New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[groundproximity]

Methods,

I expected, that the "test rig on 66V 10Ah lipo with 100A current limit" would need some extra heavy duty dual torque arm setup or so... but i guess then i´m fine with my setup.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Hyena]

I just put a nearly a full 10ah through my HS35 on 18S with a 100a limit. The stock phase wires got nice and toasty, up to 55 degrees. I dont have an internal temp sensor in this motor but I reckon it was getting near to cooked - the motor side covers and magnet ring got 80 degrees C with no air cooling holes so it was definitely much hotter inside. I will admit, I was riding it harder than I normally do, trying to see just how hot it'd get in stock form and also trying to drain my new 10ah pack as quickly as possible to test a new soft LVC. This involved alot of riding up steep hills pulling 60-80 amps continuously for a minute or so each time (normally I'd only sustain those sort of currents in ~ 10 second bursts. 500m away from home and 9.5ah in it started to get a hall like stutter so I pedalled the rest of the way. It seemed to have gone away by the time I got back to my driveway but now 10 minutes later it's back. Dunno if its halls, the wiring or a fet (only a 12 fet controller so it's pushed to the limit running 100a sustained), kinda feels like it could be any of the above. I don't know which I'm looking forward to replacing least!

 

[Arlo1]

I just put a nearly a full 10ah through my HS35 on 18S with a 100a limit. The stock phase wires got nice and toasty, up to 55 degrees. I dont have an internal temp sensor in this motor but I reckon it was getting near to cooked - the motor side covers and magnet ring got 80 degrees C with no air cooling holes so it was definitely much hotter inside. I will admit, I was riding it harder than I normally do, trying to see just how hot it'd get in stock form and also trying to drain my new 10ah pack as quickly as possible to test a new soft LVC. This involved alot of riding up steep hills pulling 60-80 amps continuously for a minute or so each time (normally I'd only sustain those sort of currents in ~ 10 second bursts. 500m away from home and 9.5ah in it started to get a hall like stutter so I pedalled the rest of the way. It seemed to have gone away by the time I got back to my driveway but now 10 minutes later it's back. Dunno if its halls, the wiring or a fet (only a 12 fet controller so it's pushed to the limit running 100a sustained), kinda feels like it could be any of the above. I don't know which I'm looking forward to replacing least!

How hot is your controller? Mine gets how ~60 amps sustained! What type of 12 fet? Who built it? What settings? Im running 20s 15 ah through a HS35 with holes for now and fans on their way.

 

[Hyena]

Just pulled the motor off nad it looks like it's the wiring that's chewed through again. F*ck these bloody Hx motors!! :x

I think the groove in the axle just isn't deep enough, I'm going to try and dremel it deeper while it's open this time. Ideally some thin metal collar that could slip down over the axle and hold the wire in tight would be the best but I'm sure I'm unlikely to find something small enough to work.

Arlo, the controller is a 4110 12 fet infineon, with heavily beefed up traces, 12ga phase and 10ga power wires - a Hyena Electric Bikes special

With the modded shunt the software is programmed for 30a battery and 75a phase current but the battery current is actually peaking at 100a so the phase current is really on the edge for a 12 fet. It pulls like a freight train and has great torque for lifting the front end over rough stuff but I really should back it off a bit because the controller will spit a fet pretty soon if i leave it as is.

 

[full-throttle]

You got to remove the seal right from the start and make a fingernail insert to protect the wires. rebelpilot had the original idea but deleted his posts..

I've been using one of the very first prototypes of the motor. The only writing on the spider is a single letter 'S' for 'speed'. The axle is not keyed as on other prototypes. The groove on the axle accepted 10 gauge (2.5mm) teflon phase wires with thin (1.0mm) teflon hall wires with a bit of a squeeze. Phase wires still get warm running on 70A. The stator measured ~33mm.

 

[Bazaki]

I've been riding about 1000 miles with the HS with the original phasewires, but I like the idea to install 3 x 10awg wires inside, what is the trick ?
The original wires do get warm but still survived all my abusing at 80 amp bursts.

Removing the seal ok, but any other tips and tricks people want to share ?
I'm afraid, 3 x 10awg will be to wide and touch the spinning motor and cut so isolation.

