new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Here's my build, I'm working to buy a few cyclone kits from taiwan. Get some development going.

Anyway, I'm running stock setup, 72V lipo. Hitting close to 40mph on top gear (9th, 34T rear)

I'm consuming about four miles per one-Ah. 26 x 2.1 rear. 26 x 2.35 front. Knobbies.

IMG_5114_large.JPG


[moderator edit to fix mis-stated spec]
 
"1 mile per 4ah." That is a huge bummer and sounds horrible. Sounds like you need an extension cord for that one.

Tom
 
And here I thought I was bad at 1 mile per 0.9 Ah... holy smokes, 4Ah per mile? What are you planning on using a flux capacitor?

G.
 
litespeed said:
"1 mile per 4ah." That is a huge bummer and sounds horrible. Sounds like you need an extension cord for that one.

Tom

lol i meant 4 miles per 1 AH.
 
Miles per watt hour or watt hours per mile would make more sense here :) since many use different battery voltages.
 
robocam said:
Miles per watt hour would make more sense here :) We all use different battery voltages, so miles per Ah doesn't really mean anything

so mine is about 45 Wh/mile no pedal assist @ 30mph cruise, 26 mph average over 8.2 miles.

4 miles and 1 Ah @ 72 Volts, I think it comes to about 18 Wh/mile, thats pretty good, at what speed? what kind of terrain?


G.
 
Has anybody thought about modifying the shunt on the Cyclone controller? That should allow for a little bit more juice, thoughts?

G.
 
Well, seeing that ppl are having some good results with 72V I figured I'd try, is just adding 6S more LiPo in series and that will give the magic number... however, my low voltage rail was built using a RC grade BEC set at 7.5 volts so I can direct drive the MT-G2 LEDs on the headlights. Unfortunately, this BEC can only handle up to 52V, so running anything beyond 52 will surely mean bad news for the BEC... so in order to get a taste of the true potential of this kit I really need to do some ground work before it can be installed... Again, I could disconnect the BEC and just run the motor controller directly... but I really need headlights... so today I ordered one of those DC to DC regulators that will take any input from 0-90 volts down to 12V, supposedly capable of 240W, but I only need it to be capable of delivering 60watts. Then I'll hook the current BEC to the 12V end of the regulator so that should keep everything running.

G.
 
Can anyone share the wiring diagram or wire colors of the Cyclone controller? I'm stuck at the moment trying to figure out how to add PAS to one of my bikes with that controller. The controllers are the same with the 1920-3000w kit or the newer 1800-3000w kit so i'd be appreciative of any info. there's nothing on the cyclone-tw site and a search here on ES didnt help. Thanks in advance
 
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/pas.htm
 
I was trying to figure out why my controller is capping my current at 36 amps, and in the process I discovered that our controller as it comes from Cyclone is running in power setting #2, not #3. Mode #1 is fairly slow, probably for legal issues; mode 2 is what we all have running now, and it seems to limit top speed of the motor along with limiting acceleration past a point so no matter how much you increased the volts, you just won't get any faster no matter what you do to the motor (only solution was to change gearing)... but now let me introduce you to mode #3... welcome to unlimited, as in... you get whatever your batteries can deliver... which is out of this world.

So before going out to test with the rear wheel off the ground @ 44 volts, on mode #2 my top speed was 52 mph on the 13T, so I switched to mode #3 and the thing made a spool up sound all the way up to 72 mph!! On 44 volts!! So, for you guys who are running 72V I can't even begin to imagine the performance you'll get out of this guy... this will eat BBSHDs for breakfast with mode #3 unlocked...

So.... how the heck do you engage mode #3? Quite simple, in the stock controller there is a connector called Power Switch that has three cables, one blue, one black and one pink. I used a 32 ohm resistor from black to pink and that will engage mode #3 and the guys who are running 72V can probably hit 60mph out this guy... you can probably use a SPDT switch if you want to engage the modes on the fly... but let me tell you that your amp draw will be pegged at whatever max your controller does.

G.
 
gman1971 said:
I was trying to figure out why my controller is capping my current at 36 amps, and in the process I discovered that our controller as it comes from Cyclone is running in power setting #2, not #3. Mode #1 is fairly slow, probably for legal issues; mode 2 is what we all have running now, and it seems to limit top speed of the motor along with limiting acceleration past a point so no matter how much you increased the volts, you just won't get any faster no matter what you do to the motor (only solution was to change gearing)... but now let me introduce you to mode #3... welcome to unlimited, as in... you get whatever your batteries can deliver... which is out of this world.

So before going out to test with the rear wheel off the ground @ 44 volts, on mode #2 my top speed was 52 mph on the 13T, so I switched to mode #3 and the thing made a spool up sound all the way up to 72 mph!! On 44 volts!! So, for you guys who are running 72V I can't even begin to imagine the performance you'll get out of this guy... this will eat BBSHDs for breakfast with mode #3 unlocked...

