new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[gman1971]

The bike looks really clean Gman!

I really like what you did with your fairing. And your fender holder seems of much better quality than those I bought initially with the bike.

Thanks Adam;

yeah, those fenders where the so-called "premium" fenders for 20" front and 26" rears, and they weren't cheap... so I am glad these turned out to be decent, especially after you warned me about KMX fenders poor quality... I was pleasantly surprised.

I also think those will bolt right onto your suspension, so I can't wait... I know, I keep saying that... but ATM I am still wrenching things on the trike and I have a lot of things to finish before its officially done. I deflated the front tires to 50 psi and seems to improve the ride, but I think once I have the suspension I'll be able to keep the pressure higher than that. The rear so far hasn't given me much of of a hassle... so its good.

Today I finally installed all the missing hardware from the motor and reinforced the motor mount even further with a similar solution to what robocam did, except that I only did one side (since one sides is already bolted directly to the frame anyways)

The chainguide solution has worked great so far; so now I can shift the two chanrings as well so its all good. I almost hooked up the horn and the high beams today, but with all other things I have to do (non trike related) I ended up not doing it.

G.

 

[worldpax]

Ordered my Cyclone and battery on Saturday. What's the typical response time for the package hitting the door? Excited!

Sent from my MT2L03 using Tapatalk

 

[le15otl]

From Taiwan? mine arrived in 3 days but i think 2 weeks is typical

 

[worldpax]

Sorry, should have specified. Ordered from Luna.

Sent from my MT2L03 using Tapatalk

 

[gman1971]

Mine was sent USPS Priority so it took 3 days to WI from CA; oh, it WILL require signature (most likely) so be there to get it or you'll have to drive to the Post Office to sign up for it.

Good luck with your build.

G.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

How is the free wheel mounted on to the motor shaft? If I were to buy the motor alone, as opposed to the whole kit from Luna, :
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=224

Is it a 20mm shaft? Is this the freewheel adapter I would need:
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=229

 

[gman1971]

Yes, that would be it. Thats all you need.

I don't think a 15T freewheel will work with the 44-48T combo; if you were to use a 15T you'll need a 44-44-24T to make up for the lack of short gearing... In my trike, in 1st gear which is a 42T cog, 48T cassette chainring, 44T drivechainring and 14T motor freewheel my trike does 22 mph and gets there in 1 second flat, on 2nd gear 36T cog it does 28 mph, on 3rd gear it does 33 mph, on 4th gear it does 37 mph and on 5th gear it does 41 mph, I've managed to squeeze 48 mph out of 6th gear but at current stock 2900 Watt limit my top end is 50 mph,... so I think the sweet spot is the 14T motor freewheel with the 44-48T chainring combo; or conversely if you can get a 15T freewheel then you'll need to keep the 44-44 chainring 1:1 ratio. With the current gearing setup it allows me to run the gears closer to what you'll see on a real car; but you can be on the 42T cog all day long for super low wear on the chain. I think my crank is probably spinning close to 300 RPM so the forces throughout the internal drivetrain are kept super low so this thing will last a long time, and on top of that it sounds like an F-1; which I like too.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Well, last night I shunt-modded the Cyclone controller for a whopping 70 amps @ 18S LiPo, and the trike is unbelievable... it spins the rear wheel in 1st gear all the way to redline... its just insane; a go-kart on three wheels. Obviously after this mod it requires some serious throttle management from me, and most likely I'll be taming the beast with the CA so I will work on some upgrades to limit the power at the CA level to prevent this much insanity.

Today during a quick speed run I managed to squeeze 56 mph out of it on a straight line, and power peaked @ 4.0 kW... but considering that CA has peaked at 5.1 kW at some point I think it truly has 60 MPH in it; unfortunately I did let go off the gas in 6th gear.

If my I can break the 60 mph record this weekend I'll be really happy; and I think its doable now since I'll be attempting to break the record without the rear hard cases and with lighter and slimmer clothing. Regardless of if I hit or not 60 mph, I think the trike was a success. The reinforced motor mount hasn't moved a bit so I am pleased with that too, even at 5 kW; however, I don't know how long the chains will last running them at 5 kW in a regular basis, even at max Cyclone controller RPM, so chances are that if I want to go any faster I'll need to run higher voltage and get a different controller to get the voltage up to 85 and spin the motor even faster... maybe Evolutiongts can try this since he also has another trike with a C3000W installed and also happens to have the Sabvoton controller handy and he can just romp the thing on 8kW and see what happens...