Maybe 3x 12awg, but I don't that's no improvement to the original wires.

 

[wojtek]

i have been testing the HS3540 for a short while now OFFROAD on my steintrike mungo sport

prob around 100km+. Recently i got more confident with high speeds so have been abusing it more

with 44v25 lipos /40a sensorless , on various terrain from fire roads to technical single tracks [hardcore on a trike!] and rough terrain, various weather conditions - very muddy and wet most of the time recently.

The motor is holding up very well, it is a stock model WITHOUT any modifications. I am very happy with it. Piece of mind that there are no gear that could break makes me abuse it even more
Sometimes got stuck on the hill, the wheel spinning in the mud but finally catching a grip and all that sh*t.

The motor gets hot [still can touch it for couple seconds before it burns my fingers. But it is only 44v nominal. Planning to go to 66v

 

[full-throttle]

I'm afraid, 3 x 10awg will be to wide and touch the spinning motor and cut so isolation.

OD of the 10 gauge wire is 3.5mm. Axle groove is 7.5mm wide x 5mm deep. It's a tight squeeze. Use a block of wood to pack them into the groove. Fingernail is a a SS shim.

Original wire is ~2mm OD

Here's a pic showing the difference in wire sizes

 

[rebelpilot]

View attachment 1

10mm fingernail used to fix wire cut problem, made from din jack housing.
430km on modification

 

[Bazaki]

A fingernail is just a piece of aluminium/metal that keeps the wire in place ?

 

[rebelpilot]

I used a small piece of steel to hold the wires down in the groove, so they can't contact the dust seal. This required a small fingernail shaped piece of metal with a lip on one end.

 

[sn0wchyld]

ive done the same fingernail trick myself. sofar so good, though Ive only gone about 10 or 15 k sofar

 

[groundproximity]

This is a sensorless solution but i don´t have any problems at all.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29731&start=15

I run 16S A123 and 2KW continous. The motor gets a little bit warm. Mine has almost no exterior air cooling since it is covered.
I couldn´t tell what AWG those wires are, but they are a bit thicker than the stock ones. And outside the motor i use a lot thicker cables of course.
I would go sensorless again. I´m sure one could pack even thicker cables in that axle than i did. I would definetely recon to use three single cables with glass silk protection able to take 250°C or so. As you can see on the pictures these three cables still offer enough space to press and epoxy them into the axle so that they don´t rub at all. You can still get rid of the seal if you want but at least the cables are save and also will not get any temp issues.

 

[gensem]

Sanity check...
Stock HS3540 18s lipo 55amps(~3400w input power), block time disabled and current throtle using CA.
Do you guys think its safe?

 

[wojtek]

just added 22v on my trike with HS 3540 today to get 66v. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30345

I guess it depends how you use it. I am using it for offroad and the motor is considerably hotter than with 44v setup. But it is offroad.

If you are using it at its best efficiency most of the time and on road, it should be fine.

Farfle is modifying my other HS3540 as i want to be able to abuse it with more Watts

 

[Bazaki]

Well, I tried installing 3 x 10Awg wires but that would only have been possible with phasewires only. I did install Hall sensors so no way to fit the 3 x 10awg,and 5 hall sensor wires together, maybe some of you did dremel out a few mm out of the axle ?

I kept the original wires and the seal destroyed one phase wire, I replaced the wires again and removed the seal. Since the motor is warm when riding I suppose the water that can flow in will evaporate.

 

[methods]

You got to remove the seal right from the start and make a fingernail insert to protect the wires. rebelpilot had the original idea but deleted his posts..

+1 on this advice for high reliability

I have been away from this thread for a while and I cant see any of the pictures but it is the seal that is cutting into the wires. On my hub I just popped the seal out and used a zip-tie to hold the phase wires down into the groove. Water is not a concern - the more holes the better. Water turns to vapor at 100C and I assure you that if you are "riding your bike proper" the outer surface of your stator will be well above 100C vaporizing and ejecting any water that may get in. (and cooling in the process)

For the hubs I am selling (where people want the seal intact) I have been performing the standard mod with the plastic ring and it is holding up fine.... though my axles are machined a little deeper than some.

The problem is not the HX motors.... the problem is the early production run HX motors. Remember that people will be reading this thread a year from now when there are no longer issues with the HX motors.

