Motor Stutters than nothing

[sflorlando]

Hello All,

Its funny how something that you know nothing about can become an obsession. Six months ago I have never even heard about Ebikes and now I am in the process of building one!

With a few individuals help on the forum (thanks Pure and Khris) I have put together a few parts.

72 40 amp infineon controller
Crystalyte HS3540
Cycle Analyst
66 volt 10 amp lipo pack
hyperion charger

All strapped to a Mongoose bike.

So this is where the non fun part begins. After plugging everything in...I assembled the family together and braced everyone for the dramatic event that was coming. With everyone watching I pushed the throttle and the motor turned the wheel a 1/4 inch and then nothing. Pressing it again the motor stuttered and then cut off again.

So this is what I have noticed. The Cycle Analyst shows 72 volts instead of the 66 volts that are wired to it. Going through the various CA screens I see the regen options. Regen starts at 0% and continues climbing till it reads 999.9%

Any thoughts?


Ken

 

[itchynackers]

Reminds me of this...

[youtube]URGY6zpWKio[/youtube]

Hope someone here can help.

 

[sflorlando]

It was a lot like that...minus the big win at the end.

I am thankful for two things.

1...No one has a clue that I have spent close to two grand on a pile of stuff that doesnt work
2....There were no cameras to record the failed attempt.

 

[itchynackers]

Was it running before you assembled the family? If it hasn't ever run yet, best to verify the phase/hall combination. May need to try another combo. If it was running, then it sounds like a wire it cut/disconnected or grounding out, probably near/in the axle.

Edit: Also, just start with the essential items (no CA, cruise, etc..) Just plug in the battery, throttle, and motor to the controller. We can add the other items after you are running.

 

[sflorlando]

Thanks!

no it has never ran yet. As soon as time permits I will check the phase hall combination and strip it all down to nothing but the bare essentials.

Ken

 

[Kingfish]

Try this:
Make sure that your Phase/HE signal wires are mapped correctly to the Controller. You should have three colors: Yellow, Blue, and Green. I don’t own a Crystalyte hub, and I don’t know the seller of the Controller, so you will need to sort this out.

Here’s a clue:
From the Controller, you need to find out what are the colors for Channel A, B, and C. Then you need to map that to the Hub motor; the colors may not match but it doesn’t matter. What’s important is that you have Channel-A on the controller map to Channel-A on the hub and so forth. The seller of this equipment should provide you with a guide. If not – there are plenty of folks here that can help you out. And also, here’s a resource to peruse:

• Known to Work Brushless Motor/Controller Wiring Diagrams

Good hunting, KF

 

[Beavinator]

Yes you definately have the wrong hall/phase wire combo. You have to keep switching them until you get the right combination. One thing to note is dont hammer the throttle when testing combinations, just give it a very light throttle or you might blow the controller.

 

[neptronix]

I had this exact problem when one of my hall sensor wires went disconnected ( bad crimping on the controller ).

 

[sflorlando]

Ya everything is pointing to the hall sensors. Sometimes it seems like it tries to go forward and sometimes it tries to go backwards.

 

[sflorlando]

whats the best way to fix this?

 

[sflorlando]

 

[Kingfish]

Gosh, if you R E A L L Y want to fix this correctly, open up the controller and find out the colors for each channel. I am certain someone has mapped the Crystalyte hub already.

I just repaired a frayed phase wire on Thursday and documented it on this thread. From my notes (unpublished) the colors from my controller were as follows…

HE connector:

• Red = +5V
  Yel = SA
  Blu = SB
  GRN = SC
  Blk = GND

From the image of the pigtails of your controller, your mapping could be presumed as follows…

HE connector:

• Red = +5V
  GRN = SA
  Blu = SB
  Yel = SC
  Blk = GND

The only way to know for certain though is to open up the controller and visually inspect both the phase and HE pads; they must be in parity. If not, denote the actual colors for each.

We then need to figure out the color mapping for the hub; I’m still searching for this. Someone posted a thread on ES that has pictures of the hub but not the mapping: Crystalyte hs-3540 motor destroyed

ADDENDUM: Reference another ES thread - phase wiring help needed

~KF

 

[sflorlando]

Thanks Kingfish.

