new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[gman1971]

le15otl,

You might need a new crank chainwheel as well, so while you get a new one, flip the current one backwards so the other face of the teeth engage the new chain. Potentially you might need a new freewheel motor sprocket, depending on how bad the wear is on that. I got about 2800 miles out of a BMX chain using first the GNG then the Cyclone before it was at .75% wear. I usually take both chains off the bike for thorough cleanup and measure stretch after 1000 miles, then I do that after ~500 miles. Usually when the chain is at about .5% stretch the time to replace is near... .75% you should seriously consider replace, and anything above 1% stretch its definitively done. Once it gets that bad the entire drivetrain gets chewed up like "no mañana"... Lubing the chain regularly has helped me keep it alive for longer...

G.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Great info gman1971. One thing to remember about stretched chains. When the chain and sprocket are both new, every link that is engaged with each of the sprocket teeth that's riding on is pulling some of the load, so...the load is spread out.

Once the sprocket plus chain get worn, only a few teeth right where the chain first touches the spinning sprocket are actually engaged. All of the other links appear to be on the sprocket, but they are loose, which results in the entire load being carried by only a couple of links. As you can imagine, once they reach this point, they go from bad to worse very fast.

This will sound odd, but I heard about "flipping the chainrings" on a bulldozer many years ago, when proper maintenance to make the sprocket and chain (or track-pins) last the longest possible amount of time (with the cost of new sprockets and tracks being tens of thousands of dollars). When the dozer sprockets were flipped over, the track-pins were also rotated 180-degrees. Of course, with bicycles using the appropriate roller-pin style, there is no need to flip the chain.

 

[gman1971]

Yeah, I don't remember how I learned about flipping the chainring deal, but I know it works b/c my outer most chainring (drivechain) was occasionally skipping after I put the new BMX chain, after close inspection some of the teeth weren't all rounded so I flipped the chainring and all skipping went away. So you can get around 5000 miles out of a chainring if you do due maintenance; also remember the previous chain lived through a Wisconsin salty winter mess, which was like riding in sanding paper...

Chalo got me started on the chain "matters", so I guess thanks to Chalo.

G.

Great info gman1971. One thing to remember about stretched chains. When the chain and sprocket are both new, every link that is engaged with each of the sprocket teeth that's riding on is pulling some of the load, so...the load is spread out.

Once the sprocket plus chain get worn, only a few teeth right where the chain first touches the spinning sprocket are actually engaged. All of the other links appear to be on the sprocket, but they are loose, which results in the entire load being carried by only a couple of links. As you can imagine, once they reach this point, they go from bad to worse very fast.

This will sound odd, but I heard about "flipping the chainrings" on a bulldozer many years ago, when proper maintenance to make the sprocket and chain (or track-pins) last the longest possible amount of time (with the cost of new sprockets and tracks being tens of thousands of dollars). When the dozer sprockets were flipped over, the track-pins were also rotated 180-degrees. Of course, with bicycles using the appropriate roller-pin style, there is no need to flip the chain.

 

[gman1971]

Just received word that the Cycle Analyst 2.4 has been delivered; so tonight it will be the first time in which I hook the main power. Can't wait for the motor to arrive...

G.

 

[1KW]

what kind of range expected with 12s 16ah pack? Mostly commuting on open road. Anybody have a bbshd to compare with?

 

[gman1971]

what kind of range expected with 12s 16ah pack? Mostly commuting on open road. Anybody have a bbshd to compare with?

The furthest I've gone on 12,000 12S is about 14 miles, batteries still were above 41V. I don't remember the exact mAh I used but I could've probably gone 1 or 2 more miles. The best way to think of this is that 30 mph is 1 mile per 1 Amp hour on 12S LiPo. So with 16,000 expect at least 16 miles at 30 mph.

G.

 

[le15otl]

I tried a ''new'' chain today and so far it hasn't come off. Comparing the links to the old chain and the new chain there is visibly a lot of stretch on the old, it's got to be a lot more than 1%. Hopefully it's only that that was severely worn not the chain ring or freewheel. Chain ring teeth look well worn but it hasn't done 2000miles yet so it 'should' still be alright. I think the chain has done more miles than all the electric sprockets/cogs.

Glad i didn't use it more due to what you say spinningmagnets about the wear getting exponentially faster once it's bad.

Gman I think i'll get the BMX chain you use now for the motor, mainly for reliability but also 2800 miles is pretty impressive. I must lubricate everythingmore often though.

Thx again. by suggesting the chain could be the cause it may have saved a lot of time and frustration as I was almost going to buy a new chainring only at first.

