new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[DingusMcGee]

lantice13,

flexing: dah, dah --- we need a video

Trade that smartphone in for a dial gauge and mount it where you think there is flexing. Then hold the rear brake very tight while the e-brake sensor is disconnected and give the motor some throttle. The dial gauge will move when relative flexing happens. Then you will have to decide whether that much flexing really matters. But you will now have a number -- is it a GIGO number?

 

[gman1971]

At this rate it will be in about two weeks...

G.

Flexing on the plates/motor is due to bolts not being tightened compounded with the fact of not having enough leverage on the the left side mounts. Been there, done that... once you address that with washers you won't move the motor out of its place even with a sledgehammer...

G.

Good to know that his fix works for you. I guess I'll suggest this fix if the flexing issues got mentioned again in our discussion at ES-FB and maybe they can do the mods on their kit and produce similar results. I suggest making a video showing the motor while running with load with this fix to finally prove that it does work. You see it's hard to believe something without any proof of it. Also, check back after you break 1000 mile mark with pictures of the mounting hardware so we can examine if the solution holds with minimal distortion of the bolts holding the motor.

 

[gman1971]

lantice13,

flexing: dah, dah --- we need a video

Trade that smartphone in for a dial gauge and mount it where you think there is flexing. Then hold the rear brake very tight while the e-brake sensor is disconnected and give the motor some throttle. The dial gauge will move when relative flexing happens. Then you will have to decide whether that much flexing really matters. But you will now have a number -- is it a GIGO number?

Totally agree, and there is always going to be flexing as we are not dealing with perfectly rigid materials here... and you nailed it on the head... "test and then you decide if that much flex matters to you"

I also agree that a video is pointless... if my solution involved money or that you had to pay me to implement it then fore sure, but buying a pack of 100 washers is what, 1 dollar and a trip to the hardware store worth? Anyone can try it out for themselves and be their own judge.... Even with the modified motor mount, my bike frame still flexes when I do exactly what DingusMcGee described; now while in the past the GNG motor mounts flexed along with the frame (this chain throwing), the Cyclone on the other hand doesn't flex much at the motor mount. The proof is that I haven't thrown a single drivechain in 500 miles; and the reason I still carry spare drivechain, chaintool, replacement chain tensioner (etc) is b/c the POS GNG left me paranoid about chain throwing...

As for aluminum, well there are dozens of aluminum alloys out there, and some of those are stronger and more rigid than anything but the strongest steel alloys, yet still lighter... so what is the point of Aluminum being bad? Sure, is not titanium or "adamantium" but heck, planes are built out of AL and still fly for decades long... this is moot point; also, the load (if built correctly) is parallel to the plate, not perpendicular so if the mounts are secured properly and have enough leverage then the motor shouldn't move the slightest bit during normal operation (throwing the bike off a cliff, crashing into a wall, etc... are NOT considered normal operation.)

Flexing in a left/right fashion a tad over 1/2 mm is not going to be enough for it throw chains, now, flexing something like 1 cm or more will surely throw chains and wreak all kind of havoc on the setup,

G.

 

[gman1971]

And speaking of chain throwing and cheap chinese kits... why spend thousands of dollars on the ebike if the rest of your drivetrain are just entry level parts?

This was one of the reason why I ended up with a Deore Shadow Plus derailleur plus SLX shifters. The difference between these and the entry level stuff is night and day... and I've tested all the entry level crap on my ebike; which started as an Altus 7 speed and the SF-51 rapidfire integrated shifters; and at about the 400 miles mark the derailleur had so much lateral play that shifting was really lousy. I upgraded to an 8 speed Alivio casette/derailleur with 4 finger SF-51 rapidfire integrated shifters... at around 400 miles the same crap: the rear derailleur had enough lateral play that shifting was once again crap.

Thats not taking into account that all the chain slapping and skipping when bike was going fast over rough terrain... so against all advice I went ahead and ordered a Shadow Plus 10 speed Deore RD615 derailleur, SLX cassette and SLX shifters... holy shitznezz smokes.... glad I did... now all my chain skip is gone, all the chain slapping is gone too, the shifting is pure short-throw F-1 awesomeness and at almost 500 miles the RD615+ Derailleur is still as tight as it was when brand new; plus this derailleur is almost fully serviceable too, I can replace most of the components on it except for the parallelogram... The Shadow Plus clutch is a MUST for high power ebike application... seriously.

