Making a custom secure container

[swbluto]

When I was packing around some cargo on my bike, I realized that a car has one thing my bike doesn't have: The ability to securely store things. Without that, I felt a little uneasy parking outside the department stores when someone could easily take my valuable possessions by simply pulling them out. So, I realized, I need a securable container.

But, not just any container, a custom designed one, preferably lightweight and conformed to the shape of my bike. This way I can integrate the container on my bike to make the bike more aerodynamic, which is important for speed and range.

Got any ideas?

The locking mechanism needs to be pretty secure and I'm not really concerned about destructibility of the container, to an extent (If the container looks pretty and looks nice/valuable with the bike, few thieves will dare try to destroy it, unless you're parking somewhere really sketchy.), but it'd be ideal if it was really hard to take.

 

[swbluto]

I'm thinking a suitably sized and well chosen plastic container could be secured by installing some kind of locking mechanism, like a cam lock, and then the container could be made more aero by adding a fairing of some sort, maybe a fairing made of thin plastic or a wiremesh+fabric fairing.

That might be the easiest way to do it.

Though, making a custom container sounds like it'd be ideal as one could easily max out the space available instead of lucking out by coming across 'just the right sized' plastic container, though I'm not disillusioned about the probable effort involved.

 

[TwoWayStreet]

When I was packing around some cargo on my bike, I realized that a car has one thing my bike doesn't have: The ability to securely store things.

No kidding! What a discovery!

 

[swbluto]

When I was packing around some cargo on my bike, I realized that a car has one thing my bike doesn't have: The ability to securely store things.

No kidding! What a discovery!

Lol, when I first got into electric bikes, I didn't really 'haul' around anything - just getting to school and work so the need never arose. However, I just brought along a lot of tools and service equipment for a long distance multi-day trip, and the need suddenly arose, and that limited my ability (Willingness) to stop into the department stores for something (Like a replacement inner tube; my first inner tube popped two miles into the trip and I had to use my backup inner tube.). However, that wasn't a problem at places where I could see the bike, such as restaurants.

On the series, "Long Day Down" (A series about these guys motorcycling through Africa starting from England), those guys got their camping gear stolen.

 

[amberwolf]

Depends on what you want to put in it, what weight limit you have for the container and how heavy stuff in it will be, and where on the bike you can put it, etc.


On DayGlo Avenger and CrazyBike2, I use some big aluminum boxes that used to be rackmount test equipment cases, and presently am using sides and lids that used to be the tops of very deep rackmount server cases, with a piano-hinge salvaged from the old treat bars tossed out during the remodels. They are locked using cabinet locks whose tongue-tabs rotate into a slot cut into the side of the box itself. Presently I am only using one lock, in the center, but for extra security you could put one at each corner, too, and/or use a pivoting rod assembly that is turned by the lock and pushes a rod out to the corners that locks them, too.

I have yet to have anyone test the security of the boxes, AFAIK, or if they did they just left them alone after finding them locked.

The boxes on CrazyBike2 are bolted with 1/4-20 bolts and nuts to the 1" square tubing that makes up the cargo pod rails that are part of the frame. However, on DayGlo Avenger, the single pod is bolted to an aluminum plate (ex-rackmount "ears" that is hose-clamped around the rear triangle stays, thru slots cut in the plate. That doesn't work as well as CB2's method, nor does it allow as heavy a cargo, but it works reasonably well for the majority of cargo I need to carry in it. The box is *just* far enough back to not get heelstrikes on it while pedalling, and is centered a bit above the axle.

I also have each one lined with styrofoam, to insulate them from the hot sun, for carrying frozen goods and meats from the store to home, as well as cold drinks or food on long rides. With inch-thick styrofoam it eats up the cargo capacity pretty badly but it also keeps them cold enough that six ice trays of ice only partly melted during a several-hour trip in the hottest part of the afternoon/evening, even leaving it parked in the direct sun on the hot asphalt for a couple of hours, with the insulated box being black on the outside. (I used actual ice to make it easier for me to *see* how much of it melted over time). See my post from earlier today on my CrazyBike2 thread for details on that part.


I have not bothered with aero yet, but it would definitley make a difference, as big as these boxes are.

