probably on old Currie bikes) you'd have a small one.

You can turn front motors into rear motors if their axles are long enough; I did this with a 9C DD 2807:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=37837
As long as the axle is long enough to accomodate the number of rear cluster sprockets you need, or you can use a singlespeed FW as I did, this works well enough for motors wtiht enough space inside the rightside cover to accomodate the fasteners you use to hold the ex-hub-flange to it. If you use more small fasteners it is probably better than a few large ones, but I wanted it quick and dirty so that's why mine's like it is.

 

[Apache Thunder]

Sorry for the bump, but I am thinking of switching my current BB setup to a cartridge type system:

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=107&osCsid=4j068e64hm9168feb43outb4u5

I think they can be used in bikes that used to use the 3 piece (cup and bearing) BB without having to modify the BB. (since I recently saw a video of a guy on youtube replacing a 3 piece set with a cartridge in one take and didn't see him do anything to the BB frame to make it fit. It just screwed right in. )

It looks like I can offset the cartridge BB more then I would have been able to do with the cup and bearing system and it may also be stronger then a cup and bearing system. At least in terms of how it would handle the offset when compared to the older cup and bearing system since unlike the 3 piece system it's got it's own frame so to speak so it has more support on the side that is offset outside the BB frame. The cup and bearing system isn't connected via it's own frame so the right side cup has to support all the forces. A cartridge seems more balanced as the load would be spread out across the entire cartridge shell. Plus on my road bike even with the offset I have yet to see it brake or show any signs of damage. I've gone at least a thousand miles on it by now and not seen any problems. So a stronger cartridge system seems logical if I want to offset it just a tad more when I put the kit back onto the mountain bike.

Anything I need to know about cartridge/single unit BB parts before I commit to this?

I do know that I will need to also get the additional adapter tool to install this as it's a bit different in how it's screwed on. The axle ends are the same so I won't have to replace the chain wheel or pedal cranks.

From the image I was able to count the amount of threads on the left side (normally the adjustable cup side for a 3 piece crank set) and it has more threading then any of the left side cups I have right now.

 

[Chalo]

Cartridge bottom brackets are just plain easier to deal with than loose ball units. That's why they've taken over the market for square taper BBs, at least among decent quality bikes. They don't last forever, but they last longer with no maintenance than loose ball BBs last when they have no maintenance. Shimano BB-UN26 bottom brackets ($16 retail) are my default replacements when there is not an obvious reason to use something else and the customer didn't specify a preference.

Note that cartridge bottom bracket spindles have longer overhangs from supporting bearings than equivalent loose ball BBs, so they are more flexible. Using a longer than normal one will make it even more flexible. That may or may not be a problem for you.

You can easily buy installation tools for a cartridge BB, but you might as well have a local service shop do it if you don't plan to revise your equipment routinely. It's an easy procedure, but also rather easy to screw it up and damage a retention ring if you are uncareful or inexperienced.

 

[amberwolf]

(edit: chalo probably said it a lot better while I was typing)


I'm not totally sure, but I think the old cup-and-cone bearing system might be stronger with the not-completely-radial loads that seem to happen with cranks; they definitely are stronger for wheels that get side-loads. I dont' know what the loading is with a motor on there, but is probalby the same as with cranks (excpet that the loading changes constantly and evenly on the axle as it rotates, instead of in surges as the cranks go round and get pushed on by the rider).

Either way, there's nothing special I know of to do when swapping out cup-and-cone BB for cartridge BB, other than maybe cleaning out all the old dirt, rust, and grease out of the BB shell. :lol:

(the Thun sensor for the CA V3 setup is a cartridge BB, and just swaps out the old for the new).


The one exception is if you have a frame that has it's BB threaded wrong (backwards), because with the cartridge if it's endcap on one side is part of the cartrdige and unremovable (like the Thun), you have to install it backwards, too. I have this problem on a Magna frame that is the front half of CrazyBike2.

 

[Chalo]

There is a possible concern when switching from loose ball to cartridge bottom bracket in this situation. Many cartridge BBs don't have as long a thread on the shouldered cup as a loose ball BB does. It can be significantly shorter, like 1/4" less on some cartridge BBs. So depending on how far you intend to offset the cartridge, you could run short of mounting threads and perhaps even strip the threads in the frame when tightening to spec.

The SickBikeParts BB looks to have a fairly generous thread length on the shoulder end, and a left side retaining ring that can sink below the bottom bracket shell face if necessary; both those things work in your favor. You might need to have a bike shop tap the left side threads a little deeper for you, if the left side ring runs out of thread before securing the BB. Take care not to mount the BB so far to the right that only the thinnest part of the drive side retaining ring is supported by the frame. That would predispose the retaining ring to break at the point where it emerges from the BB shell.

 

[Apache Thunder]

Thank you for the the information. I will think about buying this and installing it.