Middrives add a lot of stress to all ebike drivetrain parts, so why skimp out on that?

G.

 

[turbo1889]

Okay, first off somewhere I read that the planetary reduction on this kit had a 4.91-to-1 gear down ratio. This did not sound right to me. Picture on the first page of this thread shows a simple single stage planetary reduction unit with an input sun gear will 11-teeth and three planet gears with 22-teeth each. Its difficult to count the ring gears teeth but careful scrutiny of the image and counting gives me a 55-teeth ring gear which mathematically makes sense, because on a simple planetary gearing system without complex two stage planets the following formula is used: (sun gear teeth count) + 2 x (planet gear teeth count) = (ring gear teeth count)

Thus with the input being the sun gear and the output being the planet carrier and the ring gear being fixed the reduction ratio must be 6-to-1 (ring gear teeth count) / (sun gear teeth count) + 1 = (reduction ratio)

I think someone made two mistakes in their math. First they forgot that with a planetary reduction gear box with a sun gear input and planetary carrier output and fixed ring gear you get a full extra rotation of "bonus" reduction due to the over-running orbits the planets make. Accounting for an incorrect 5-to-1 vs. correct 6-to-1 calculation. And then by miscounting the ring gear teeth by one less, AKA counting 54 rather then 55 teeth on the ring gear that would give them an incorrect reduction of 4.909090909090909---> repeating pattern which rounds down to a two decimal (incorrect) result of a 4.91-to-1 reduction ratio:

Long story short we have exactly a 6-to-1 reduction ratio in the planetary gear box on the motor. Which considering the motors free spinning no-load output after the gear box is specified as follows on the Sick Bike Parts (.com) (a U.S. seller offering just the motor itself domestically for those so desiring):

36v e-bike pack = 450-rpm
48v e-bike pack = 600-rpm
60v e-bike pack = 750-rpm
72v e-bike pack = 900-rpm

Well depending on exactly what was the actual pack voltage they used the Kv of the motor itself is going to be somewhere around 75-Kv. The "small block" motor the the Lightening Rods Kit uses and which is used on the GNG kits is fairly well established to be around 67-Kv or so. Might be the exact same motor assuming someone slighlty inflated their output RPMs by running the motor using a pack that was hot off the charger and at higher then rated nominal voltage. Or it could be a similar motor that has just a very slightly higher Kv rating maybe just one turn less on its windings or such.

For those not convinced that you get an extra full turn of gear reduction then would be initially assumed out of a planetary gear reduction box like this motor uses I threw together some simplified 2D-CAD model frames and assembled them into animated .gif files to demonstrate. Continuous running version first and then slow motion version so you can more easily count the rotations by the timing marks with a couple second pause at TDC when all the timing marks line up. As you can see it takes 6 full turns of the 11-t sun gear that is the input from the motor to get a single full rotation output from the planet gear carrier (represented by the purple triangle). I used lobe cog gears simply because they are quicker and easier to draw then toothed gears but the principle holds true regardless:

 

[emaayan]

has anyone asked paco what's the rpm/v ?

 

[turbo1889]

Oh, yah, someone also asked if its possible for an internal geared hub to take the power this kit puts out. Someone already is running one of these on a 170mm fat bike version of the Sturmey Archer 3-speed gear hub:

Clickable link to article= Electric-Fatbike.com 3-Kw cyclone with Sturmey Archer 3-speed

. . . the Sturmey 3 speed IGH which actually works surprisingly well even at higher power levels. I was up shifting under load and the IGH made no funny noises at all. It felt a lot like shifting a smaller displacement motorcycle and was smooth as silk. . . . The combination of the Cyclone and the 3-speed IGH felt a lot like a motorcycle . . .

Its fairly common knowledge (at least from what I've seen) that the 3-speed internal gear hubs can sometimes take the abuse, not all of them and not always of course and whether or not you try to shift under load and whether you have your shifter correctly adjusted so that the clutch system on the inside of the hub doesn't end up being only partially engaged due to not being correctly adjusted and individual "luck" do seem to play a big part in the equation. Most of the internal gear hubs with more gears are not so often reported with success stories, it just seems to be some of the 3-speed hubs which seem to be able to "take it" at least in some people builds.