 

[swbluto]

Took measurements of my recumbent's seat using a thin rope, tied a knot to record the length, and went to the store and got a nearly perfectly sized solid blue plastic container! I'm going to cut it in half, put a solid ring around the lip to prevent it from getting deformed near the top, and then I'm going to create an aluminum cover and integrate the cam lock into that. (Still not solid on the cover design. I was thinking about using two cam locks, but I think I could get away with one with the appropriate design.)

This will work out well because the container could further be used to easily build a rear fairing on the bike, making it more aero. The recumbents with the rear fairings are the guys that go FAST and FAR, and you often see them in the final stages of the HPV events mingling with the velomobiles.

The next step up is the velomobiles, but those are out of my budget, lol. And, I don't really feel safe in typical velomobiles.

 

[swbluto]

Amibition thwarted. I made the prototype and fitted in and there were seemingly unavoidable gaping holes in the meshing between the container and recumbent seat and it looked highly insecure. Adding a securable top would've been a joke.

Another one of those "It looked like it'd work out so well in my mind, but reality differed." kind of things, lol.

Thinking I probably should seek out a sturdier container, one whose closing mechanism isn't flimsy. Don't expect I'll find one that'll match my exact specs too readily, so I'm shelfing the "adapt a plastic container to the bike" idea for now.

Would still be interested in creating a custom lightweight container, if anybody knows of any apropriate construction methods.

Read an article on fiberglass construction methods. Sounded pretty easy and straightforward but... Hmm... not so sure fiberglass is designed to take a beating from crashes/falls...

Wait... would constructing a frame from hollow aluminum rods and adding custom abs plastic siding be a possibility?

Seems like one could conform the shape more readily to the shape of the bike, it could be relatively lightweight, and it seems like it could be pretty sturdy and readily reparable if need be.

Not sure if I'll need to learn how to weld aluminum or if there are easier, alternative ways of joining together aluminum rods at arbitrary angles.

I remember how easy it was to construct nifty little shapes from my tinker toy sets. Is there anything on that order of 'easiness' for something like this? Just pop it together and away you go, lol.

Like... Join together the rods with clay and then dip the joint into an epoxy mixture (JB weld, possibly). Not sure how durable that'd be, lol, but it seems some process like that *could* work.

 

[friendly1uk]

What does your bike look like? Can't you just buy something?

 

[swbluto]

What does your bike look like? Can't you just buy something?

I have to use an angled box to maximize the space available. I also want to make sure the box is directly behind the seat and not "hanging out", as I don't want to interfere with aerodynamics. I was carrying cargo that hanged out the side and below the seat and my energy efficiency dropped like a brick, and my 150 mile range suddenly was reduced to 75 miles which left me without enough energy for the return trip. I want to carry cargo without ruining my range, and if I can integrate a fairing around the container, I could possibly improve it.

 

[friendly1uk]

Well that's not what I expected
It is where I was thinking of though. It seems a typical cycle top box is what you need.

http://www.roaduserdirect.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1015
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polisport-Top-Case-Cargo-Box-for-cycles-bikes-new-35-x-25-x-18cm-12kg-capacity-/360738973632

If the box you like has no lock, then you could add a hasp and staple with epoxy.

 

[swbluto]

I need far more space than what commercial offerings have, so it looks like I'll have to DIY. I need to put 3ft poles in the cargo area, and my prototype yesterday could just barely fit them, and the prototype was a lot bigger than those cycle top boxes. Also, it wouldn't be wise to just stick on a regular big box on the back because of center of gravity reasons - the bike becomes really unstable at above 20mph with too much weight too far back.

I'm looking for something like this.

 

[swbluto]

Just thought if I had a 3d printer, I could print a specially designed rod holder for each joint in the rhombus, and then epoxy it in. No need for welding or anything. The joint is as strong as the plastic (Which should be strong enough and if it breaks, then another can be printed).

Then I thought I could probably machine something like that, though I'm not entirely sure if I could get it precise enough with my tools in getting the right angle and all that. I probably could, but 3d printers sounds like they'd be so much cooler to use and it'd be repeatable.

 

[friendly1uk]

Are there lots of poles to carry? Usually they come in tubes. Could you keep the box small and gain a tube along your cycles beam for the poles (rods?)