Wow... can you believe how bad Kenny botched this one
What a bummer. Such a dark cloud over what should be a beautiful sunny day.

-methods

 

[nicobie]

The problem is not the HX motors.... the problem is the early production run HX motors. Remember that people will be reading this thread a year from now when there are no longer issues with the HX motors.

Wow... can you believe how bad Kenny botched this one
What a bummer. Such a dark cloud over what should be a beautiful sunny day.

-methods

The bearings on the the first batch were crap too. Not a real big deal as I found a pair of good jap ones for $12 at the local bearing house.

The bigger problem is the controllers that Clyte ships to everyone but -methods and Ebike.ca. for these motors. I got one direct from Kenny and It will not work with Justins CA. He (kenny) has promised me one of his own displays 45 days ago, but it seems to be vaporware. Kenny's manual for it does not show that it can show Ah either.

 

[Arlo1]

A Cycle Analyst is so so so easy to install on any controller. There is no reason to worry you just got to open it up and solder the wires were they need to go!

 

[nicobie]

A Cycle Analyst is so so so easy to install on any controller. There is no reason to worry you just got to open it up and solder the wires were they need to go!

I did that with Justin's direction. No workie. He couldn't tell me where to hook up the throttle control wire with out looking at the controller's psb Kenny sent to me. This is the new sensored controller that Clyte is sending out with the H series motor.

Maybe you can help? :lol:

 

[biohazardman]

OK then now that I have read the whole thread through at least twice I still don't see what people are doing about the huge holes they drilled for the spokes in these things like 4.2 mm. My 12ga Sapim spoke has a 2.6mm shaft and is 5mm max at the widest part of the head. So a very sloppy fit and only .4mm overlap on the motor flange. I really wanted to get this thing done like yesterday so I expect with that in mind it will take years? ;^) Spoke washers for a new motor? What have you done or have you had the problem?

 

[Arlo1]

A Cycle Analyst is so so so easy to install on any controller. There is no reason to worry you just got to open it up and solder the wires were they need to go!

I did that with Justin's direction. No workie. He couldn't tell me where to hook up the throttle control wire with out looking at the controller's psb Kenny sent to me. This is the new sensored controller that Clyte is sending out with the H series motor.

Maybe you can help? :lol:

The side with the glare in the first picture is where the throttle hooks up which CA do you have? All the new ones have torque throttle and speed limits if you want to use them. You can run the throttle wires into the CA then to the controller I just did this last night and torque throttle is pretty cool. You dont have to use it as a torque throttle but its an option. Make sure you read the instructions! http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain/CA_Large_V223_Web.pdf

 

[methods]

I dont know why the hell he does stuff like that. :? <big sigh....>
Who on earth wants spoke holes that big???

In the past I have used brass washers that will deform and fit tight... though if you let them get loose they will eventually rub through. Seems to me that if you have "real spokes" you can run them tight enough that the loose fit wont matter right? I have been running 14G spokes with a 3.5mm head in the 3.0mm 9C motors for over a year and I have not had a problem (super overvolted). I think most of the problems boil down to loose spokes (but good luck tightening the fake Chinese ones.... )

-methods

OK then now that I have read the whole thread through at least twice I still don't see what people are doing about the huge holes they drilled for the spokes in these things like 4.2 mm. My 12ga Sapim spoke has a 2.6mm shaft and is 5mm max at the widest part of the head. So a very sloppy fit and only .4mm overlap on the motor flange. I really wanted to get this thing done like yesterday so I expect with that in mind it will take years? ;^) Spoke washers for a new motor? What have you done or have you had the problem?

 

[Arlo1]

OK then now that I have read the whole thread through at least twice I still don't see what people are doing about the huge holes they drilled for the spokes in these things like 4.2 mm. My 12ga Sapim spoke has a 2.6mm shaft and is 5mm max at the widest part of the head. So a very sloppy fit and only .4mm overlap on the motor flange. I really wanted to get this thing done like yesterday so I expect with that in mind it will take years? ;^) Spoke washers for a new motor? What have you done or have you had the problem?

I laced mine with 12 gauge and they are loose but once tight it seems fine!

 

[Arlo1]

My Spokes are form John robert holmes they are a great quality.