I will note that I did destroy a 3-speed fixie hub myself but that was when I was trying to use it for regenerative braking on a steep downhill slope with a heavily loaded cargo bike trying to downshift against the motor (not this one, a home-made stoker monkey type set-up) and control my descent just like you would do with an 18-wheeler semi-truck carrying a load down a steep mountain pass. It worked for a while and then she tore her own insides into scrap metal. But then I've been told that, that specific hub isn't a true old school tough as nails three speed design but rather is a five speed hub with to the upper two speeds disabled to allow fixie non-freewheeling application and I have also worn out some other internal geared hubs but they didn't break they just wore out and it wasn't like they were in that good of condition to begin with (free salvage is a wonderful price).

Long story short, if you use a traditional 3-speed hub and treat it nice, conventional wisdom says that it should probably work even under the levels of power this kit is capable of.

 

[tomjasz]

Anyone have a motor handy to scale the motor shaft for a fellow user?

Anyone?

anyone have a caliper handy? shaft size?

 

[gman1971]

~19.5 mm at the freewheel shaft. Its thick.

G.

 

[tomjasz]

Here come the 60V

http://lunacycle.com/60v/

 

[lantice13]

lantice13,

flexing: dah, dah --- we need a video

Trade that smartphone in for a dial gauge and mount it where you think there is flexing. Then hold the rear brake very tight while the e-brake sensor is disconnected and give the motor some throttle. The dial gauge will move when relative flexing happens. Then you will have to decide whether that much flexing really matters. But you will now have a number -- is it a GIGO number?

Totally agree, and there is always going to be flexing as we are not dealing with perfectly rigid materials here... and you nailed it on the head... "test and then you decide if that much flex matters to you"

I also agree that a video is pointless... if my solution involved money or that you had to pay me to implement it then fore sure, but buying a pack of 100 washers is what, 1 dollar and a trip to the hardware store worth? Anyone can try it out for themselves and be their own judge.... Even with the modified motor mount, my bike frame still flexes when I do exactly what DingusMcGee described; now while in the past the GNG motor mounts flexed along with the frame (this chain throwing), the Cyclone on the other hand doesn't flex much at the motor mount. The proof is that I haven't thrown a single drivechain in 500 miles; and the reason I still carry spare drivechain, chaintool, replacement chain tensioner (etc) is b/c the POS GNG left me paranoid about chain throwing...

As for aluminum, well there are dozens of aluminum alloys out there, and some of those are stronger and more rigid than anything but the strongest steel alloys, yet still lighter... so what is the point of Aluminum being bad? Sure, is not titanium or "adamantium" but heck, planes are built out of AL and still fly for decades long... this is moot point; also, the load (if built correctly) is parallel to the plate, not perpendicular so if the mounts are secured properly and have enough leverage then the motor shouldn't move the slightest bit during normal operation (throwing the bike off a cliff, crashing into a wall, etc... are NOT considered normal operation.)

Flexing in a left/right fashion a tad over 1/2 mm is not going to be enough for it throw chains, now, flexing something like 1 cm or more will surely throw chains and wreak all kind of havoc on the setup,

G.

hmmm how come some people can do a video to prove their claims? I think it's easy enough to do. Everyone has a smart phone nowadays. I can do it, how come you guys can't? just have someone take the video using you smart phone while you hold the bike up or use a bike stand to hold it up. to simulate the load, just use your rear brakes while you run the motor. I mean you guys spent time posting in this forum, you read post and watch videos in this forum that others produced I'm pretty sure you can spend time producing something too. All this talk and no proof. I don't think this how we do things here.

 

[lantice13]

lantice13,

I suggest making a video

And using who's resources? gman1971 and I are likely to put our resources where they will do us the most good. And we use this thread to communicate our enhanced intuitions and efforts about how things are working on our setup situation.

I see little actual engineering for the glorified LR Mid Drive but I have seen and read some 148 pages of crowd-sourcing. Crowd sourcing is not engineering-- where are the numbers, vector diagrams and finite element package results for loadings on the sheet frame? I suspect the Ford ebike design group put numbers on everything. And you pay big $$ for their thinking. The LR mid drive is not without shortcomings: The loggerheaded Michael Backus on chain guards,"...I don't like chain guards..." On the first day of riding my LR Small Block my pant leg caught twice. I immediately made a working chain guard for that zone. See pic



Aluminum -- Bad mouth it all you like. Yes, finite life. Bike frames are made of aluminum. A fleet of Stealth Bombers is mothballed at Ellsworth AFB due to fatigue at the rivets on the skin sheets, but repairable. And were the sheet skins underdesigned?