So.... how the heck do you engage mode #3? Quite simple, in the stock controller there is a connector called Power Switch that has three cables, one blue, one black and one pink. I used a 32 ohm resistor from black to pink and that will engage mode #3 and the guys who are running 72V can probably hit 60mph out this guy... you can probably use a SPDT switch if you want to engage the modes on the fly... but let me tell you that your amp draw will be pegged at whatever max your controller does.

G.

Nice find, Gman! How did you stumble on this information? You have to give use some amp readings after you play around with this setting. Or does it still get limited to 40 amps?
 
gman1971,

today, On the street with pink and black wires hooked together with 33 ohm resistor between I get 35 mph. fully charged.

Next, Unhooked pink and black and I get 38.0 mph. fully charged

Looking at max I see I have gotten 41.9mph. fully charged.

Where has the extra 3.9 mph gone?

Your fix doesn't seem to make much difference on this controller except the fix seems to go in the wrong direction.
 
I found this while trying to figure out why my controller was only allowing 1600 watts, basically somehow it is limiting the current to 36.4 amps max. Last week I have datalogs that go all the way to 2100 watts... 1800 average.. but 1500 watts kinda made me notice. While inspecting the controller I noticed the power select and I wondered if maybe it switched mode? So I stumbled across some info on the web that said that these 3 speed switches are nothing more than an open center SPDT switch... and when not plugged is like it remains in option 2, so I took a leap of faith and armed with a multimeter found the ground and proceeded to connect the resistor; and all of the sudden motor was running 1/2 the speed, so I figured, lets jumper the other two cables, and voila, it was a freaking rocket!

G.

StinkyGoalieGuy said:
gman1971 said:
I was trying to figure out why my controller is capping my current at 36 amps, and in the process I discovered that our controller as it comes from Cyclone is running in power setting #2, not #3. Mode #1 is fairly slow, probably for legal issues; mode 2 is what we all have running now, and it seems to limit top speed of the motor along with limiting acceleration past a point so no matter how much you increased the volts, you just won't get any faster no matter what you do to the motor (only solution was to change gearing)... but now let me introduce you to mode #3... welcome to unlimited, as in... you get whatever your batteries can deliver... which is out of this world.

So before going out to test with the rear wheel off the ground @ 44 volts, on mode #2 my top speed was 52 mph on the 13T, so I switched to mode #3 and the thing made a spool up sound all the way up to 72 mph!! On 44 volts!! So, for you guys who are running 72V I can't even begin to imagine the performance you'll get out of this guy... this will eat BBSHDs for breakfast with mode #3 unlocked...

So.... how the heck do you engage mode #3? Quite simple, in the stock controller there is a connector called Power Switch that has three cables, one blue, one black and one pink. I used a 32 ohm resistor from black to pink and that will engage mode #3 and the guys who are running 72V can probably hit 60mph out this guy... you can probably use a SPDT switch if you want to engage the modes on the fly... but let me tell you that your amp draw will be pegged at whatever max your controller does.

G.

Nice find, Gman! How did you stumble on this information? You have to give use some amp readings after you play around with this setting. Or does it still get limited to 40 amps?
 
I have no idea. What voltage are you running?

On mine when I lift the wheel off the ground it will do 70 mph with the 33 ohm resistor across these; and I'll try taking a video of this. The Cyclone controller has 3 power modes, that is not something I made up; and this is not a "fix" its simply unlocking a feature that is not very well documented, or obvious on this controller.

It did make a noticeable difference on my commute to work today; but not in how fast the bike went (this switch doesn't give you an 30 extra amps burst to go 20 mph faster), it simply unlocks motor acceleration and RPM limit; and again, my top end today didn't change much, but now I can "almost" reach cruising speeds 30mph in 5th gear as opposed to be in 8th gear; which is huge for me, the motor spins a whole lot faster so my drivetrain is going to last a lot longer.

G.

DingusMcGee said:
gman1971,

today, On the street with pink and black wires hooked together with 33 ohm resistor between I get 35 mph. fully charged.

Next, Unhooked pink and black and I get 38.0 mph. fully charged

Looking at max I see I have gotten 41.9mph. fully charged.

Where has the extra 3.9 mph gone?

Your fix doesn't seem to make much difference on this controller except the fix seems to go in the wrong direction.
 
gman1971,

52v Luna Triangle Samsung battery. I have had 40 amp going through the controller without the pink/black connection:pbc when I had 86v = fully charged 52v battery and fully charged 24v battery with amp guage in series.

I currently do not have much instrumentation on either of the the two C3000's mid drive bikes at my house to accurately assess whether I do get improved road performance with your suggested pbc.
 
