Mid 90s Giant ATX (new hub motor and controller Pg2)

[grimbasement]

I've been reading for about a month here at ES and it was the trans Canada ebike trip that brought me on board. Anyway, I considered 9 cont/Amped, a 408, a 5304 I thought about front or rear, geared and ungeared. Finally I settled on a BMC 400W Rear motor (from Comcyles ebay store) The BMC kit comes with a thumb throttle and a 36 V 25 A BMC controller (I couldn't find a lot of info about it) but I may consider an upgraded controller. a CA and a Ping 36V 20AH battery. My daily commute is only 3 miles each way with a 300 foot elevation gain in the last .5 mile, but when temps get above 90 degrees in the summer I wanted something to help out and I'm a big guy (~250) so dragging me by hefty self up the hill is a lot tougher than it used to be. I rode my bike to work this summer as often as I could, but hot/sweaty didn't appeal to me so conditions and temperature had to be just right or I didn't ride.

I also want some extended range for weekend day trips and piddling around town. I'm not interested in mondo unassisted speeds of >20 mph... I still wanna peddle.

All told I bought everything with the ebay BIN price so here's the breakdown:

$614 for the Ping
$649 for the BMC 400W Rear
$144 for the CA w speedometer
$20 for the torque arm

TOTAL: $1427

BUT!! on Black Friday/Cyber Monday MSLive offered a 30% off coupon (It is now 20% off) for ebay purchases so I will be getting a $430 rebate bringing the cost to
$998 not bad.

I also opted for a (very pricey why are those things $20 ea?) torque arm even though it's a rear hub I hope it fits and I hope I don't need 2. Maybe it's overkill over or maybe a torque arm isn't even necessary. I'm still waiting for everything to trickle in from UPS.

I bought this bike brand new back in 1992 and I've never been able to get rid of it... I still love the bike. It has about 3000 miles on it but very few of those in the last decade. The bike was shopped last year with new shifters derailers crank, brakes (yadda yadda), and I deep sixed the clipless peddles so the picture is not completely up to date but here it is.

I'm looking for a very clean install, so I'm still trying to determine what I'm going to use to mount everything. I've thought about mounting everything (controller and batteries) in a on the Swagman rear rack storage pod or in one of the Novara Commuter rack trunk. I'll probably start with a Army surplus ammo can.

I do have a child seat/trailer to contend with sometimes so I may be looking into a triangle mount solution too I'll know more once I actually get some of the hardware in my hot little hands. If this all works out like I hope it will, I may be looking at adding an xtracycle or opting to (gasp) get a new bike (possibly a big dummy) sometime next year.

 

[dogman dan]

Nice ! The way prices got this summer, I thought I had built the last long range commuter bike for under $1000 las spring. You smart dude.

 

[grimbasement]

I received the hub motor today from FedEx sans the rear cogset. I called ComCycle and they said they'd the cog out to me pronto. I also noticed there is a sticker on the hub that says "output 250W" the item was listed as a 400 W motor... did I get the right motor? It was my understanding that the BMC 400W motor is also known as the Puma from other retailers, is that correct?


I'm still waiting on the Ping battery but with the consistent line of snow storms lining up I have plenty of time to wait and get this thing set up correctly.

 

[pwbset]

a sticker on the hub that says "output 250W" the item was listed as a 400 W motor

You can ignore any manufacturers wattage listings... they are only for legalities I have no doubt. Your motor will no doubt easily handle the 36v25a/900w max that your controller can dish out. I can almost promise you'll want more power. :wink:

EDIT: Thinking about it though despite any printed wattages there are, of course, differences in motor sizes etc. so clearly you'll want to confirm you got the right "size".

 

[grimbasement]

I received my 36V 20 Ah Ping battery today. Still no 7 speed hub though. Anyway, I found this as a battery mounting solution.

http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/ATT-9065-1/

The interior dimensions are 11-1/8 x 7-3/4 x 10-1/8 in.
I'm guessing it will work pretty well for the 6.3x6.1x8.3 inch Ping Battery. It allows just enough space for some cushioning to protect the soft sides of the duct tape battery. Added bonus is that it is water tight... until I drill holes to feed the wires through. For $20 I'll give it a try.

