My kick scooter project

[Ianhill]

All I can assume and makes since to me is that because each strand is insulated from eachother with enamel the multiple thin wires are acting as single turns grouped in parallel so each slot see say 10-15 thin wires turned 8 times for 80-130 turns (estimate) of thin gauge wire rather than say 8 turns of thick strands per slot.

It just clicked in my head what needs to be done now slightly thicker strand to up the current handling and more turns to lower the kV so for a multistrand it's either slightly thicker and another turn or slightly thicker and add one more strand that will make a motor similar to factory that handle a fraction more power.

 

[ElectricGod]

All I can assume and makes since to me is that because each strand is insulated from eachother with enamel the multiple thin wires are acting as single turns grouped in parallel so each slot see say 10-15 thin wires turned 8 times for 80-130 turns (estimate) of thin gauge wire rather than say 8 turns of thick strands per slot.

It just clicked in my head what needs to be done now slightly thicker strand to up the current handling and more turns to lower the kV so for a multistrand it's either slightly thicker and another turn or slightly thicker and add one more strand that will make a motor similar to factory that handle a fraction more power.

Many small wires in parallel act as a single large wire. There's no electrical difference. Where it matters is in how much copper you can fit in each tooth. A large wire takes up less space than does the same amount of copper in several small strands. Use larger wire rather than many small strands. You will be running wires in parallel anyway, you might as well use large gauge wire so that you are filling each tooth as efficiently as possible.

 

[Ianhill]

I don't think I will have to do a rewind now as I have two working boma motors so I'm thinking off making a dual motor setup possibly gauging it out in my head, but I will have to get a small rc motor a few different thickness of copoer and have a experement rewinding with it.one day when I got time.

 

[ElectricGod]

I don't think I will have to do a rewind now as I have two working boma motors so I'm thinking off making a dual motor setup possibly gauging it out in my head, but I will have to get a small rc motor a few different thickness of copoer and have a experement rewinding with it.one day when I got time.

Multi motor setup would be cool. I'd like to do something like that eventually. Acceleration would be stellar. my idea is to take 4+ hybrid car motors and run them all in parallel on the same shaft. Those motors are usually about 2" thick so stacking 3 or 4 of them back to back would be about the length of a BOMA, but lots more diameter. I would then get a small car like a Mini and make it into a rocket.

 

[Ianhill]

Haha I like the idea, Have you seen the flux capacitor car its small and shocking fast too few decent production short vids on YouTube of it.

 

[ElectricGod]

Haha I like the idea, Have you seen the flux capacitor car its small and shocking fast too few decent production short vids on YouTube of it.

The Flux is like taking a smart car and making it super fast. I think I would want to start with a chassis that's a little better than that POS. That and he's using brushed motors...meh.

 

[Ianhill]

Lol I wouldn't call it a POS its unpractical but it will beat most things down the 1/4 mile but different strokes for different folks as you say and the original Tesla on steroids be more my bag.
I don't mind brushed motors are you can tell, I've done 40miles on the brushless now and it is better quieter and more revs available but I can not tell on the torque just yet as the current disadvantage means its weak at 1600w compared to the 3kw brushed might of the razor it feels around half, which would make them comparable on torque when i turn it up hopefully but the light rotor of the brushless will pull away top end.

 

[ElectricGod]

Lol I wouldn't call it a POS its unpractical but it will beat most things down the 1/4 mile but different strokes for different folks as you say and the original Tesla on steroids be more my bag.
I don't mind brushed motors are you can tell, I've done 40miles on the brushless now and it is better quieter and more revs available but I can not tell on the torque just yet as the current disadvantage means its weak at 1600w compared to the 3kw brushed might of the razor it feels around half, which would make them comparable on torque when i turn it up hopefully but the light rotor of the brushless will pull away top end.

You were running 3kw on the brushed motor? Yeah...the brushless motor isn't going to compete with that. Of course upping the voltage and current to it will help too.

 

[Ianhill]

Yeah its been at 12s 60amp for well over 500 miles with the heat sink on the side it runs flatout no problems the heat seems to come out when I stop, the brushes and commuter wear are minimal too.

 

[ElectricGod]

Yeah its been at 12s 60amp for well over 500 miles with the heat sink on the side it runs flatout no problems the heat seems to come out when I stop, the brushes and commuter wear are minimal too.

That's awesome! I would not have expected it to take the abuse for that long.