What I know for sure tho is that that running the trike at 5 kW will drain the packs in less than 1/2 hour, and at ~50 MPH you'll get around ~20 miles on a single charge; not what I built the trike for tho, but good to have plenty of margin...

Cheers.
G.

 

[gman1971]

Well folks, I just had to try the record attempt tonight; just couldn't wait for the weekend so off I went... and when I was about to clinch the 60 mph crown I ran out of road, I was doing 58 mph at 5200 Watts on 9th gear (13T) and still accelerating... Now it is clear that the trike has it; so it will soon be joining the exclusive 60+mph club of eBikes... The battery pack was at 75% capacity in this run so I would consider that a good capacity for reaching the goal. This weekend I'll run a fully charged pack.

So upon return to home I checked for temps and everything checked out. I did noticed some boom flex during the run, especially on 9th gear (don't try this with an aluminum trike), but at the end of the run the motor was only warm to the touch, controller was ambient temp. I also noticed that the controller is peaking @ 86 amps, not sure if its a bogus number or what, but if its peaking at 86 amps it should be pumping almost 6 kW, and that is very close to what Motomoto ran on his 66mph mid-drive record... so this weekend I'll have to find a longer road to shatter the 60 mph barrier but I think its in Alpha One...

I will only run one more attempt this weekend and after that, regardless of the outcome its over. The boom flex gave me something to think about, I sure don't want the motor smashed in my face at 60 mph. I'll probably de-shunt-mod the controller too, maybe just leave it at 50 amps instead of 40 amps, but there is absolutely no need to have this amount of power unless you want to kill yourself real fast. Right now the thing is insane off the line, it roasts the tire on command... not what I am looking forward to have on the trike; although it is a lot of fun tho.

Before attempting the record I finally wired the HOTAS to control the Cycle Analyst as well, so now I don't have to bend over to change the screens and I can do that while riding with a touch of a button with my left hand. I will be adding a throttle cable tomorrow so perhaps I won't need to de-shunt the controller and just use CA as a governor, we'll see.

Rock on; oh, and don't try this with a Bafang... hahaha.

G.

 

[juanfeli]

Congratulations G, no you can compare 0 to 60 times.

 

[gman1971]

Congratulations G, no you can compare 0 to 60 times.

LOL, compare with what? b/c compared to a car still dog slow... but it really feels like 1000 horsepower tho..

G.

 

[2old]

dekes, really clean build; are you using the "stock" mounting system or did you modify it? Also, what battery, please?

 

[juanfeli]

Can you please help me to connect the CA3 to my stock C3k controller?

I’ve been using it with a Shunt-CA3 but I haven’t connected the extra cable to the controller. Throttle cable has been connected to the controller.

So I don’t know how to start as I’d like to make all changes reversible because I may buy another Cyclone or part of it. Also I have another throttle to play with.

I don’t understand how the ignition switch would work after the changes and if is needed and also considering to buy at some point another controller. (Pahserunner???)

Here some photos:

 

[gman1971]

Juan,
I wouldn't bother connecting the controller to the CA. I've already tried with really disappointing results: The cyclone is TOO powerful and TOO fast for the CA to manage the throttle even at 001 setting in the smoothing... and then you really neuter the setup. I tried several ways, either as a throttle-drive-the-amps or throttle-limiter feature. Its not fast enough to deal with the controller. By the time it hits 40 amps the thing reduces throttle but its too late as you've already peaked at 40 amps. Oh, and if you ever disconnect the throttle you'll have a runaway bike; almost happened to me on my trike so I repeat, the CA is NOT a replacement for proper right hand throttle management. It is a fairly complex setup to do and I am not sure if its worth it.

Yes, yes, I am sure it works great on the wimpy Bafangs and on hubs, but on a motor that spins from 0 to 4500 RPM in 1 second, the CA is simply too slow to control the throttle to prevent what you're trying to prevent. If you want better throttle management get a sinewave programmable controller, that's pretty much my take on this matter. Until I can source a Savboton or one of those Adapttos or however they are called I will using the CA exclusively as a display, but for nothing else... seriously, not worth the effort and/nor the risk. Especially if you are not sure what you're doing.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Here it is my entire Cyclone fleet during today's weekend adventure: my Cyclone eBike and the beast Cyclone eTrike...

The third bike on the right is a sore GNG turd that will soon to be scrapped since I've begun construction of a 2nd Cyclone eTrike... so stay tuned. This new eTrike I might install a Cyclone 7.5kW mid drive on it just to see how stupid fast I can get it...