Usher in Spare Parts -- Without spare parts the auto industry would not exist as we know it. Without NAPPA and the likes, I would need another whole car to have spare parts. But as for the 2 piece aluminum frame on the Cyclone 3000, if a sheet fails I can fabricate such a simple sheet piece in less than an hour. And LR has a whole bunch of spare parts for sale for his mechanizations.

What is life like as an observing whiner! Maybe a steel-framed Omnibike for you?


.

Hmmmm all that claims, you should make your own kit instead of buying LR and Cyclone kits then and impress the community. You guys are members of this community, which you guys benefit from others testing, destroying, and improving stuff and take them to the next level. We benefit from those resources that other members used you know? just to give us what we have in this forums archives. if you can spew all that theory and calculation, is supposed a simple video showing that you got rid most of the flex from the 3kw cyclone kit is easy enough. what's the scientific method again?

 

[lantice13]

And speaking of chain throwing and cheap chinese kits... why spend thousands of dollars on the ebike if the rest of your drivetrain are just entry level parts?

This was one of the reason why I ended up with a Deore Shadow Plus derailleur plus SLX shifters. The difference between these and the entry level stuff is night and day... and I've tested all the entry level crap on my ebike; which started as an Altus 7 speed and the SF-51 rapidfire integrated shifters; and at about the 400 miles mark the derailleur had so much lateral play that shifting was really lousy. I upgraded to an 8 speed Alivio casette/derailleur with 4 finger SF-51 rapidfire integrated shifters... at around 400 miles the same crap: the rear derailleur had enough lateral play that shifting was once again crap.

Thats not taking into account that all the chain slapping and skipping when bike was going fast over rough terrain... so against all advice I went ahead and ordered a Shadow Plus 10 speed Deore RD615 derailleur, SLX cassette and SLX shifters... holy shitznezz smokes.... glad I did... now all my chain skip is gone, all the chain slapping is gone too, the shifting is pure short-throw F-1 awesomeness and at almost 500 miles the RD615+ Derailleur is still as tight as it was when brand new; plus this derailleur is almost fully serviceable too, I can replace most of the components on it except for the parallelogram... The Shadow Plus clutch is a MUST for high power ebike application... seriously.

Middrives add a lot of stress to all ebike drivetrain parts, so why skimp out on that?

G.

hmmmm good for you, Hopefully you know how to properly shift your bikes gears. I wonder why that certain company invented this device called throttle interupt/gear sensor for bafang mid drives. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=60963 hmmm read that up. I do have 6000+ miles on a crappy altus though but I moved that thing on another bike so kinda I reset the CA odometer to 200 miles so cant show you the proof on that particular derailer. however I got 3000+ miles on a cheap ass turney. you want proof I can show you proof.

I do however stay at a reasonable amount of power when it comes to mid drives, so they should last a good amount of time. they do shift ok as well, as long as you properly lube and maintain it. Good shifting can always be done through proper derailer adjustments. My main commuter is a bike that got a single 10T MAC geared hub motor so I don't have the problems you are having with your commuter. if I want this bike to pull a truck, I'll just add another motor on the front wheel. the bike functions just fine with entry level shimano parts which are very cheap to replace every 4 or so years of daily use. Hub motor builds are very forgiving specially for commuter bikes. what are those words from the legendary Justin of ebikes.ca/grin tech? "simple but elegant".

Anyway, kinda OT. still need some more data about the 3kw cyclone kit. The bicycle drivetrain for mid drives is for another thread.

 

[lantice13]

Here come the 60V

http://lunacycle.com/60v/

Nice! =D hopefully 72v next year.

 

[gman1971]

My bike frame flexes under load, I don't need to do a video to show what its already known... and as for the motor mounts I guess you're gonna have to take my word for it and spend 6 dollars on a box of 100 washers and a bottle of red loctite at your local hardware store and try it for yourself until I get around of doing a video; that's why I wanted a reliable kit so I don't have to be messing with the dang thing every day... Oh, and I have no affiliation with Cyclone, nor GNG, nor Luna Cycle; but the facts are that the GNG kit sucked b@lls and the Cyclone kit is working well.

