new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[RageNR]

I went CA2 due to price and cabling,.

You buy directly from Grin? Right now on their store site, CA2 is $100, and CA3 is $130. Shipping to my location is $15. Also, no tax.
After looking at all the resellers listed on the site, direct from Grin looks to be the cheapest. No tax either.

 

[robocam]

144P? =) I think this sounds more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig&t=7m56s

Gman, I would like to get an idea of how loud the motor + planetary is. Can you post some videos of what it sounds like? I would like to hear it without any road or wind noise, so if you can prop up the wheels and do it while the bike is stationary, that would great. Thanks!

This video should give you an idea how loud the motor is ripping through the gears; btw, this was filmed before I modded the controller to run 6.5 kW and this was a 2nd-5th gear pull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1sq_r6oDRM

G.

 

[robocam]

We have 4 kids =) and I like to tow their friends around for fun too (like at a campground or a park, not on the street). I was initially going to use the front derailleur, but then I decided against it because I can already go plenty fast enough, and I thought I'd kill myself if I went too fast (I just can't control myself). Now that I have the CA, I can limit my speed, so that's less of a problem. A front shifter would also mess up my current handlebar arrangement =) So the front derailleur just sits there to keep the chain from falling off for now. Not having to mess with a front shifter makes things so much simpler. I guess if I ever decide to reduce the load on the chain and associated components, I might consider using the 44T, but everything just lines up better with the inner 32T chainring. I also don't put thousands of miles on my bike per year, so wear is less of a concern for me.

I was thinking about the gearing, and when I saw your video showing 74 mph as your unloaded speed, I remembered testing my top speed using the 32T chainring. I assume you were using the 44T or 48T when you tested your top speed. Since mine is a 29er and I run a 52V battery, my top speed is 71.8 mph unloaded. This is with a 32T on the front going to an 11T in the rear.

Nice!! I had no idea you were also a bike-tow-truck too You must have a large family then!

Ic, interesting that you have a triple but no front derailleur. I am now running a 48-48-24 on the trike (from a 44-48-24), both 48 and 24 are in use... but I rarely use the 24T except when I am towing something heavy or offroad and I need to climb.

Yes, both trikes stay; I am building the second trike for my wife. So we can all go on super-ultra long range rides (whew, I said that) and not have to worry about the return trip at any time. Once Alpha Two is done I might build a bare bones third one for one of my sons, we'll see.

As for storage, I treat my trikes like cars. When not in use they are parked in the center of the garage, one after the other, between my two cars. I am also getting rid of all my two wheeled bikes except my carbon roadbike and the 1st Cyclone prototype. I don't see myself returning to the two wheel club in the foreseeable future.

G.

Thanks for the tip about the images. I'll have to try that. My images have been randomly appearing as links and images, and I've been wondering why.

I've actually been pulling a trailer for a few years now, but it wasn't until this year that I decided to hook a bunch of them together. I don't think I'll be tapping into the hydraulic line. It seems like so much can go wrong if I did that. Maybe I'll buy a big box bike and make another trailer with it. That way I can use its brakes, and I can mount my other mid drive to it for assist.

I'm using a 44-44-32. The middle 44 exists only to improve my chainline. I don't and can't use it. The front derailleur isn't even hooked up. I only bought it to prevent chain drops.

So why are you building a second trike? Are you going to keep both of them? I'm having trouble figuring out how to store all my bikes.

 

[gman1971]

144P? =) I think this sounds more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig&t=7m56s

Gman, I would like to get an idea of how loud the motor + planetary is. Can you post some videos of what it sounds like? I would like to hear it without any road or wind noise, so if you can prop up the wheels and do it while the bike is stationary, that would great. Thanks!

This video should give you an idea how loud the motor is ripping through the gears; btw, this was filmed before I modded the controller to run 6.5 kW and this was a 2nd-5th gear pull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1sq_r6oDRM

G.