 

[ElectricGod]

I realized I didn't have any current pics of my scooter so here are some for your viewing pleasure! It's sitting on the stand I made for working on it. This allows me to get the wheels off the floor so I can check that the brakes aren't dragging and can spin up the motor. Ignore the junk in the background, my work room in my house is always a wreck. OOH! look! it's the extra 20S LION battery pack I'm not using in the background. The back wheel looks like its at an odd angle, but that's just because it's hanging rather than sitting on the floor. When I'm not riding the back deck leans back deliberately a little, but with my weight on the deck, everything sits pretty level with the ground. The black box over the rear wheel is the enclosure for the 6 20S2P LION battery holders that are filled with used laptop cells. The black and red wires coming out the front of the box are power going into the power buss inside the main battery box. The battery box over the back wheel is held shut by 2 security torx screws in the front and a hidden piano hinge in the back. I'm running out of things to do to this machine other than just maintain it. I have a new level ground top speed I would like to achieve...60mph, but that's about it and that's just messing with phase current and motor sprockets. I'll probably buy better wheel bearings after a while. The ones that came in the new wheels are not very good.

I got the new front wheel completed over the weekend and today was the first time to ride on it. I could immediately tell it was balanced and round and NOT wobbly like the factory crap wheels. The original brake rotors are 140mm and 2mm thick. The new rotors are 4mm thick and 155mm. My original hydraulic brakes wont open up enough for the 4mm thickness and the pads on them wear out super fast since they are so small. I have to replace the pads every 3-4 months. Fortunately they are uber cheap out of China! The new brake pads have easily 4X the surface area. The original rims are 1.5" wide at the bead. The new wheels are 2.5" at the bead. That should make side to side tire wobble virtually nil...never mind the much better tires. Riding with the new wheel on the front feels kind of weird. The back end feels sloppy compared to the front end. With the wider rims, the speedo magnet is much closer to the sensor so I took a neo magnet and JB welded it to the inside of the rim. Looking at the wear on the front rotor you can see that the brake pads are dead center on the rotor. That new wheel looks so nice on the scooter!

I'm waiting for a 50 tooth 219 sprocket to go on the back wheel that bolts to those 3 holes. It's currently getting cut for me by LightingRods and will cost something like $25. I'll need to make a new bracket for the back wheel brake caliper which will be replaced with one like the front wheel has.

 

[Ianhill]

Fair play too you 60mph will be flying along it would be highway worthy and to do it on a scooter is crazy stuff pushing the limit fairplay that will be a world record for a stand on surely.

 

[ElectricGod]

Fair play too you 60mph will be flying along it would be highway worthy and to do it on a scooter is crazy stuff pushing the limit fairplay that will be a world record for a stand on surely.

Why not? I've done 58mph down a hill. I'm just wanting another 2mph and that on level ground. The motor I am currently using can handle it. I'm running at 3500 watts now and it warms up to 150F. If I up the phase current to 100% and use a larger motor sprocket, 60 mph wont be a problem. The sprockets are on the way to me now. I already have the new back wheel which will help stability a lot and that's about it.

 

[Ianhill]

No reasons why not when you got a big block stretch its legs , 40mph is my goal for nw but I need to improve my stability too i wont get there on my off road tyres without premature life failure.

 

[ElectricGod]

No reasons why not when you got a big block stretch its legs , 40mph is my goal for nw but I need to improve my stability too i wont get there on my off road tyres without premature life failure.

Your scooter is much smaller than mine. 40mph might be crazy fast for that platform. Still...I suggest pushing its limits. Street tires will help your stability issues, but are your wheels round and wobble free?

 

[Ianhill]

I know they are only light aluminium but my rims seem fairly round when i spin them they run true to the eye and the bearings hold them solid but the tyre is flat on top like a car tyre :/ (silly) so the smallest turning input and its on the side of the tread and strays about feels awful on road, On my razor the rear rim has took a knock its easy to see when I rev it flatout on a stand the tyre bounces up and down over 10mm but it has been up the mountain a lot so there's no point fixing it will only bend again the way I use it.

 

[ElectricGod]

I know they are only light aluminium but my rims seem fairly round when i spin them they run true to the eye and the bearings hold them solid but the tyre is flat on top like a car tyre :/ (silly) so the smallest turning input and its on the side of the tread and strays about feels awful on road, On my razor the rear rim has took a knock its easy to see when I rev it flatout on a stand the tyre bounces up and down over 10mm but it has been up the mountain a lot so there's no point fixing it will only bend again the way I use it.

Ehh! flat tires on a 2 wheeled machine is nuts. Everyone knows you have to bank into turns. Yes!!! You definitely need round tires. That rim is going to get you some day when it falls apart. I would try to find a better rim before that one gets you hurt. By the way, better tires add rigidity to the wheel. That ought to help in keeping you from bending a wheel.

 

[Ianhill]

Ive got my eye on some billet rims for a mini moto thats a straight swap but they are expensive they are on my list but few other things first.

 

[ElectricGod]

Ive got my eye on some billet rims for a mini moto thats a straight swap but they are expensive they are on my list but few other things first.