It will probably be another week or two before I get the motor and kit moved to the bike, so I will have it installed (but not tightened since I will later pull it out to install the motor bracket) with out the motor bracket. I will take some photos of how far I will have it offset so you can see if there will be any issues or not. I have a good idea where the end of the motor bracket needs to be, so I can simply offset it, and a photo can show how much exposed threading there will be since I won't have the spacer rings and motor bracket installed to block the view. The bike needs tubes and I won't be getting those until a week or two after I get the cartridge BB since my weekly paychecks are kinda small. So that's why I won't immediately move the kit to the bike once I get the new BB parts.

Taking it to a bike shop for any alteration will be a last resort since my new job gets me only 16 hours a week at the most on minimum wage, so I don't have a lot of money to work with sadly. If I had still had my full time job, I would have had less of an issue taking it to a bike shop. I ended up getting the expensive lithium battery right before I lost my full time job, so I consider myself fortunate since the SLA batteries I sold off, (which I still thought were still good) died right as the buyer tried to use them. I sold them on eBay and said I had a 7 day return policy from the delivery date. The buyer however did not send my any messages until after that 7 day period expired, so thus I got lucky and no negative feed back resulted. So far the lithium battery has already lasted longer then the SLA batteries did. Since if that battery dies, I won't be able to afford to replace it, so I will try and take extra care of it.

I think the BB is threaded normal for bikes in America. Right side is the left handed thread, so the fixed cup turns clockwise to remove and counterclockwise to tighten. Right side is normal threading and screws off when rotated counter clockwise and tightens clockwise.

 

[Chalo]

Taking it to a bike shop for any alteration will be a last resort since my new job gets me only 16 hours a week at the most on minimum wage, so I don't have a lot of money to work with sadly.

I don't know where you live, but if you are anywhere near a community bike shop, that could be a great benefit to you. They'd have the specialty tools you need, and maybe even some knowledgeable help.

I ended up getting the expensive lithium battery right before I lost my full time job, so I consider myself fortunate since the SLA batteries I sold off, (which I still thought were still good) died right as the buyer tried to use them.

I don't know who said "a used battery is like an open can of beer" (Gaston maybe?), but truer words were never spoken. There is no more radical form of paying yer money and taking yer chances than with a used battery.

 

[Apache Thunder]

lol. Indeed. The SLA batteries I bought from a local car parts store. (I can't figure out how to spell the store's name so the most I can give you is O'R***lys or is it Ol'R***lys... can't even remember that. ). They had to ship them in. I assumed they were brand new. Perhaps they were defective since I didn't get good range out of them at all. I did recharge them promptly after using 50% of their capacity and I had a battery meter that let me know how much capacity I used.

At this point I am pretty sure either the batteries were defective that resulted in shorter then normal lifespan or something I did that caused them to die faster. I have no idea what it was. But I'm glad I got rid of those bas***rds since they were freakin heavy and since the battery pack was mounted on the rear bike rack, it made the bike a bit unstable. The lithium batteries I got from a seller on eBay, so I would guess I was rolling the dice a bit on that one since I heard some sellers (mostly all from China) end up pushing out unstable/defective lithium batteries which are even more of a hazard then SLA batteries that are defective.

But I must have struck gold I guess since I got a decent price on mine and the LifePo4 battery I got has been going strong for almost a year now despite enduring the vibration of being on a bike that has no rear suspension. My main motivation for switching my kit to my MTB bike since it has rear suspension and would put a lot less stress on the battery box plus the suspension would definitely make the ride feel smoother since I'm almost always traveling 18MPH and often reach speeds up to 24MPH now that I upgraded the speed controller. Slowing down when reaching a dip or bump is annoying and reduces the range of my battery from having to accelerate again. So definitely aim to get it back on my MTB as soon as I can.

It helps that I deliberately avoid the "duct tape" batteries. I spent a good hour or more deciding which ebay listing to get it from including researching the feedback history of each potential seller I would have gotten one from. I'm normally not that choosy with eBay stuff, but when I'm plopping down $300 or so bucks on something that will take 3 weeks to arrive...better safe then sorry. Paid off in the end.

As for the my options with local bike shops....the closest bike shop I know of is in Lubbock Texas, and that's roughly more then 35miles from me. If I ever decide to take the bike there, I would have to find someone to drive me since I do not own a car, nor know how to drive one. (since I have yet to get a driver's license and such) I wish my small town had a bike shop. I would have gone down there real quick to figure out how much they would charge for the various things I had in mind.

 

[Chalo]

...the closest bike shop I know of is in Lubbock Texas,

Holy mother of God-- I'm so sorry. I feel terrible for you.

 

[Apache Thunder]

Alright the new one piece BB came in the mail. (will have to wait another day for the special wrench to actually tighten it on). I did a test install and it appears I will have at least half the threading on the fixed side inside the frame. The frame also appears to have more then enough threading on the right side so I can probably screw the right side cup all the way in.