Cyclone FTW...

G.

 

[juanfeli]

Thanks G, a new sinewave programmable controller will be then.

I'm looking more for the motor temperature functionality than to tame the throttle and could be nice also the low voltage cut.

To get use to the fast responsiveness of the throttle wasn't difficult or a concern. I like it the way that it is.

Juan,
I wouldn't bother connecting the controller to the CA. I've already tried with really disappointing results: The cyclone is TOO powerful and TOO fast for the CA to manage the throttle even at 001 setting in the smoothing... and then you really neuter the setup. I tried several ways, either as a throttle-drive-the-amps or throttle-limiter feature. Its not fast enough to deal with the controller. By the time it hits 40 amps the thing reduces throttle but its too late as you've already peaked at 40 amps. Oh, and if you ever disconnect the throttle you'll have a runaway bike; almost happened to me on my trike so I repeat, the CA is NOT a replacement for proper right hand throttle management. It is a fairly complex setup to do and I am not sure if its worth it.

Yes, yes, I am sure it works great on the wimpy Bafangs and on hubs, but on a motor that spins from 0 to 4500 RPM in 1 second, the CA is simply too slow to control the throttle to prevent what you're trying to prevent. If you want better throttle management get a sinewave programmable controller, that's pretty much my take on this matter. Until I can source a Savboton or one of those Adapttos or however they are called I will using the CA exclusively as a display, but for nothing else... seriously, not worth the effort and/nor the risk. Especially if you are not sure what you're doing.

G.

 

[robocam]

Is this the case even at the stock amperage? I just got a Cycle Analyst V3 (haven't hooked it up though), but the main reason I purchased it was for the speed limiting function but I wanted to play with the current limiting as well, maybe using the pot. Why does it runaway if the throttle is disconnected?

Oh, and are you talking about a V2 or V3? I thought the V3 had a faster processor.

...I wouldn't bother connecting the controller to the CA. I've already tried with really disappointing results: The cyclone is TOO powerful and TOO fast for the CA to manage the throttle even at 001 setting in the smoothing... and then you really neuter the setup. I tried several ways, either as a throttle-drive-the-amps or throttle-limiter feature. Its not fast enough to deal with the controller. By the time it hits 40 amps the thing reduces throttle but its too late as you've already peaked at 40 amps. Oh, and if you ever disconnect the throttle you'll have a runaway bike; almost happened to me on my trike so I repeat, the CA is NOT a replacement for proper right hand throttle management. It is a fairly complex setup to do and I am not sure if its worth it.

 

[eride]

Does anyone have dimension drawings on this 3000w Cyclone motor?

 

[dekes1]

@2old - it's mostly the stock mounting kit with a few minor mods. The stock tensioner setup (the zip tie and linear spring) is rubbish, so I drilled the tensioner mount to accept a circular spring (the type of spring found on v-brakes). Much easier to adjust. I also replaced the stock bolts with case hardened ones that are 3mm longer.
The battery packs I run are all custom 18650-based. I have four packs that range from 14s7p (about 52vnominal) up to a 19s10p (about 72v nominal). I run them all at 50a normally but will sometimes let the bigger packs run up to 70a

@gman, regarding the CycleAnalyst , I strongly disagree. All electric motors produce maximum torque at 0 rpm. There's nothing special about the cyclone motor that makes it a poor match with the CA. It does not accelerate to max rpm faster or produce torque sooner than any other BLDC motor. Having the ability to monitor current, voltage, motor temp, aH, Etc is godsend. Plus intelligent throttle mapping, manage LVC, closed-loop current control, speedometer, speed limiting, I mean the list is almost endless. There's a reason nearly every well known bike builder uses the CA

 

[juanfeli]

@dekes - Did you connect your CA3 to the cyclone controller? If so, can you please let us know how you did it?

 

[dekes1]

@juanfeli, no sorry i did not. i bought one of them cheap Sunwin 15fet controllers to take advantage of the flexible LVC and wired up the CA to that. I suspect you may have seen this page before, but if not it's a good representation of what's needed to hook one up to any controller : ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-analyst-connector-controller/

 

[juanfeli]

Yes I saw it thank you. But I don't have experience with this kind of stuff, so I don't want to mess with my only controller. Perhaps if somebody has upgraded his and can sell the Cyclone controller to me, I'll do it.