That works, thanks for pointing it out, I forgot I also have a Cyclone eBike somewhere too... hahaha... dang... I don't even remember my own videos... oh well...

 

[gman1971]

I went CA2 due to price and cabling,.

You buy directly from Grin? Right now on their store site, CA2 is $100, and CA3 is $130. Shipping to my location is $15. Also, no tax.
After looking at all the resellers listed on the site, direct from Grin looks to be the cheapest. No tax either.

Yes directly from Grin

G.

 

[gman1971]

Yes, 52V nominal vs 44.4V nominal makes a huge difference in RPM with this motor. Mine fully charged is barely 50.2V and yours fully charged is probably more like 60+V. In the video the battery is ~45V too, so that makes a huge difference in RPM vs something fully charged at 60V. My trike on 18S fully charged 75.5V on the 11T would hit ~125 mph at the wheel, theoretically, b/c I am not going to venture spinning a bike wheel at 125 mph just to see how fast it would go... So while they both have identical gearing, ebike vs etrike, both have different voltages which make a huge difference in motor RPM.

For me having the front derailleur was a no-brainer. I wanted to have the ability to chose between towing at low speed and cruising at high speed without sacrificing chain life, or requiring to make a "tangential edition" motor mount.

G.

We have 4 kids =) and I like to tow their friends around for fun too (like at a campground or a park, not on the street). I was initially going to use the front derailleur, but then I decided against it because I can already go plenty fast enough, and I thought I'd kill myself if I went too fast (I just can't control myself). Now that I have the CA, I can limit my speed, so that's less of a problem. A front shifter would also mess up my current handlebar arrangement =) So the front derailleur just sits there to keep the chain from falling off for now. Not having to mess with a front shifter makes things so much simpler. I guess if I ever decide to reduce the load on the chain and associated components, I might consider using the 44T, but everything just lines up better with the inner 32T chainring. I also don't put thousands of miles on my bike per year, so wear is less of a concern for me.

I was thinking about the gearing, and when I saw your video showing 74 mph as your unloaded speed, I remembered testing my top speed using the 32T chainring. I assume you were using the 44T or 48T when you tested your top speed. Since mine is a 29er and I run a 52V battery, my top speed is 71.8 mph unloaded. This is with a 32T on the front going to an 11T in the rear.

Nice!! I had no idea you were also a bike-tow-truck too You must have a large family then!

Ic, interesting that you have a triple but no front derailleur. I am now running a 48-48-24 on the trike (from a 44-48-24), both 48 and 24 are in use... but I rarely use the 24T except when I am towing something heavy or offroad and I need to climb.

Yes, both trikes stay; I am building the second trike for my wife. So we can all go on super-ultra long range rides (whew, I said that) and not have to worry about the return trip at any time. Once Alpha Two is done I might build a bare bones third one for one of my sons, we'll see.

As for storage, I treat my trikes like cars. When not in use they are parked in the center of the garage, one after the other, between my two cars. I am also getting rid of all my two wheeled bikes except my carbon roadbike and the 1st Cyclone prototype. I don't see myself returning to the two wheel club in the foreseeable future.

G.

Thanks for the tip about the images. I'll have to try that. My images have been randomly appearing as links and images, and I've been wondering why.

I've actually been pulling a trailer for a few years now, but it wasn't until this year that I decided to hook a bunch of them together. I don't think I'll be tapping into the hydraulic line. It seems like so much can go wrong if I did that. Maybe I'll buy a big box bike and make another trailer with it. That way I can use its brakes, and I can mount my other mid drive to it for assist.

I'm using a 44-44-32. The middle 44 exists only to improve my chainline. I don't and can't use it. The front derailleur isn't even hooked up. I only bought it to prevent chain drops.

So why are you building a second trike? Are you going to keep both of them? I'm having trouble figuring out how to store all my bikes.

 

[RageNR]

Yes directly from Grin.