Am I correct to assume that cartridge crank sets do not require a lock ring on the right side? The right side cup piece seems to act to keep the cartridge aligned properly. It it just slides off/on and doesn't grip the cartridge shell. Where as a usual 3 piece BB set, the right side needs the lockring to keep the crank axle tight against the left fixed cup and visa versa.

Looks like I can still use a lock ring on the right side if I need to. I estimated how far out the fixed side will be once everything is installed and I was a bit conservative with it, so I believe it's far enough in that nothing will break


Here's how it looks prior to install.


(click to enlarge)

Once the special wrench comes I will install it and provide photos.

I like how smooth it feels when I rotate the axle. Seems to be more sturdy then the 3 piece BB parts. Should have switched to cartridge a long time ago.

Also note that this part along with my freewheel crank-set came off a website that sells parts intended for gas powered bicycles, so most the parts I have probably are more then strong enough to handle my much weaker electric system. The right side of the axle is longer so that the right pedal crank won't collide with the motor.

 

[Apache Thunder]

Ahh well completely forgot about this place. Some time has passed so I will update this thread.

Well the spacing on the right side was off when I tried to use the one piece BB. (the right side had the chain wheel too far outwards from the motor cog. I could in theory take off the freewheel adapter for the chainwheel and use spacer rings to offset this, but removing it proved impossible for me even with the correct tool as it was on there super tight)

So in the end I ended up using a Dremel tool to cut some material off the rear fork. Sorta of meet things in the middle sort of approach. Gone 600+ miles on it now, and it hasn't bent or shown any signs of stress, so looks like I got it on the sweet spot. Didn't expect any issues anyways since the rear suspension absorbs weight/impact better. Heck the old hard tail bike I had this kit on had the chain eat through the side of the rear fork and even that didn't seem to weaken it. But either way, the dremel work was a last resort and thus decided to go that route rather then spend more money I didn't have.

Photos (slightly outdated, really the only difference is a slight change in the screws on the motor cog area): (click to enlarge)




I took away roughly half the metal in that area. It looks nasty, but I went 600 miles on it and it has shown ZERO signs of any bending or weakness.

The chain is a bit worn from grinding on the bottom screw spacer. I have since replaced the chain. More on that below.

Besides installing a rear kickstand, I made this photo edit to explain the alterations I did to the motor area that I haven't got photos of right now:



I replaced the guide gear with a non toothed pulley and removed the bottom screw indicated in the photo. I had a spare screw from back when I still had the side mounted bracket parts, so I used the short screw to keep the motor firmly attached to the bracket. Only difference here now is that the long screw is gone so the chain won't hit up against anything. The design of this kit was a bit flawed. The motor cog teeth are a bit too long and so the chain sticks to it a little too long sometimes on high torque (would occur even on perfect alignment). The jamming/noise was the chain hitting the bottom screw that reached across the chain line. I took away that obstruction and the chain makes no noise and doesn't jam. I originally thought the chain was jamming on the top end. But I discovered that the chain nearly ate through the bottom screw spacer! So I knew then how to fix the problem finally!

At this point only a severely rusty chain or poor gear alignment could result in the chain wrapping around and hitting the rear screw mount and that has not happened. The pulley wheel I put in place of the toothed gear means that the chain has nothing to "fall off of" if and when the chain hops about a little from sticking to the motor cog a little too long. The chain never leaps off the cog on the top since the guide pulley wheel is large enough to keep the chain from slipping on the motor cog, so the chain never jams/slips on top. So top screw can stay.

It's pretty much problem free now!

The only other improvement I want is finding a slightly narrower guide pulley with a better fit on the screw. But in the end I can live without that as it's not a big problem as it is now. (I'm probably just nitpicking things. The guide pulley spins freely so the chain isn't getting any excess friction from it.)


As for the throttle, I'm thinking more about getting a "half" version of the twist throttle. Not twist motion range. I mean half in size so that the end has just a rubber grip on the handle bar. It would be less bulky then the one I have now since I have thought about this more and decided against using a thumb throttle with my thumb shifter. I already have a different thread on this subject. So I won't speak much about it here.


So this pretty much concludes this thread.

Thanks for all the help you guys provided. First ebike I've worked with so this has all been a learning experience for me. If I ever build another, I definitely feel like I can do it better and cheaper with less mistakes. Heck it's a miracle I finished this on the budget I have now. I got my SSI back so I can only do things in small increments every month. (I have Autism - Aspergers if you must inquire. I'm not afraid to mention that if it ever comes up. )

So I'm satisfied with what I got. Making small mistakes here and there is the best way I learn things in the end. That's how I learned how to fix computers. By crashing/bugging them up when I was a kid. Trial and error was just how I was wired to do it I suppose. Only this time I spent a little more money then I had needed to.

But I regret nothing! This bike is how I get around since I don't drive, and to me this bike is my car!