 

[nechaus]

i can print you a plastic box swbluto. limited to 170x170x170mm


i just printed a box to go on my bike on my rear rack where my controller is, holding all the wiring, its a bit fancy with an added fan, not that i need a fan because my controller does not even get warm, but i wanted to nerd it up.


maybe you should look into building a 3d printer? im very confident you could easily do it.

 

[cwah]

you can also maybe find some hackerspace around you to print a box

 

[swbluto]

i can print you a plastic box swbluto. limited to 170x170x170mm


i just printed a box to go on my bike on my rear rack where my controller is, holding all the wiring, its a bit fancy with an added fan, not that i need a fan because my controller does not even get warm, but i wanted to nerd it up.


maybe you should look into building a 3d printer? im very confident you could easily do it.

Thanks for the offer! But, my box needs to be at least 500mm on one side. I saw that they have 3d-printers capable of printing that big, like the stratasys objet1000, but definitely a bit out of my budget, lol.

I'm going to check out the local hackerspace to see what they have. Didn't really get the impression my town would have a "hacker space", but looks like it started earlier this year. If it's happening here, it has to be a national phenomena, lol.

 

[cwah]

have you sorted it out?

 

[swbluto]

Found a local 3d printer to hire from makexyz.com (I also checked out the 3d printer at the local hacker space, but it seemed like it would've been awkward to use it for hours on end since I didn't really know anyone there.), but never gotten around to it. Winter fast approaches and focusing on way more important things now.

But, yes, it does look like it's possible without dropping $2000 on a 3d printer or spending a mint at shapeways.

 

[xenodius]

I will be quite curious to hear what kind of a deal you end up getting, and what the finished quality is like.

Right now I'm strongly considering getting a Bikebin + Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus... one permanent, secure container and a waterproof, easily removable one.

 

[heavymetalthunder]

A friend of mine mentioned looking into a simple mail box and put a latch and lock on it.

 

[John in CR]

It doesn't get much easier than for that BikeE. Make a tailbox/trunk using 2 parallelograms, a triangle for a top and a triangle for a bottom. Then a rectangle that you curve to match the back of your seat. Anchor the bottom to your main tube and the two parallelograms and curved rectangle to your seat supports for rigidity of the whole structure.

Make it out of the thinnest plywood you can find. You can always add a layer of glass cloth to the inside after you make sure the size and shape are ok, especially for cross winds. For a more rounded look get a sheet or block of styrofoam and carve a more rounded form for better aero and shed cross winds better. Get your shape and then lay fiberglass cloth over it and then use acetone or whatever is typically used to make the styrofoam mold disappear leaving your trunk. The BikeE has that boxy shape already, so I wouldn't be able to resist a test trunk using plywood, since sharp angles and straight edges match the bike. Light, easy to make, and easily finished with simple sanding and paint. Thin plywood is easy to curve, so you could put a curve in those 2 side panels to increase volume and rigidity.

 

[itsmedc65]

Wait... would constructing a frame from hollow aluminum rods and adding custom abs plastic siding be a possibility?

Seems like one could conform the shape more readily to the shape of the bike, it could be relatively lightweight, and it seems like it could be pretty sturdy and readily reparable if need be.

Not sure if I'll need to learn how to weld aluminum or if there are easier, alternative ways of joining together aluminum rods at arbitrary angles
.

Not sure about how to best join them but aluminium tent poles can be bought with some nice preformed angles.
Might also consider using fiberglass or even carbon fiber tent supports as a frame.

http://www.questoutfitters.com/tent_poles.htm

 

[xenodius]

Partsexpress.com abs sheets and acetone and eye dropper: patrickza's method. Score, snap, weld! Easy as pie! Just add hinges and a hardware lock when you're done!

-mobile

 

[middriveebike]

I think for a bike, no matter what kind of secure container you custom make, nothing cannot be open with a big flat head screw driver.
The only thing you can do is to make it hard enough for people who walk by without any tools, and unattractive looking enough for those with tools.

My ebike is with a motocycle trunk from the first built.
One night when I come back, the bike was sleeping on the ground with the trunk open.

My flash light and all the tools are gone. From that day on, I park my bike in front of a good light fitness. Those people who are running on the machine will keep an eye on the bike for me.