muxus 3000 chugging ?

[999zip999]

This motor needs 20ah. At 100 wh/mi. It's a battery drain. Lots of fun. Still don't know what the problem was, but the problem is in the box back to Teslanv. I replaced two halls, maybe the third hall or the wire harness ??? Or a stator problem ??? Many many hours and days. Now I need two 36v 10a chargers to keep up with it. These is with a 40amp controller. How would a real controller at 80amp or more drain.

 

[arkmundi]

Glad you've reached this juncture for resolution & sorry it all had to go down like that. :?

I'm really happy with my MAC/Trek at 1000 watts of power and a 48V A123 prismatic battery. And I haven't invested any more time or money on the MXUS, yet. I was on the verge of buying my MAC when the MXUS group order came along. Since the opportunity presented itself. Pause... then, WTF, went ahead with my MAC/Trek build. Pause... maybe put the MXUS on a wheel and try it out on the Trek, same controller - the Infineon 12fet 4110? Its rated up to 90V 40A with a typical 36-72V operation. Figure I could operate safely with a 72V A123 prismatic and this controller. My battery is 4x 8S 24V, so easy to variously reconfigure. Pause.... all this consideration and do I want to bother? If I'm always going to throttle back to 30mph anyway, for safety considerations.

I'm in no hurry for the moment. But what's clear is that to run the MXUS, it'll need an enhanced everything, from frame to controller to battery to brakes. It'll have to have a beefy battery pack to be useful. So a lot more time & money. Pause...

 

[Icewrench]

Good to hear that you are able to ride chug chug free.

Run it hard real hard.
Does the controller or motor heat up.
Does it cause a grin?

 

[999zip999]

I just tested Paul's 12fet.controller on a prodecotech d.d. I would guess all the Muxus d.d. have the same wire combo.Ark I wonder if your controller for the mac has the same motor wire combo or if he flipped the wires insiders. Meaning does Paul have two 12fet controllers that look the same but wires swap different on the inside ?

 

[wesnewell]

After riding another 10 miles today I came to the conclusion that the hall/phase wires had to be wrong. It just used too much battery power for that distance. And a quick ride on my 1000W bike was so much quieter. Anyway, they were not right. After testing, this appears to be the correct hookup to the 72V 1500W Hua Tong controller.
Phase and hall wire hookups to 72V 1500W 40A Hua Tong controller.
GM motor
Controller Motor
Hall
Y G
G Y
B B
Phase
Y G
G Y
B B

MXUS 3000 motor
Controller Motor
Hall
Y B
B Y
G G
Phase
Y B
B Y
G G

Got dark and cold outside so haven't given it a test ride yet, but I'm sure I got it right this time. Will update tomorrow. I don't know what possessed me to think it was the same as the GM motor.

 

[999zip999]

I mean the color match for a Paul 12 fet and muxus 3,000, 9c 2810, prodecto 500 d.d. and Paul's muxus d.d.

 

[wesnewell]

Quick follow up. I'm kind of underwhelmed with the max speed. 37mph was all I could get out of it. I get more than that out of my 1000W motor on the same 24s lipo battery pack and 40A controller model. It does get up to speed a lot quicker though.

 

[arkmundi]

96 volt battery and a 100 amp controller and I'm sure it'll top 50 mph. Which I'm still toying with as a possibility.

 

[teslanv]

Quick follow up. I'm kind of underwhelmed with the max speed. 37mph was all I could get out of it. I get more than that out of my 1000W motor on the same 24s lipo battery pack and 40A controller model. It does get up to speed a lot quicker though.

Wes,
Can you do me a favor and verify the no load rpm on your motor? It kinda sounds like you have a slow wind... The 4T should give you 9 RPM per volt.

 

[wesnewell]

just ordered laser tach. I don't know if my wheel is balanced enough to get it to max speed without shaking it apart, but I'll try. May be a good time to true the wheel better. I'm only getting about 450rpm loaded. That's with true 28" diameter tires (26*4.0)

 

[teslanv]

just ordered laser tach. I don't know if my wheel is balanced enough to get it to max speed without shaking it apart, but I'll try. May be a good time to true the wheel better. I'm only getting about 450rpm loaded. That's with true 28" diameter tires (26*4.0)

My Calculator says you should be seeing around 810 RPM at 90V unloaded, which results in an unloaded speed of 67.5 MPH.

In comparison, a 5T would give you 648 RPM and a 6T would give you 540 RPM at 90V unloaded.

I would wager that you either have a false positive Phase-Halls combo, or you accidentally ended up with a 6T winding.
What is your No Load Current?
And is your controller running HOT or COLD at 100% throttle?

 

[999zip999]

Just gave it a trial run 37-38mph @ 3200watts 0r 80v x 42 amps 12 fet. 5T. Thanks for the great service Teslanv. The old stator is boxed up as the fedex guy is near.

 

[arkmundi]

You get this thing fixed? Awesome! Would love to know what the final diagnosis is of what went wrong. Did you replace the entire stator assembly? So all the wiring? Then we don't know. What happens to the old stator? Does it go back to MXUS for replacement? Can we get a summary on this? Thanks.

