A
Molicell 2600mAh 18650... @ @ 5$/ cell.....
5$/9.3wH = $537/kWh. That is the retail price of a single Molicel P26A (2021-dated) - 35A 2600mAh 18650. 537$/kWh. this is why the 4200 interested me, the lower and competitive price per kWh.
Now dont get me wrong. If I could aford an 18650 pack I for sure woudl build one.. but I wont at 500$ + per kWh.
I build tool packs, and yes, a powerful cylindrical cell pack interests me for it is not bulky and if you can afford it it is a very long lasting option for a good ebike. I own a K-Weld and do tool packs... and would build with the cylindrical cell.. IF...
This is a popular powerful Vape cell. Recently tested by our friend Mooch. 537$ / kWh.. retail from a reliable source ( not fake or clones) . Molicel P26A 18650 2600mAh 35A Battery... 5$ ea.
https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/featured-products/products/molicel-p26a
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-test-results-molicel-p26a-2021-dated-35a-2600mah-18650.974009/?fbclid=IwAR3wY2CpQE_Mp9Kn_cum0_dbvHKMjVXptRH1JzQYjpfGEz03fAPGFYYzJAU
Hillhater said:
DogDipstick said:
I paid 140$ a kWh for ... 140$ a kWh. I bought 9.
Easy peasy to find if you know where to look, but no, not retail. I still had to chop them out the module. New, not salvage, not used, not an off brand, not a 2nd.
So this is a dealer stocked, spare module for a Chevy EV ?...Bolt, Spark, Volt ??
Why do you say “Available “, but not retail ? ..
....was this a special one off , or wholesale deal ?
First off, I am not just trying to be contrary.
This was a spare Chevrolet Volt module, half of the whole hybrid car battery. 8.9kWh. Purchased from a Chevrolet Dealer in Ohio. picked up with a freight pickup order in an Old Dominion Freight line truck. It was a " one off" because the dealer was out of business from the pandemic and was selling their inventory. I connected through Carpart.com. I say " available" because there are stores, dealerships and junkyards, all over carpart.com selling these things.. but you cannot go to some sort of retail store and pick a module off the shelves and go to the cash register and check it out.. I had to find.. line up, and pay, for the shipping.
I do not mind telling you what I paid, for I will be keeping them. I paid 1400$ for 88 cells delivered. $15.90 / 90 watt hour, 25Ah, 3.7Vn cell. I would have bought the whole thing if the back half had not already sold to another person. All 192 cells.
I could happily sell them for 20$ each if I was not building with them. This would be about 200$ / kWh.
You see Battery Clearing House having some wonderful cells nowadays for about 100$-200 per kWh. BHU too. You see them coming out.. you see the modules are popular, and some body will profit off our interests. Certainly moreso in the future.
8,900 watt hours of a p26A Molicell 18650 would cost ....~
$4,799$.. I paid
1400$ for a much more powerful and potentially longer lasting.. choice.
I cant kill em. They are downright hardy and ridiculously powerful, they never sag, go slow up a hill, get cranky, or out of balance, and I have not used a BMS in over a year. .. I am not alone too.. A kid came to me, was serious, asked me three days worth of questions.. Looked at my pics, took dimensions, asked more questions... bought a module, put it in his EV four wheeler.. and proceeded to be impressed by the power of the Volt cell since. He loves it. I walk about three or four people through what I know about this car pack every month. ....Lots come to me for info. I run 100A ( 4c) contin and they dont get warm.
.... just keep on going like that effing Energizer bunny pounding his drum.
Hillhater said:
A 4.2Ah cell has a capacity of 4.2Ah x 3.8v = 16 Wh. (0.016 kWh)
So yo would heed 63-63 cells for 1 kWh.
...even t $5 per cell that would imply $312 /kWh
PS...
And it was $140 /kWh for cells in a MODULE of several cells.
eMark said:
DogDipstick said:
The automotive consumer e-target is/was $60kWh to be competitive with ....
A 4200mAh cell of 3.6v nominal ( 4.2(aH) x 3.6(Vn) ) = 15.2 watt hours. A single gen4 Chevrolet Volt cell holds ~90 watt hours each.
What do you figure is the kWh rating of each of those 9 Chevy Volt cells ?
I purchased 88 cells, in a 44s, 162v nominal battery. 8,900 watt hours. Eight thousand, nine-hundred, watt hours. Half a 2019 pack. Came in a OEM GM box that said " Property of GM" and " MADE IN TE USA"... a very very fancy shipping box that bolted the modules down and straps closing the box and fancy warnings all over it... You can see the pack, labeling, and the embossed plastic ship container in the pic below....
The kWh number.... It is printed on a label on the side of the pack. By the factory. The factory is in Ohio. Where the modules were assy. The factory puts a sticker on teh modules, and teh pack as a whole, and tehy each have their own Chevrolet part numbers with Julian dates. A factory employee, is tasked with this chore, or a machine, that places this sticker, on the pack, before the pack is shipped out to its final destination. The sticker is probably printed on a roll in another part of the factory, using a computerized system.
I also test on my Powerlab to make sure they meet the mark.
Being you have yet to answer Hh's post it may be that your post is wishful thinking. Being you bought 9 Chevy Volt Li-ion cells is it possible for you to post a photo of 1 of those
IT WAS 88 cells, in a 8.9 kWh nominal config.... I have purchased over half a thousand of these ( Chev Volt) cells, and sold most of them..... Not very "wishfull"... But very easy actually. You only need to have money to purchase them, no wishful thinking involved.
Being as I have answered.
Would you like a photo of many cells? Here. I do have pics of like fifty or sixty sitting on tables, waiting for the sale.
So, 140$ a kWh is an unbelievable bargain considering ....