 

[grimbasement]

Well, I finally got the bike (mostly) finished and set up for my first real ride.

I ended up going the Ammo can route for battery mounting and I have to say it turned out better than I had hoped. It's almost like the can was built for my Ping 36V 20 Ah battery.

I used mans best friend and 2 plastic chopsticks to rig up a handle on the battery pack for easy removal for charging and cushioning while riding.

I mounted the controller on the ammo box and painted the box and the controller black. It actually looks a lot better than the crappy iphone camera indicates.

Here's the inside of the Ammo box. Literally held together with bailing wire. Eventually, I'll put some huge blobs of solder on the bailing wire, Probably when I add the kill switch.

And finally here's the complete bike. I think it's looks pretty good. It's pretty heavy in the rear but I don't have any problems while riding it. The new 2.3 in tires make for a very cushy ride even with the rigid fork. I took it out for a nice 10 mile ride to check everything out and I really like it.... BUT

When I got back I put down Pletcher 2 leg the kickstand and balanced the bike. I turned around to walk away and the bike fell over. Turns out there concrete was uneven. The bike fell and the axel hit the wire just perfectly to slice it half way through right at the hubmotor so there's no hope of soldering the wires together. I'll have take apart the entire hub and re-solder the wire to the windings, not happy.

So I'm off to the bike store to buy a freewheel remover and try and fix this thing. Once I get it back together I'm going to add some reinforment, and put a bolt cap on the end to keep this from happening again. Is there anything I should do upgrade wise on the inside of the hub motor while I have it torn apart?

So on the to do list:
Resolder the wires so the bike will run
Kill Swith
and CUT THE KICKSTAND TO THE PROPER LENGTH AND TIGHTEN IT SO THE BIKE WILL BE MORE STABLE WHEN PARKED!!!
Cap the axel end and reinforce the wire to prevent something like this in the future.

 

[grimbasement]

Here's a pic of the damage to the wire.

So I'm guessing to get to windings I need to remove the freewheel? At that point what do I need to do to remove the aluminum covering?

 

[morph999]

my hub had the same problem with the wires being split like that. Fortunate for me, we didn't have to take the whole thing apart. I got someone to solder it for me and tape it up good.

 

[dogman dan]

How come this crap always happens the first ride? I cut my wires with an axle spinout after about a half mile my first ride. Can the axle end be notched so the wires arent the sticking out like that? Or do you need all the threads. They should make em so the wire is not the thing that protrudes the farthest. Maybe you can fabricate something that would stick out farther than the axle so it hits first and saves the wires next time. Nice job on the ammo can. If I ever go 48v, I'm thinking two 12 ah packs and put em in panniers. Hey, panniers would protect that hub. 8)

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

If I ever go 48v, I'm thinking two 12 ah packs and put em in panniers. Hey, panniers would protect that hub. 8)

The weight would also be lower.

 

[grimbasement]

Well, I got the freewheel off and the connections on the winding side are just not serviceable by me. There's HUGE amount (read big effin blob) of hard epoxy, and I don't know if I can or should use thinner to remove it, it could be that I would damage it beyond repair. I'm actually hoping I can get an RMA from BMC and exchange/purchase a new motor. I hope I can get this resolved quickly. Maybe there is someone on ES that can repair it?? I can solder but without the correct tools to remove the epoxy I think I'll just make things worse. Are there any vendors that just sell the motor part, without the aluminum housing and wheel? That way I could just swap the motor and keep every thing else intact.

 

[biohazardman]

Well, I got the freewheel off and the connections on the winding side are just not serviceable by me. There's HUGE amount (read big effin blob) of hard epoxy, and I don't know if I can or should use thinner to remove it, it could be that I would damage it beyond repair. I'm actually hoping I can get an RMA from BMC and exchange/purchase a new motor. I hope I can get this resolved quickly. Maybe there is someone on ES that can repair it?? I can solder but without the correct tools to remove the epoxy I think I'll just make things worse. Are there any vendors that just sell the motor part, without the aluminum housing and wheel? That way I could just swap the motor and keep every thing else intact.