Again, why would I praise this kit if it really sucked? Especially after I pointed every defect on the GNG kit; I think I had a very optimistic attitude "I can fix this" during most of my GNG journey to get it working; in the end I gave up and posted every bit of a problem on the GNG kit I installed after running it for 1400 miles... I have no reason to lie to you nor anybody that this kit is working well for me now... believe me... when shit fails I am very vocal about it... but what's most important is that others are also having good results with this kit too so I am not alone.

The things I hated the most on the GNG the most was the constant drivechain throwings... and this hasn't happened on the Cyclone yet.

The review on that Fat bike with the Cyclone 3000w was a very positive review too; and he also did some modification to the motor mounts using hex nuts, along with using loctite...

lantice13,

flexing: dah, dah --- we need a video

Trade that smartphone in for a dial gauge and mount it where you think there is flexing. Then hold the rear brake very tight while the e-brake sensor is disconnected and give the motor some throttle. The dial gauge will move when relative flexing happens. Then you will have to decide whether that much flexing really matters. But you will now have a number -- is it a GIGO number?

Totally agree, and there is always going to be flexing as we are not dealing with perfectly rigid materials here... and you nailed it on the head... "test and then you decide if that much flex matters to you"

I also agree that a video is pointless... if my solution involved money or that you had to pay me to implement it then fore sure, but buying a pack of 100 washers is what, 1 dollar and a trip to the hardware store worth? Anyone can try it out for themselves and be their own judge.... Even with the modified motor mount, my bike frame still flexes when I do exactly what DingusMcGee described; now while in the past the GNG motor mounts flexed along with the frame (this chain throwing), the Cyclone on the other hand doesn't flex much at the motor mount. The proof is that I haven't thrown a single drivechain in 500 miles; and the reason I still carry spare drivechain, chaintool, replacement chain tensioner (etc) is b/c the POS GNG left me paranoid about chain throwing...

As for aluminum, well there are dozens of aluminum alloys out there, and some of those are stronger and more rigid than anything but the strongest steel alloys, yet still lighter... so what is the point of Aluminum being bad? Sure, is not titanium or "adamantium" but heck, planes are built out of AL and still fly for decades long... this is moot point; also, the load (if built correctly) is parallel to the plate, not perpendicular so if the mounts are secured properly and have enough leverage then the motor shouldn't move the slightest bit during normal operation (throwing the bike off a cliff, crashing into a wall, etc... are NOT considered normal operation.)

Flexing in a left/right fashion a tad over 1/2 mm is not going to be enough for it throw chains, now, flexing something like 1 cm or more will surely throw chains and wreak all kind of havoc on the setup,

G.

hmmm how come some people can do a video to prove their claims? I think it's easy enough to do. Everyone has a smart phone nowadays. I can do it, how come you guys can't? just have someone take the video using you smart phone while you hold the bike up or use a bike stand to hold it up. to simulate the load, just use your rear brakes while you run the motor. I mean you guys spent time posting in this forum, you read post and watch videos in this forum that others produced I'm pretty sure you can spend time producing something too. All this talk and no proof. I don't think this how we do things here.

 

[gman1971]

Been shifting my cars for more than 20 years, I detest automatic slushboxes... so I know a thing or two about how to shift gears, press the clutch etc... ... I never shift under load my bike, but being upfront I did shift under load for the first 40 miles on the GNG until I snapped my first chain... but not ever since. I've built my bike throttle and shift lever in such a way that I can shift the gears like an F-1... I have videos from my ebike dashcam that I can show...

The parallelogram on the Alivio/Altus stuff is much weaker and easier to move than the parallelogram on the Deore stuff; I don't know how or why, but one derailleur feels wobbly when I move it by hand, the other one feels rock solid. Maybe I push my bike hard on the weekend adventures...

My rear frame is also chipped pretty bad from my two previous derailleurs not holding the chain in place while riding hard on rough terrain, that's a fact; and skipping while at it, too. When you run 2200 watts and your derailleur doesn't hold the chain tension the first bump you hit the chain will skip or shift, been there done that... (I did run an Alivio 8-speed the first night I put my Cyclone kit together and the chain skipped on the 13t and 11t gears, hence why I put the 10speed Deore back) The 10spd clutch is like night and day vs the Altus/Alivio stuff... and it was 50 bucks brand new on one of those Amazon deals... my SLX shifters were also 39.95 for the two shifters, brand new... I see no reason to run entry level stuff on a high power mid drive when the Shadow Plus stuff is on the same price range as the entry level stuff and when chain skipping on high power applications is such a problem.