I sent an email to ebikes.ca to ask for assistance/diagrams.

 

[dogman dan]

In the one photo, the phase wire anderson housings are not all lined up. The one that is backed up a bit could be not making contact. It could be just that simple.

This is a kit from grin? it should be that all your colors match. so confirm that it does that at all plugs. I'm seeing one phase plug that is y b g and the other is y g b. Bet that is the problem. But it could be, that that swap is needed for that brand motor with that controller. Grin can verify the order you should have, and then the same order should be done to the halls wires too.

 

[sflorlando]

Ya it was a kit from ebikes.ca

The connections are all snug so it must be wired incorrectly.

Before I open up the controller and take a look at the cables I want to hear back from grim.

I was hoping to avoid all this since I bought the complete kit from them.

 

[Kingfish]

Ja. From the controller, I see YEL-BLU-GRN, but from the hub it's YEL-GRN-BLU. Goofy. I don't understand why those folks didn't configure it for you.

Life doesn't need to be this difficult.
~KF

 

[amberwolf]

If it's from Grin / ebikes.ca, it almost certainly *is* already configured correctly. Different colors on motor vs controller is perfectly normal.

I suspect it is a problem with a connection between things, like a pin that is backed out of a connector just a bit; something not touching. Most likely on the hall connector plug, as I have had that problem with those styles of plugs on both halls and throttles, for instance.

 

[Beavinator]

If you got the kit from Justin at e-bikes the colors wont necessarily all be the same color but they should be already in the right combination that works. This is only true if you bought both the controller and motor from them. Then they will set it up so that when you connect the motor and controller they work properly.

 

[sflorlando]

I recieved an email from Justin yesterday and am workign with him on it.

Will keep you informed!

thanks

 

[Pure]

So this is what I have noticed. The Cycle Analyst shows 72 volts instead of the 66 volts that are wired to it. Going through the various CA screens I see the regen options. Regen starts at 0% and continues climbing till it reads 999.9%

Any thoughts?


Ken

One thing you need to double check is the voltage reading with a volt meter. I know the older CAs need to be calibrated (I'm not at all familiar with the newer ones) but it's been so long, I don't remember if this calibration will effect the voltage reading. In any case, You're running 18S and charged at 4.15V per cell should read 74.7 volts hawt off the charger.

You never did confirm with me how you were going to cycle test your cells prior to putting them together. If you haven't tested them and have a lower voltage than you should, then you could possibly have a bad cell or two.

 

[sflorlando]

My battery setup consists of 66v 15AH 18s 3p or will soon as I get another battery pack. Right now it is 66v 10 ah.

Perhaps I over charged them.

Havent thought about the discharging method. What would you recommend?

 

[amberwolf]

My battery setup consists of 66v 15AH 18s 3p or will soon as I get another battery pack. Right now it is 66v 10 ah.

Perhaps I over charged them.

Not likely. See this quote:

In any case, You're running 18S and charged at 4.15V per cell should read 74.7 volts hawt off the charger.

 

[Pure]

Like AW said, most likely not overchargeing them. More likely undercharged or bad cells. Hobby King has a small failure rate and all of their cells should be tested prior to pack assembly. Weeding out the bogus cells now will save you a shit load of headache and possible fire damage later down the road. But seeing as you are using the hyperion charger, I would bet on a bad cell or 2 vs not charging up to set spec voltage. That is unless you didn't set the charger right. Either way, it should be looked at and addressed.

For testing, go get you some 12 volt halogen bulbs from the auto store and string up a 24 volt string of lights. You can mount them or let them hang but keep in mind they are going to get HOT. Then run each 6s pack through a couple of series of charge and discharge cycles. This should get you started..others can give better advice on actually testing lipo as I'm just regurgitating what I've read.

 

[Gordo]

Disappointing for sure, but don't worry. You have bought from a good source with great support. They will solve the problem as soon as they get back to work. They are no doubt enjoying the somewhat rare beautiful sunshine, on this their day off.

 

[sflorlando]

thanks Guys.

I am confident Justin can help me out with this.

Ken