Not much around that will take care of the epoxy without ruining everything else. Bummer, from what I have seen and experienced the epoxy can be chipped away with a chisel, cut with a Dremel or a heat gun with putty knife or screw driver can be used. Be careful with the heat things will not get very soft. You need to cover what you can and have a vacuum around to keep the chips out of the rest of the motor or they will give you grief down the road. I have not finished mine still need parts. Hope to be able to get it back into working order someday. However, I have another bike that is on the road so not in a great hurry.
Good luck and yes you can do it although it's a bit of work.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6924

 

[grimbasement]

Thanks for the condolences. It really does suck to see a $500 worthless hunk of metal. I saw the pics of your BMC epoxy job and as hard as it may be to believe, my motor has MORE. The epoxy is a half inch thick and covers half the motor and completely covers the hole where the wire makes the 90* turn and to make it worse, it's an opaque epoxy so I can't see anything. I think I will try the dremel idea. I can't screw it up any worse than I already have (aside from dropping it of course).

 

[biohazardman]

Thanks for the condolences. It really does suck to see a $500 worthless hunk of metal. I saw the pics of your BMC epoxy job and as hard as it may be to believe, my motor has MORE. The epoxy is a half inch thick and covers half the motor and completely covers the hole where the wire makes the 90* turn and to make it worse, it's an opaque epoxy so I can't see anything. I think I will try the dremel idea. I can't screw it up any worse than I already have (aside from dropping it of course).

You got the extra good epoxy job then probly should have charged you extra for that one. I used one of these bits and it werqed out pretty good.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/p3valvemod/valveportangleFIG302.jpg

Good luck

 

[grimbasement]

After 7 hours of working on this thing (about 45 minutes with the dremel and 6 hours of trying to fish the wires through the 90 degree turn) I got it put back together. what a PITA. I took it out for a spin and it worked for about 200 feet then there was a low hum/vibration I lost power then.... nothing. Dead, no power to the CA. I didn't have time to diagnose it (I was going to ride the bike to work). Hopefully I didn't blow out the controller or the BMS.

 

[grimbasement]

Welp, I don't think this hub is fixable (at least not by me) So because I liked the ride so much, I'm going to buy ANOTHER BMC hub motor but I'm going to get the 600 Watt v2 instead. Makes me sick to scrap a $500 motor after using it once, but I've wasted money on worse things before. I'm ordering just the motor and will have the new one laced up in my current wheel. So I'll get the newer hub and controller. Unfortunately, my plan to get a utility bike will have to wait a while now.

 

[Russell]

Put the damaged motor in the Items for Sale section, I'm sure somebody here can fix it.

-R

 

[biohazardman]

After 7 hours of working on this thing (about 45 minutes with the dremel and 6 hours of trying to fish the wires through the 90 degree turn) I got it put back together. what a PITA. I took it out for a spin and it worked for about 200 feet then there was a low hum/vibration I lost power then.... nothing. Dead, no power to the CA. I didn't have time to diagnose it (I was going to ride the bike to work). Hopefully I didn't blow out the controller or the BMS.

That really sucks. I am having an awful time with nearly anything considered e-bike related. Taking me many months to build bike two and bike one has broken 10 spokes, the controller has died twice, I was able to fix it both times though, the freewheel and throttle both had to be replaced. New battery has been a pain also. That was bike one in the first 2k mile learning curve. Next build should do better. Here’s your 600W you weren't watching close enough. ;^) Hope your next build goes a bit more smoothly.

 

[Toshi]

If I ever go 48v, I'm thinking two 12 ah packs and put em in panniers. Hey, panniers would protect that hub. 8)

The weight would also be lower.

exactly. i tried the top-of-rack mounting system as have many others and found it to be quite unusable. now my battery lives much closer to the ground in a pannier:

i also recommend upgrading to a center stand:

 

[grimbasement]

Status update. I ordered a new hub motor and one of the BMC "upgraded" controllers and was really excited about getting the bike put back together. But it is still very dead. I'm wondering if I blew my BCS on my Ping pack. I tested the battery with a multimeter and it read normal voltage but when I hook up the battery to either the controller or the CA I get nothing, no spark, no lights on the throttle, tried bypassing the CA nothing. The only thing I haven't tried is hooking the hub motor up directly to the battery. I guess it **could* be an issue with the power pole installation, but I don't think so. More diagnosing this evening, but frustration level is rising. If my first ride wasn't so cool I probably would have given up.