DingusMcGee said:
gman1971,

52v Luna Triangle Samsung battery. I have had 40 amp going through the controller without the pink/black connection:pbc when I had 86v = fully charged 52v battery and fully charged 24v battery with amp guage in series.

I currently do not have much instrumentation on either of the the two C3000's mid drive bikes at my house to accurately assess whether I do get improved road performance with your suggested pbc.

The capacitors inside my controller are rated at 80V, I opened mine today to inspect for burnt marks or some clue as to why its cutting out at 35 (1.4 are my headlights), so I would strongly advice against running anything above 80V...

It could also be you have the cables on your controller are flipped around, b/c let me tell you, you should notice a change in acceleration... my bike is a monster even if the controller isn't pulling more than 1600 watts for some unknown reason; I can cruise 30mph on 6th gear with the insane amount of RPM the motor has... and when you lift the wheel it spools up to 74.2 mph with the 48-11T, its just plain scary!!

If you only run at 52V you shouldn't see much improvement if you're already drag limited like I was... but you'll notice a much better acceleration since you can pull top speed on a shorter gear which means faster acceleration.

With that I, I also went ahead and tested mode #1 too, and mode#1 behaves more like what you described, about 10-15% slower than mode#2... so try connecting center to blue instead. Test the bike on the stand before going out... you can toggle the jumper while motor is running and you'll see the difference right away. Believe me, its just INSANE. I am taking a video of the bike tonight to post it.

I am trying to get to the bottom of why my controller is only giving me 1600ish watts and not the 2100 watts it used to pull when I first installed it.

G.
 
gman1971 said:
I am trying to get to the bottom of why my controller is only giving me 1600ish watts and not the 2100 watts it used to pull when I first installed it.

G.

Are the batteries going bad? Do you have a meter on that can record minimum voltage that the batteries are dropping down to under hard acceleration?
 
StinkyGoalieGuy said:
gman1971 said:
I am trying to get to the bottom of why my controller is only giving me 1600ish watts and not the 2100 watts it used to pull when I first installed it.

G.

Are the batteries going bad? Do you have a meter on that can record minimum voltage that the batteries are dropping down to under hard acceleration?

I don't think so, but I could be wrong... the batts drop to 45 volts within a few miles of riding 20-30 amp draw, but they hold in the 44-45 region even at full load and only at 8 miles they get down to ~43 volts. Internal resistance is 0.9 mOhm, so still pretty good.

So I've just poked at the throttle voltage and I am not mistaken its reading 3.55 volts at full throttle... so it might be that I am not actually giving it all it has like someone suggested?... and running partial throttle, well that would explain it... This 3.55 just doesn't seem right to me. Any thoughts? Considering the input of the throttle hall is 4.7, I was expecting the output at full throttle should close to 4.7, not 3.55...

Here is the video of my ebike with the mode #3 unlocked...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig&feature=youtu.be

Enjoy
G.
 
Fixed my problem and I am back to normal, well now its more than normal... its super-freaking-awesome. The motor peaks at 2100 watts again.

Apparently one of the contacts for the throttle connector was corroded pretty bad from the salt adventure and even I thought I decontaminated everything, this guy wasn't so it wasn't making a good contact (intermittent contact) So I went ahead and soldered all the throttle/on-off switch cables directly to the controller; the only connectors left are the main power phases and the ignition bullet connector, all others are now hardwired and heatshrinked... technically speaking I could probably dunk the bike in a lake and it should (hopefully) keep on running... :D

The results are out of this world... in mode #3 with only 43 volts left on the pack the bike will pull a wheelie at 10 mph on the 32T chainring!! Its a rush of power that is out of this world... I can't wait to commute to work tomorrow with a full pack... however, I am sure my Wh/mile is going to double... with the thing peaking at 49 amps and sustained of low 40s its going to guzzle the pack FAST!! We'll see!!

I am hoping to get into the high 30s now that the controller rev-limiter is being turned off... I also saw where the shunt is on the controller too, so the next mod will be shunting the thing to get even more ridiculous power, then 72V shunted... lets see how long the motor lasts!! :) I'll be buying a 3-position SPDT switch to use the power switch in the controller to tame the bike... but until the weekend I'll be running it on mode #3...

Mode #3 is highly recommended...

G.
 
gman1971,

we are all listening. I did add the pbc to the Trek 69-er and it does seem more aggressive on the accelerations. I fixed the resistor onto a 2.8mm 3 Way Electrical Connector for the Trek 69-er. see pic

Mod IMG_6475.jpg

Interesting find on the cap voltage. Suppose you had a nominal 72v LiFePO4 battery then at charging voltage max the caps, if the controller was on, would see 3.65 x 24 = 87.6 v and with Li-Ion 4.2 x 20 = 84v. Either style of 72v batt pack at full charge would be pushing these controller components to overload conditions.

My thoughts: nominal 60 volts is okay for the controller but when I add 24v again I will have a different controller mounted and save this unit for < 72v.