In addition to the clutch, the entry level derailleur springs don't hold the chain tension very well either, and as a comparison, even without the clutch the spring tensioner on the RD615+ derailleur is considerably stronger than the Alivio/Altus I have on my son and wife's bikes.

High power mid drives really require plenty of chain tension that you simply can't get on the entry level stuff, not without the bigger spring and the clutch mechanics on the derailleur.

G.

hmmmm good for you, Hopefully you know how to properly shift your bikes gears. I wonder why that certain company invented this device called throttle interupt/gear sensor for bafang mid drives. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=60963 hmmm read that up. I do have 6000+ miles on a crappy altus though but I moved that thing on another bike so kinda I reset the CA odometer to 200 miles so cant show you the proof on that particular derailer. however I got 3000+ miles on a cheap ass turney. you want proof I can show you proof.

I do however stay at a reasonable amount of power when it comes to mid drives, so they should last a good amount of time. they do shift ok as well, as long as you properly lube and maintain it. Good shifting can always be done through proper derailer adjustments. My main commuter is a bike that got a single 10T MAC geared hub motor so I don't have the problems you are having with your commuter. if I want this bike to pull a truck, I'll just add another motor on the front wheel. the bike functions just fine with entry level shimano parts which are very cheap to replace every 4 or so years of daily use. Hub motor builds are very forgiving specially for commuter bikes. what are those words from the legendary Justin of ebikes.ca/grin tech? "simple but elegant".

Anyway, kinda OT. still need some more data about the 3kw cyclone kit. The bicycle drivetrain for mid drives is for another thread.

 

[lantice13]

anyway this is how things are done here bud, no offense! even on the milder ES-FB group which I co-moderate. We dont just take peoples word as facts. it better have some evidence backing it. always been like that ever since I joined this forum. Hey look at it this way, if your solution does solve the problem, you'll most probably credited for it. That's how any technical forum works I guess.

I'm still testing the 2015 GNG gen 1 mid drive on my bike for longevity. so far, the stupid thing still works and been problem free after the controller tuning. I'm now trying to determine how the things functionality after XX years and XXXX miles. How much the drivetrain wears and all the exposed moving parts. It's a disposable mid drive at this point. when it does break, this cyclone kit is the next in line. there will be a bunch of different solutions that other users are gonna post in this thread for sure, then again for the sake of being quasi scientific at least, have some tangible proof that others can replicate. alright need to go back to the ES-FB page.... I'm the night shift after all. :wink:

 

[lantice13]

Been shifting my cars for more than 20 years, I detest automatic slushboxes... so I know a thing or two about how to shift gears, press the clutch etc... ... I never shift under load my bike, but being upfront I did shift under load for the first 40 miles on the GNG until I snapped my first chain... but not ever since. I've built my bike throttle and shift lever in such a way that I can shift the gears like an F-1... I have videos from my ebike dashcam that I can show...

The parallelogram on the Alivio/Altus stuff is much weaker and easier to move than the parallelogram on the Deore stuff; I don't know how or why, but one derailleur feels wobbly when I move it by hand, the other one feels rock solid. Maybe I push my bike hard on the weekend adventures...

My rear frame is also chipped pretty bad from my two previous derailleurs not holding the chain in place while riding hard on rough terrain, that's a fact; and skipping while at it, too. When you run 2200 watts and your derailleur doesn't hold the chain tension the first bump you hit the chain will skip or shift, been there done that... (I did run an Alivio 8-speed the first night I put my Cyclone kit together and the chain skipped on the 13t and 11t gears, hence why I put the 10speed Deore back) The 10spd clutch is like night and day vs the Altus/Alivio stuff... and it was 50 bucks brand new on one of those Amazon deals... my SLX shifters were also 39.95 for the two shifters, brand new... I see no reason to run entry level stuff on a high power mid drive when the Shadow Plus stuff is on the same price range as the entry level stuff and when chain skipping on high power applications is such a problem.

In addition to the clutch, the entry level derailleur springs don't hold the chain tension very well either, and as a comparison, even without the clutch the spring tensioner on the RD615+ derailleur is considerably stronger than the Alivio/Altus I have on my son and wife's bikes.