 

[gman1971]

Well, 2800 miles using two different kits, 1000 on the low RPM, high torque GNG Gen2, and a tad shy of 1800 miles on the Cyclone running high RPM... I also used a lower grade KMC H410 chain. The one I am using now is the H710SL, which has thicker plates and heat treated hardened plates so it should, hopefully, last a little longer. I also got regular at lubing the chain with dry lube. I did reverse the chainring just to be 100% sure. Takes 20 minutes and you're sure it won't wear stuff out the wrong way. On the trike I will be using a KMC H510 which is a better chain than the 410 from what I've gathered. I will also be running a 14T freewheel at the motor, so that will be a 10% torque reduction at the drivechain. I wish I could find a 16T freewheel for this motor, that would be the best way to deal with premature chain wear; plus that will allow to run the larges cogs on the sprocket thus further reducing force across the entire drivetrain.

G.

I tried a ''new'' chain today and so far it hasn't come off. Comparing the links to the old chain and the new chain there is visibly a lot of stretch on the old, it's got to be a lot more than 1%. Hopefully it's only that that was severely worn not the chain ring or freewheel. Chain ring teeth look well worn but it hasn't done 2000miles yet so it 'should' still be alright. I think the chain has done more miles than all the electric sprockets/cogs.

Glad i didn't use it more due to what you say spinningmagnets about the wear getting exponentially faster once it's bad.

Gman I think i'll get the BMX chain you use now for the motor, mainly for reliability but also 2800 miles is pretty impressive. I must lubricate everythingmore often though.

Thx again. by suggesting the chain could be the cause it may have saved a lot of time and frustration as I was almost going to buy a new chainring only at first.

 

[worldpax]

Hello! I am about to join the 3000w club. I had kind of given up on ebikes since I moved houses. Roads out here are high speed and no shoulder. The potential for 40-45mph bursts has given me a new hope though. I was going to spend my bonus check on a new motorcycle, but now I'm spending it on a new e-bike build.

This will be my second. The first was a 35mph 6t Mac Minivelo. This one is a bit more substantial. Planning on 60v/20ah. Thanks for the thread and all the info. Should make my build much, much easier.

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[gman1971]

More updates:

Got almost everything ready to go. Did a first complete system test with the Cycle Analyst running and everything checked out fine. Super awesome to read 69.8 volts on the CA screen... its about to mean some serious business. I did like the battery indicator on the CA 2.4... the cable for the speedometer pickup was too short so I had to extend it to get the speedometer working. I also did some more clean up and other misc work on the trike as well but at this point its officially road worthy. This weekend I'll upgrade my CA 2.3 firmware to 2.4 so I can get the little battery indicator on my eBike working.

Tracking hasn't updated on the Cyclone, looks like still dealing with acceptance or who knows what in Taiwan, so I am stuck ATM...

Pictures coming real soon, once its on the road.

G.

 

[juanfeli]

I'm thrilled with my C3000 in my Hardtail.

I'm still using it as single speed in trails and I have been abusing it in harsh way on rocky terrain. The brackets hold the motor rock solid and way beyond my expectations so now I'm going to use that bike in a very gentle way and also I'm going to install a suspension fork in order to increase the kit longevity.

Also I've been using the three speed switch control from Cyclone. It comes with a short cable from the control to more or less the center of the handlebar length then it is extended to the controller. Inside the first black part of the cable there are two free cables because on top of the control, there is a Light switch (red). Bellow that you have the three speed switch (yellow) and at the bottom a push horn button (green) which is used as an on/off a cruise control. I highly recommend to avoid the use of cruise control without ebrakes.

About the three speed switch, I like it and I don't understand how it works. I have a multimeter that I don't now how to use but if somebody guides me, I'll be happy to share what I find.

The 3 sp switch feels like this: From first speed (left position) to the second you can feel and instantly push. From 2nd to third, you don't feel it but what happens is that the acceleration goes for a lot longer. Let say that in 2nd, the acceleration goes from 1 to 10, but with the third speed the acceleration goes from 1 to 18. I don't know if is stronger.

This is the use that I have been giving to that control. First speed to start from 0 as makes the bike less prone to wheelie and third for everything else. I use my bike just for pleasure, but I think that for commute, the second speed could be useful to increase range when cruising.

Reduction gears were a concern in the beginning of this thread, but it looks that they are holding well for everybody.

Robocam: Great braket DIY solution. Looking forward to see how it holds in three months to replicate it in my F Suspension bike.

 

[juanfeli]

photos

 

[gman1971]

How many miles do you have?

Reduction gears will eat your chain, you just wait. I think "holding well" would be a valid statement when you have 1800+ miles on a chain, chainwheel and cassette commuting at 30-35 mph for 8+ miles, twice a day.