37-38mph @ 3200watts 0r 80v x 42 amps 12 fet. 5T

That just doesn't cut it for me. I can get 28-31 mpth @ 2000 watts on 52V x 40 amps 12fet on my MAC. I need at least 45 mph or the MXUS is just not worth the extra trouble & investment.

 

[Icewrench]

Teslanv borrowed a stator from me to send to zip man.
Sounds like it worked out.

 

[teslanv]

You get this thing fixed? Awesome! Would love to know what the final diagnosis is of what went wrong. Did you replace the entire stator assembly? So all the wiring? Then we don't know. What happens to the old stator? Does it go back to MXUS for replacement? Can we get a summary on this? Thanks.

37-38mph @ 3200watts 0r 80v x 42 amps 12 fet. 5T

That just doesn't cut it for me. I can get 28-31 mpth @ 2000 watts on 52V x 40 amps 12fet on my MAC. I need at least 45 mph or the MXUS is just not worth the extra trouble & investment.

I will assess the Problems with the Stator and post my findings. MXUS has agreed to replace any faulty parts, so I just have to tell them what is the problem.

As far as Speed, this will ultimately be based on the Winding you chose. Arkmundi, you bought a 5T like Zip, which is a 7.2Kv winding. For Higher Speeds, you will need to increase the voltage and/or increase the tire size to get to 45 MPH. Increasing the Controller FET's will give you more current which will help with loaded top speed, but at the risk of overheating the windings. Another option is to get a FOC sine wave controller (Field Weakening) to get above 100% speeds. You may also want to play with the 120% Speed option on your Infineon to see how that improved overall speed, but I don't think it works as well as Field Weakening.

The other option is to change to a different winding like a 4T, which has a higher Kv (9 RPM per Volt).

 

[999zip999]

Ark on my hill up from the beach I went 16-19mph with 2810 30a 2,200 watts. Same hill 5t 3,200 watts 29-30 mph on same hill so flat speed or hill speed and cool motor. This the trade off. Fast motor will work on the hill but will slow down after a while and heat up faster at that time. For soft wet sand a slower wind ect.

 

[teklektik]

Just gave it a trial run 37-38mph @ 3200watts 0r 80v x 42 amps 12 fet. 5T.

This doesn't sound quite right....

It should take about 1950W (motor power) to propel a 235lb mtn bike at 38mph.
If it's taking 3200W battery power, then your bike is running at something like:

• Efficiency = Pout/Pin = 1950W/3200W = 61%

Seems you should be closer to 80%...

Are you sure your phase wiring is correct?

 

[arkmundi]

The other option is to change to a different winding like a 4T, which has a higher Kv (9 RPM per Volt).

Is that an option? Thought I was stuck with the 5T. FYI, I haven't touched it - still in the box. Can trade down?

 

[John in CR]

Fast motor will work on the hill but will slow down after a while and heat up faster at that time.

No it won't heat up faster. Producing the same torque (ie same speed) up the hill, the fast motor will produce exactly the same heat in the windings. Voltage, top speed capacity, etc are irrelevant, because they are the same motor and the controller and load force the phase current to produce the same result despite how the same amount of copper is wrapped around the teeth. Justin agrees, LFP agrees, Miles agrees, along with anyone else who understands the topic.

 

[999zip999]

Mtb 230lb. ? I wish. I weigh 225lb. Plus 85lb bike. So 310lb. Loaded. Maybe my little boss at the ebike store. I told to be careful as popped a wheelie. He could go 42mph if.wasn't scared.

 

[999zip999]

So what's the reason for a 3t and 5t just to go slower. Yes yes I did read yours and justin posts. But wouldn't all motors be 3t which they said ( muxus ) posted .

 

[teklektik]

Mtb 230lb. ? I wish. I weigh 225lb. Plus 85lb bike. So 310lb. Loaded.

Weight plays a much reduced role at those speeds (on the flat). Aero-drag overwhelms rolling resistance.
From the simulator - less than 2000W motor power for your 310lb rig:


Dunno - something seems wonky.....

 

[teslanv]

The other option is to change to a different winding like a 4T, which has a higher Kv (9 RPM per Volt).

Is that an option? Thought I was stuck with the 5T. FYI, I haven't touched it - still in the box. Can trade down?

If you are willing to pay the shipping, I would do a trade.

 

[teklektik]

Great support teslanv!

Perhaps this might be helpful for some:



EDIT - teslanv has cooked some additional interesting plots available here...

 

[teslanv]

Fast motor will work on the hill but will slow down after a while and heat up faster at that time.

No it won't heat up faster. Producing the same torque (ie same speed) up the hill, the fast motor will produce exactly the same heat in the windings. Voltage, top speed capacity, etc are irrelevant, because they are the same motor and the controller and load force the phase current to produce the same result despite how the same amount of copper is wrapped around the teeth. Justin agrees, LFP agrees, Miles agrees, along with anyone else who understands the topic.

^^^ All true. The thing to note, however is that the controller will be working harder to push more phase amps to the higher Kv motor at starts and hills. A Higher Current rated controller will be more able to handle the required phase current. The phase wires will also see more current, and would benefit from upgrading as well. So there are certainly some trade-offs by going with a higher Kv wind.

Higher speed just requires more power period.