(YOU CAN ALSO CLEARLY SEE THE OEM "2kWh" LABEL ON THE EbAY PICTURE, and JULIAN DATE. IN the picture from eBay, that you posted.)
This Lithium Ion Chevy Volt 48V 2kWh Battery w/BMS is $590 on ebay ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275295587596?hash=item4018e54d0c:g:IRoAAOSwV51hdw1d
THIS module (the eBay module you linked... ) is actually overpriced, used, and no real history, with questionable specs... ( ripoff imho). It is one of the earliest modules, you can tell by the plate structure and color of the fiberglass plastic. I buy a kWh of those cells, used, ( early gen) for 80$ a kWh. He has a mid sized module in the pic... So that is 2kWh. You can get a 3kWh module form a later car pretty easy if you look, for that 600$ price for sure. Like I said, Art at Greentec advertises those 80$ modules on the ( this forum) forum in the for sale section. I show two ( 1kWh) early modules in the pic below.... Running my datalogger. Those were 80$ from Art. They are the LG P1 cell, a 14.5Ah cell that holds the least watt hours out of all the cells in the Volt. There were four revisions of the Chev Volt cell / pack choice. I have tested and used all four of those part numbers in ebike builds.
He really does not know what he is talking about. EVERY spec is wrong. They are NOT 17Ah ( really 14.5Ah) , nor from 2014, ( from 2012 or 2013) nor is it 50Ah oem. ( 45Ah oem) ... NOT LiMn2O4 with LiNiO2, ( they are lipos, not lions). ... NOT 48v nominal ( really 44v nom. )... Grrrrrr.... NOT 3s12p.. Jesus how could you get that wrong and have any sort of faith in your numbers. Lol.. This is why I do not buy off eBay. Noooope.
[Sic]
Go find the most expensive, lied about, Chevy Volt pack in the world....? and that is what ya got. Like going to out to eat... and expecting a Sirloin burger... and paying the prices of a of a Sirloin burger.. only to get home and find out the "burger" was really a McDonalds fish sandwich wrapped up in a burger wrapper..... Sold to you, for you thought, you were to get a savory Sirloin burger.. Plot twist.. It was really a McDonalds. Trying to rip you off and get as much money for their ( fake Sirloin) burger as they could (at that moment)... I use honest, reliable, business men, who run real " restaurants".. (dealerships)... And? When I pay for a Sirloin burger... that is what I get.. a Sirloin burger. I dont do "McDonalds" anymore.. (a stomach ache).
It is a 12s3p.. NOT a 3s 12p.. Bahahahahahahahahahah. He does not know what he got, .. Lol. Probally just knows they are popular, and sell, for powerwalls and ev diy builds ( like I do).
The cooling plates and teh orings have been removed, and a shipping band installed around the top to keep them together. Clearly shown. Someone has been inside that thing, and it can never go in a car again. Molested module for 600$, when you could buy a unmolested module of GEN2 cells for that price.
Lies, for sales, that pisses me off eternally.. He does not know at all what he got. Lol.
THIS GUY at least tells teh correct config, even though he lies about the capacity ( not 27Ah cell, but a 25Ah cell)... 600$.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224948157860?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3Db23f1560480a4ffab66552de0c3a15e7%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D275295587596%26itm%3D224948157860%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb%26brand%3DLG&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1
( I have tried to purchase, and have paid for, this particular module a couple of times.. but he keeps on cancelling the sale, for I am pretty sure he knows who i am, and that, i might prove his specs wrong and request a return.. or compensation.. for his lies: and uneducated, incorrect, ambiguous, description... ( ...that, which I would, do, given that chance.) The Chevy published data does not coincide with ANY of his data... and I have asked him about that, several times without response... in the past, through the eBay messenger.... )
They did discontinue every revision up to the rev.1.7 ( the program Chevy calls the newer Voltec replacement battery in the Volt.. the " 1.7 chemistry update" (denoting the LGX P1.7B cell used). This is what they put in the older cars nowadays, the earliest cell numbers were retired from the warranty program last year.
They range from about 60wH to 92wH per cell in the eight years of the car. I have a switchboard that holds the tower of power cells and the datalogger and a ton of Panduit alligator clip binding posts that I can configure for any sort of testing connected tot he chargers 40 pins, the balance x 32 and the main x 8 leads. Yes, it can be a rats nest of temporary wires for the test of mass sections of module or many cells at once.
.... a photo of 1 of those [pouch?] cells next to either an 1865 or 2170 cell so we can see the difference in size ?
Sure, I have tested over a thousand.... They are 0,25 x ~6 x ~10... If you really want a pic here you go.
Would be interesting to know how you went about testing the cells for c/d capacity, IR, etc.
I use a Revolectrix Powerlab, a four channel, 32s 5700w datalogger. I run it with 6kWh of the car cells. I can test up to 32 cells, or 32 groups of cells, in series, or not, at one time, up to 5700w ( 40A each, so yes I can do 1C testing of cycling charge/discharge on a datalog). Typical cycle is a charge from storage voltage, discharge cycle, charge cycle, discharge cycle, and back to storage voltage, all on a datalog. Logs each channel individually. Very clearly shows the collumbic efficiency and the IR, capacity, and curve, of the cell. All data can export to Excell for easy manipulation of the graphs if you dont want to use the Powerlab native graphing features ( Excell is better at this)... Real 1C rate determination through PID loop controlling the current...
Here is a pic of my initial testing when I got it. THIS is the entire VOLUME of 8.9kWh nominal, in the box. The very bottom pic also shows two ( 1kWh) early modules running channels 1 & 2 of the Powerlab..
So that is ~11 kWh (11,000 watt hours) in the lower pic, total.