The three speed switch is just a 3 pole SPDT with center off; I have built one for my trike.

Mode #2 won't increase range and will force you to use the 11T pinion, this destroying the chain real fast. Mode #3 is the most efficient of all three modes and that's what has kept my motor running for 1800 miles getting only 20C above ambient after 1600-2200 watt commutes.

G.

I'm thrilled with my C3000 in my Hardtail.

I'm still using it as single speed in trails and I have been abusing it in harsh way on rocky terrain. The brackets hold the motor rock solid and way beyond my expectations so now I'm going to use that bike in a very gentle way and also I'm going to install a suspension fork in order to increase the kit longevity.

Also I've been using the three speed switch control from Cyclone. It comes with a short cable from the control to more or less the center of the handlebar length then it is extended to the controller. Inside the first black part of the cable there are two free cables because on top of the control, there is a Light switch (red). Bellow that you have the three speed switch (yellow) and at the bottom a push horn button (green) which is used as an on/off a cruise control. I highly recommend to avoid the use of cruise control without ebrakes.

About the three speed switch, I like it and I don't understand how it works. I have a multimeter that I don't now how to use but if somebody guides me, I'll be happy to share what I find.

The 3 sp switch feels like this: From first speed (left position) to the second you can feel and instantly push. From 2nd to third, you don't feel it but what happens is that the acceleration goes for a lot longer. Let say that in 2nd, the acceleration goes from 1 to 10, but with the third speed the acceleration goes from 1 to 18. I don't know if is stronger.

This is the use that I have been giving to that control. First speed to start from 0 as makes the bike less prone to wheelie and third for everything else. I use my bike just for pleasure, but I think that for commute, the second speed could be useful to increase range when cruising.

Reduction gears were a concern in the beginning of this thread, but it looks that they are holding well for everybody.

Robocam: Great braket DIY solution. Looking forward to see how it holds in three months to replicate it in my F Suspension bike.

 

[juanfeli]

By "holding well" I mean the brackets. By gears I mean the Nylon ones in the gear box.

 

[gman1971]

By "holding well" I mean the brackets. By gears I mean the Nylon ones in the gear box.

If you don't overheat the motor these gears should last a very long time.

G.

 

[juanfeli]

What temperature would be overheat?The max that I've measured is 96F



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[gman1971]

What temperature would be overheat?The max that I've measured is 96F



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What is the ambient temp? 96 seems quite high to me, but the again my ambient temp is like 40F... so my motor barely gets to 60-65F.

Nylon melting temp is 225C, but it becomes soft at much lower temp than that ( I think 50-70C its when starts to get soft)

So around 125-140F,

 

[juanfeli]

Thanks G.

Ambient temp was 76.

 

[gman1971]

Thanks G.

Ambient temp was 76.

Np, and sorry for jumping the gun a couple of posts earlier.

G.

 

[juanfeli]

Np G,

I'll share here whatever I'll find that could be valuable. My intention was to share that the brackets can survive some off road riding with a strong frame and what people could expect before order a 3 speed switch or cruise control from Cyclone.

 

[gman1971]

Np G,

I'll share here whatever I'll find that could be valuable. My intention was to share that the brackets can survive some off road riding with a strong frame and what people could expect before order a 3 speed switch or cruise control from Cyclone.

Cool!

Indeed, and I confirm the brackets are strong enough for most applications; but what we don't know is how other ppl run these bikes... what you might call hard riding someone might think is just meh... obviously robocam tore up the brackets real good so since each person installs the kit slightly different it is nearly impossible to know the real reasons that led to a failure.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Good news:
Just got notice that the Cyclone C3000W kit just arrived at US customs, and most likely, hopefully, it will be at my door tomorrow by end of business day. That means I'll have an entire weekend to wrench it together and once the heart of the monster starts beating it will be unstoppable in its quest to conquer the roads... mwahahaha... world domination, here I come!

After nearly 2 months of planning and 1 month of spending I am at the ragged edge of my budget; (amazingly still within budget) but I might have to do one last ditch effort and get the front suspension kit that Adam's sells before I let go off the gas on the wallet... Most expensive components? motor, CA and batteries. About 1200 dollars alone in those. Single most expensive item was the frame kit, 899 from Utah trikes. The rest is fairly inexpensive in itself, but once you add dozens of those the total grows up rapidly.


G.

 

[evolutiongts]

 

[gman1971]

very cool, but wait until you see mine.

G.

 

[gman1971]

BTW, you never answered my question about how much for the motor mount. Please answer that.

G.