But again, so far the only one that has done it is G and He found that is not worth it. (I think that to a CA2)

I'll do it just to learn more and to share my experience here.

Otherwise, I'll wait for a Phaserunner. I'm interested in that one because with it I'd be a little closer to a posible upgrade to a Tangent Drive. If I want to. So far I'm very pleased with my C3000

 

[2old]

dekes, thanks for your reply; helps immensely.

 

[gman1971]

I have 2.4...

After almost having a runaway trike I would never, ever, in my sane remaining life hook CA to ANYTHING electric with more power than my RC18 radio control buggy...

If you want more control over the power then a) learn throttle management and self-restrain on your right hand or b) spend the money on a nice controller designed to control the throttle from the get-go and not as an afterthought; seriously, I would not risk anything of this kind of money to a 140 dollar device.

V2 or V3... doesn't matter; I wouldn't bother hooking the CA with anything mid-drive since the Cyclone motor can spin so much faster than the CA can respond to do anything. In 1st gear my motor spools to max RPM almost instantaneously, peaking 80 amps in a blink of a second, CA can't do squat b/c by the time the amps are over whatever I set as max, its already too late. You get a jerk on the acceleration. Plus then there is the shenanigans with the resistor and the diode... gimme a break...

Its your money and your bike, but I would consider investing on a high quality sinewave controller before mucking around with this CA ever again.

G.

Is this the case even at the stock amperage? I just got a Cycle Analyst V3 (haven't hooked it up though), but the main reason I purchased it was for the speed limiting function but I wanted to play with the current limiting as well, maybe using the pot. Why does it runaway if the throttle is disconnected?

Oh, and are you talking about a V2 or V3? I thought the V3 had a faster processor.

...I wouldn't bother connecting the controller to the CA. I've already tried with really disappointing results: The cyclone is TOO powerful and TOO fast for the CA to manage the throttle even at 001 setting in the smoothing... and then you really neuter the setup. I tried several ways, either as a throttle-drive-the-amps or throttle-limiter feature. Its not fast enough to deal with the controller. By the time it hits 40 amps the thing reduces throttle but its too late as you've already peaked at 40 amps. Oh, and if you ever disconnect the throttle you'll have a runaway bike; almost happened to me on my trike so I repeat, the CA is NOT a replacement for proper right hand throttle management. It is a fairly complex setup to do and I am not sure if its worth it.

 

[gman1971]

@2old - it's mostly the stock mounting kit with a few minor mods. The stock tensioner setup (the zip tie and linear spring) is rubbish, so I drilled the tensioner mount to accept a circular spring (the type of spring found on v-brakes). Much easier to adjust. I also replaced the stock bolts with case hardened ones that are 3mm longer.
The battery packs I run are all custom 18650-based. I have four packs that range from 14s7p (about 52vnominal) up to a 19s10p (about 72v nominal). I run them all at 50a normally but will sometimes let the bigger packs run up to 70a

@gman, regarding the CycleAnalyst , I strongly disagree. All electric motors produce maximum torque at 0 rpm. There's nothing special about the cyclone motor that makes it a poor match with the CA. It does not accelerate to max rpm faster or produce torque sooner than any other BLDC motor. Having the ability to monitor current, voltage, motor temp, aH, Etc is godsend. Plus intelligent throttle mapping, manage LVC, closed-loop current control, speedometer, speed limiting, I mean the list is almost endless. There's a reason nearly every well known bike builder uses the CA

Lets agree to disagree.

I understand that a motor has full torque at zero RPM, and that I would keep the CA as a measuring tool, but I will never let CA manage the throttle ever again. A controller is only as good as its programming, and I've programmed enough PIDs in my life to know when a PID loop is properly implemented to when its not. Any tight control loop of this kind need a much faster refresh rate to govern the throttle, and this isn't very fast, I get jerks all over the place when trying to hold steady 10 amp when cruising at 10 amps; then the instructions are a mess... you have to create this concoction 2-10k resistor with a diode shenanigans to use the throttle etc...

So, it took a while to get it working and then after playing with it for half a day I came to the realization that why on Earth would I want to neuter my 6.5kW trike? well, I don't neuter my car... I just don't push the accelerator all the way down so when I need the power I have it on command. So, I made the executive decision that nothing available as of today beats my brain and my right hand at throttle management and gear selection; same as automatic cars, this is the reason why I only drive manuals, oh I so hate being told what gear I should be in... the day I'll drive an auto is the day I lose my left leg or my right hand or both; until then, I chose my own destiny.

G.