High power mid drives really require plenty of chain tension that you simply can't get on the entry level stuff, not without the bigger spring and the clutch mechanics on the derailleur.

G.

Well bike shop guys were telling not to shift a bike derailer on power....that's on a push bike/non electric bike. it's been documented that these things can snap your chain and bend cassette cogs. That's why there are a number of builders that just abandoned the multiple gear setup and just goes single speed with one ratio on the rear. I'm pretty sure they are easy to find here. lol, yep I know someone with a cromotor hub motor that runs on a mid drive on a cargo bike. oh yeah that thing dont need multiple gears at all. single speed, he needed thicker chains and 2 cogs of the same tooth count so the motor wont bend the bugger. heck he even have a direct drive hub motor in that same bike on the rear. Dont know if he's a member here. he did brought it at interbike 2015 on the last unofficial ES meet last September.

 

[Leebolectric]

my cyclone kit came strange...i am not knowledgeable enough to know why.
when I plugged it in, it made a grrrrrrr sound, but no motion...like it was vibrating instead of moving forward.
....I think one of the power leads to the motor was switched...their wires were the wrong colors...
...when I connected the opposite way, it seemed to work fine.
Green/Yellow wires leading out of motor...
Green/Yellow wires running out of controller...
I assumed Green/Green...and Yellow/Yellow....would be connected...
...but it only works as Green2Yeellow and Green2Yellow .

Someone who knows this stuff better will know if what I say makes sense.
Does it sound like i found the "right" fix...or is this potentially damaging?

 

[emaayan]

my cyclone kit came strange...i am not knowledgeable enough to know why.
when I plugged it in, it made a grrrrrrr sound, but no motion...like it was vibrating instead of moving forward.
....I think one of the power leads to the motor was switched...their wires were the wrong colors...
...when I connected the opposite way, it seemed to work fine.
Green/Yellow wires leading out of motor...
Green/Yellow wires running out of controller...
I assumed Green/Green...and Yellow/Yellow....would be connected...
...but it only works as Green2Yeellow and Green2Yellow .

Someone who knows this stuff better will know if what I say makes sense.
Does it sound like i found the "right" fix...or is this potentially damaging?

highly recommend you ask paco or who ever sent you that, it does sound like a wrong phase coloring, which means it may have slipped qa. would advise returning tha.

 

[gman1971]

Snapped the chain already. I don't shift under power anymore... my 10spd chain has 600 miles @ 1800 watt average on it and it hasn't had any problems so far.

As for the comment "gears are not needed", well, that's other people assuming what's best for me... but matter of fact is that I won't pull 100+ lbs of cargo on two cargo trailers up a 15% hill with packed snow with anything else but a mid drive and a high enough gear ratios to pull uphill... not without burning the motor I won't.

Cars with engines way more powerful than our ebikes have gears and they don't drive in 6th gear all the time... If you prefer to run dd, then go ahead, I'll keep my 20 speed eBike so when conditions get real shitty I can power my way through anything.

G.

Well bike shop guys were telling not to shift a bike derailer on power....that's on a push bike/non electric bike. it's been documented that these things can snap your chain and bend cassette cogs. That's why there are a number of builders that just abandoned the multiple gear setup and just goes single speed with one ratio on the rear. I'm pretty sure they are easy to find here. lol, yep I know someone with a cromotor hub motor that runs on a mid drive on a cargo bike. oh yeah that thing dont need multiple gears at all. single speed, he needed thicker chains and 2 cogs of the same tooth count so the motor wont bend the bugger. heck he even have a direct drive hub motor in that same bike on the rear. Dont know if he's a member here. he did brought it at interbike 2015 on the last unofficial ES meet last September.

 

[evolutiongts]

my cyclone kit came strange...i am not knowledgeable enough to know why.
when I plugged it in, it made a grrrrrrr sound, but no motion...like it was vibrating instead of moving forward.
....I think one of the power leads to the motor was switched...their wires were the wrong colors...
...when I connected the opposite way, it seemed to work fine.
Green/Yellow wires leading out of motor...
Green/Yellow wires running out of controller...
I assumed Green/Green...and Yellow/Yellow....would be connected...
...but it only works as Green2Yeellow and Green2Yellow .

Someone who knows this stuff better will know if what I say makes sense.
Does it sound like i found the "right" fix...or is this potentially damaging?