I found your tire size multiple times on ebay in what you need for $20 per tire. I know this specific auction is in California, but they are readily available for hardly any money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-65-6-5-Tire-Tubeless-47cc-49cc-MINI-POCKET-BIKE-MINI-MOTO-M-TR29-/230711574734?hash=item35b77b40ce:g:yTAAAOSwEeFVUqox&vxp=mtr

 

[Ianhill]

Yeah the UK is flooded with them, slicks or treaded I think the rears maybe a bit too wide and foul the chain may have to use fronts all round.

 

[ElectricGod]

New parts coming and other changes...

I've posted pics of the new wheels. The front wheel is in place, but the back wheel is waiting for a new sprocket to arrive. It's a few days away yet. It bolts directly to the new back wheel rather than using a free wheel so I will start using regen after that. I also have received a new brake caliper for the back wheel so the much smaller hydraulic back brake caliper will get replaced with a much beefier caliper. I've also taken apart the entire rear section and replaced the flimsy steel brackets for the back deck with much stronger ones. They were never intended to hold up under the load I was putting them through. I had to grind off one of the brackets because it was too close to the motor sprocket and another of them had broken off. Also the original brackets were too short and of differing heights so I had added a stack of washers to level each one and to get the front adapter block high enough to clear the motor. The new brackets span across the top of the motor and are level and high enough to clear the motor. They bolt on rather than welded on. I might change that once I get the chance to buy a TIG welder. Since I had the back end all taken apart anyway, I sand blasted it back to bare metal and repainted it blue. There were lots of scratches and dings in the paint and I have made several mods on the back section so it needed to be repainted anyway. The new blue is a close match to the old blue, just brighter since it's not faded yet from a year+ of use. I've also made some minor changes to the battery box to make it a bit stronger.

Pictures to come later...

 

[ElectricGod]

I forgot about the motor bracket. Its 2 thicknesses of 1/8" aluminum. This is the forward side of the bracket where all the motor torque is held down to the scooter frame. It has been bending under the motor torque so I added another thickness of aluminum on this side of the bracket. This bracket used to be flat and now you can see it has a slight bow to it.

New hardware ready to get put together. That bow in the right most blue bracket is to keep it clear of the motor sprocket which extends a little over the back frame.

New rear brake caliper.

Repainted back assembly.

The scooter with the back end removed. It sure looks weird this way!

 

[Ianhill]

Gets some good loving that scooter will have no trouble stopping and thats some good frame bending torque by there sure I mentioned that way back in the thread could see she be a handful. I've looked into using air adjustable dampers from pitbikes the mounts would have to be moved to 200mm spacing but it would be squeak free adjustable damping extended smooth travel then, its the front end that bothers me most, I've been thinking hard how to resolve this and I'm thinking of making custom yokes and using pitbike up side down forks then, lots of adjustable travel front and rear but it all costs money and got to get in line with other mods like Order a second controller cut the back frame and add new mounts for two motors clean looking as I can with a 38 tooth rear and 11 tooth both motors and run them 16s 40ish amp's for a 5-6kw total output.

 

[ElectricGod]

Gets some good loving that scooter will have no trouble stopping and thats some good frame bending torque by there sure I mentioned that way back in the thread could see she be a handful. I've looked into using air adjustable dampers from pitbikes the mounts would have to be moved to 200mm spacing but it would be squeak free adjustable damping extended smooth travel then, its the front end that bothers me most, I've been thinking hard how to resolve this and I'm thinking of making custom yokes and using pitbike up side down forks then, lots of adjustable travel front and rear but it all costs money and got to get in line with other mods like Order a second controller cut the back frame and add new mounts for two motors clean looking as I can with a 38 tooth rear and 11 tooth both motors and run them 16s 40ish amp's for a 5-6kw total output.

I wanted to go with gas shocks too, but they are pretty expensive. Even cheap adjustable gas shocks are like $100+ each in the lengths I need. I keep going with the cheap Chinese spring shocks because they cost $15 each. Yeah...everything costs money! I try to do as much as I can on the cheap, but that often times means less than wonderful performance. Those Chinese shocks work, but they are not great. Like you, I'm tight at times too.

Dual motors...LOL and 5-6kW...well I'm gonna be jelly! I'll have to up my phase amps. My controller can deliver almost 10kW phase amps continuous but my batteries can only deliver about 4kW. I'm working on getting more laptop cells and then I will be able to up my current significantly. My 3 LIPO packs are getting old and deliver less and less all the time. I need to replace them with more laptop LION cells.

 

[Ianhill]

5-6kw in your beast will leave mine when its done standing, I'll have double the losses lower efficency and you run a meatier chain set up no need to up the amps I'll be in the dust anyway.

Mine has no freewheel direct to the sprocket and it does roll really well I'm surprised but I can't adjust the braking, I imagine u can play with the regen current to get a nice feel.