Salt water contamination: I phased out the zip locks bags and built a 3/16 ply box around the out side of the triangle. I did RTV silicone the ebrake connections at the handles. I also applied poly-U foam to the upper 2 openings. I will trim the excess foam when it is soundly dry and paint it other than white primer. see pic

Mod IMG_6477.jpg
 
Thats great Dingus, the difference on mine was noticeable as well, and even more so now with the controller back to pulling the correct amps.

I only run LiPos on mine, never ran LiFePo, and probably wont on this bike since they are not as "amp happy" as LiPos are and these LiFePos are twice or even triple the price than LiPos. To date I have never run this thing at anything above 50.2 volts, and let me be clear that I am really happy as it is now so I think I'll be holding on my 72V adventure... maybe the next bike I build will be using a much beefier DH/FR frame with a Cyclone 3000W kit @ 72V for some serious off-road fun... and I have a gut feeling that a shunt-modded 72V C3000 kit will probably get to 50 or 60 mph... some food for thought...

My commute today was a totally new experience; HOLY SHIT POWER BATMAN!! Its official, my controller is back! no more struggling uphills stuck at 35 amps, now it just goes up the hill like nothing is there; but in exchange to this newly found performance my Wh/mile went from low 40s, high 30s up to 55 Wh/mi, not super bad, but I should probably start considering new larger batteries for this guy and give the 12 Ah multistars for my wife's ebike.

Today I was cruising at 30mph in 4th gear without a single hitch, pretty much ran it on 4th gear for most of the commute, so I can safely say that with this amount of power and RPMs the motor has I probably don't need as many as gears for the motor as I needed before (I just dummy pedal along), and definitively I don't need an 11T anymore!! I also found out that Bike will pull a wheelie if I am not careful off the line... Another interesting thing is that the Cyclone controller won't engage the full power all at once when stomping on the gas, it has some sort of smooth ramp up when in mode #3, like a gradual rush of power build up so its fairly easy on the gears b/c I don't hear any teeth engagement clacking when shifting, not that it really matter anyways since I am running in 4th or 5th gear (like 24T) so the chain has little torque going through it. I will build a proper SPDT switch mod like you did this weekend so I can toggle between modes as well. But I think I'll commute on mode #2 like it was before, mode #3 seems great for doing off-road fun stuff, but for commuting I think it puts too much power, way more than I really need.

Salt water contamination: Good idea, in the end tho, I simply soldered all signal/control wires together so there won't be the slightest chance of salt corrosion anymore. I will probably build a battery box to replace the styrofoam box at some point, but so far the styrofoam box is working rather well. All my XT90 connectors have the cable ends hot glued for watertightness so water doesn't get inside my main power connectors but this is been a learning curve for sure :D


G.

DingusMcGee said:
gman1971,

we are all listening. I did add the pbc to the Trek 69-er and it does seem more aggressive on the accelerations. I fixed the resistor onto a 2.8mm 3 Way Electrical Connector for the Trek 69-er. see pic

View attachment 1

Interesting find on the cap voltage. Suppose you had a nominal 72v LiFePO4 battery then at charging voltage max the caps, if the controller was on, would see 3.65 x 24 = 87.6 v and with Li-Ion 4.2 x 20 = 84v. Either style of 72v batt pack at full charge would be pushing these controller components to overload conditions.

My thoughts: nominal 60 volts is okay for the controller but when I add 24v again I will have a different controller mounted and save this unit for < 72v.

Salt water contamination: I phased out the zip locks bags and built a 3/16 ply box around the out side of the triangle. I did RTV silicone the ebrake connections at the handles. I also applied poly-U foam to the upper 2 openings. I will trim the excess foam when it is soundly dry and paint it other than white primer. see pic

 
I use 74v lipo or 82v fully charged and it tops out at 38mph, in top gear. I heard some people have gotten over 40mph on 60v but not me.
 
evolutiongts said:
I use 74v lipo or 82v fully charged and it tops out at 38mph, in top gear. I heard some people have gotten over 40mph on 60v but not me.

The Capacitors on the controller are rated at 80V, so I would advice against going over 80V. Perhaps this is the reason of decreased performance, you might've damaged the caps on the controller.

Which brings me to the question, what are you running to achieve 82 volts? 20S? Because 18S Lipo is, ... 50.2 Volts for a fully charged 12S Lipo, + 25.1 for a fully charged 6S lipo = 75.3 Volts?

FYI, I can hit 38mph on my 48V ebike now after unlocking mode #3, provided there is no headwind, then its 36mph; but range goes to heck in a hand basket when going all out.

A 40mph top speed out of 4 kW (82 x 49 amp limit) seems like something isn't right. I am peaking 2.2 kW and getting to 38mph... at 4 kW it should be doing close to 50 mph, if not faster.

G.
 
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