Phase is blue - blue
green - yellow
yellow - green

Halls are the same thing
blue - blue
green - yellow
yellow- green

 

[Mikebike]

Introducing myself with this first post.
I want to start by thanking the previous forum posters in general and a few members in particular who were kind enough to help me get started with private emails. This forum has been an awesome resource!
I purchased the Cyclone 3000 watt kit with twist throttle from Luna Cycle week of 1/25/16. They shipped immediately and I got my kit today. Well packed. I'm psyched to install it.
I have a 36 volt 10 amp hour battery (lifepo4-pouch style) with a 45 amp max bms installed. I bought the batteries used and they are supposedly 2c (continuous) to max 4c (burst) so that gives me 720 watts continuous that I am comfortable with to get started.
My bike is a longtail cargo bike and I like to get groceries, run errands, go bike camping, and just do slow cruising.
I bought the kit because I wanted to add some electric assist for longer distances, hills, help with carrying loads, etc. Not looking to break any speed records.
Will update as I get time to install this kit.

 

[gman1971]

Hey welcome.

So the battery is rated at 2C, with a 10 Ah capacity? that's like 20 amps continuous... the Cyclone controller will draw 40 amps in a snap and easily remain pegged to 40+ amps (and there is no way to program the controller to avoid this), so your batteries won't last very long... especially if you plan on using the bike like I do as a grocery getter/adventure ride/etc... I would go for at least a 14S LiFePo or a 12S Lipo (if you like LiPos) with a larger capacity to make up for the massive amp draw this kit has. At 36V with such a small battery pack you might find the performance lacking...

G.

Introducing myself with this first post.
I want to start by thanking the previous forum posters in general and a few members in particular who were kind enough to help me get started with private emails. This forum has been an awesome resource!
I purchased the Cyclone 3000 watt kit with twist throttle from Luna Cycle week of 1/25/16. They shipped immediately and I got my kit today. Well packed. I'm psyched to install it.
I have a 36 volt 10 amp hour battery (lifepo4-pouch style) with a 45 amp max bms installed. I bought the batteries used and they are supposedly 2c (continuous) to max 4c (burst) so that gives me 720 watts continuous that I am comfortable with to get started.
My bike is a longtail cargo bike and I like to get groceries, run errands, go bike camping, and just do slow cruising.
I bought the kit because I wanted to add some electric assist for longer distances, hills, help with carrying loads, etc. Not looking to break any speed records.
Will update as I get time to install this kit.

 

[emaayan]

Hey welcome.

So the battery is rated at 2C, with a 10 Ah capacity? that's like 20 amps continuous... the Cyclone controller will draw 40 amps in a snap and easily remain pegged to 40+ amps (and there is no way to program the controller to avoid this), so your batteries won't last very long... especially if you plan on using the bike like I do as a grocery getter/adventure ride/etc... I would go for at least a 14S LiFePo or a 12S Lipo (if you like LiPos) with a larger capacity to make up for the massive amp draw this kit has. At 36V with such a small battery pack you might find the performance lacking...

G.

Introducing myself with this first post.
I want to start by thanking the previous forum posters in general and a few members in particular who were kind enough to help me get started with private emails. This forum has been an awesome resource!
I purchased the Cyclone 3000 watt kit with twist throttle from Luna Cycle week of 1/25/16. They shipped immediately and I got my kit today. Well packed. I'm psyched to install it.
I have a 36 volt 10 amp hour battery (lifepo4-pouch style) with a 45 amp max bms installed. I bought the batteries used and they are supposedly 2c (continuous) to max 4c (burst) so that gives me 720 watts continuous that I am comfortable with to get started.
My bike is a longtail cargo bike and I like to get groceries, run errands, go bike camping, and just do slow cruising.
I bought the kit because I wanted to add some electric assist for longer distances, hills, help with carrying loads, etc. Not looking to break any speed records.
Will update as I get time to install this kit.

hi, welcome, dude, getting 4 hp mid-drive with 36v battery to get groceries is like hitting toothpick with a sledgehammer that happens to have plastic handle made by a drunken Chinese sailor.. it will not end well..

those 36v10AH packs, are used here in israel, for standard Chinese folder ebikes with 250-350w motors , and those ARE mainly being used for groceries and errands
now i know that mid-drives are good for carrying cargo loads and such, but what are you carrying?