You should find this intersting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aGCecQNeyc

 

[le15otl]

That looks great I wonder how it would deal with the Cyclone power.
Not too bad at $130 .

 

[le15otl]

Actually i'm wrong... cassette alone is £345

 

[RageNR]

Yeah, the whole kit is only $1,400 cool USA printer smudges.
Sounds like a great deal to me! Reminds me of buying a $6000 sound system for your car that cost $1500.

 

[DingusMcGee]

My purchases from Sick Industries came very promptly. They beat buying from Cyclone Taiwan all to h......

The old motor freewheel from Luna C-3000 was on the shaft very tight. I used a heavy duty 2-3 bolt gear puller to remove it. Two washer headed bolts were placed behind the gear teeth and a cable tie around the 2 bolts was used to keep the bolts pushed against the gear teeth. The Sick Industries motor hub freewheels teeth sit out further from the motor so the spacer at the crank is removed giving perfect planar alignment of the two motor gear chain rings.

The 20mm adapter hub has quite sticky aluminum and snags when threading into the motor gear cartridge but copper anti seize made it possible to hand turn it. The Sick motor hub is longer than the OEM hub leaving the motor shaft recessed [visible on pic]. The Allen nut just makes full contact with the very outer end of the motor shaft. It looks possible to add another Allen nut closer towards motor Allen nut if the OEM one of the new hub adapter slips off the end with the adapter.

The BB chainring to the motor on the White front freewheel hub and motor gear [as measured with a straight edge] lie and travel to the eye precisely flat --- no wobble. The creeks and clicks are entirely gone. I left the old Luna Standard BB axle along with the square taper cranks in place and all works fine. Is the $80 hub from Sick as good as this? I suspect the <$20.00 cheepie is no where close.

 

[DingusMcGee]

That looks great I wonder how it would deal with the Cyclone power.
Not too bad at $130

.


My CAv3 DPS works fine at 72v but costs $136 from Luna. I made a special compact wiring harness that sits near the controller for the CA/throttle connections. It has 6pin M & F plugs and three 3-pin M & F plugs for the throttle/on-off connections. This way I can simply plug the OEM throttle set up back in place if the CA quits for some reason.

 

[gman1971]

Yes directly from Grin.

You should find this intersting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aGCecQNeyc

Saw the SRAM new e-tap gruppo at the local bike shop a couple of weeks ago, some guy showed up at the store with one of those new SRAM e-tap stuff... out of my league tho...

G.

 

[juanfeli]

It is out of my league too. But fewer gears with higher increments between them must be the correct approach for mid drives. Nice DIY project to try to replicate.

 

[gman1971]

It is out of my league too. But fewer gears with higher increments between them must be the correct approach for mid drives. Nice DIY project to try to replicate.

To solve this I went with the Shimano XT 10-speed shifters, these have multi-release, so I can upshift two gears (go down two smaller cogs) in a single press... this took care of the problem for me.

G.

 

[robocam]

There's a connector for the CA on the Cyclone controller?

CA 2.4 DPS here. There is no need for an adapter to the shunt. The molex connector plugs right into the CA DPS plug.

G.

 

[robocam]

I'm using a CA3 with this shunt.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/ca-accessories/shunts/shunt-raw.html

I chose the CA3 because I always love the newest stuff because I figure why buy a 286 when you can get a 386. =) The extra connectors do annoy me, but I plan to desolder them from the board someday.

The remote shunt can go anywhere before the controller. You don't need to cut anything. I bought a bunch of JST SM connectors from Amazon to make extensions.

http://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-712Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188SF2KS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

http://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-520Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188DMF3A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Which Cycle Analyst are you guys using on your builds?
CA3-DPS or CA3-HC? What about he remote shunt? Wondering how the implementation would work on a system setup with the batts in a backpack.
Looks like more adapters are needed to hookup the shunt. I do not like to cut the stock connectors off of batts or equipment.

 

[gman1971]

Thats right, why bother with a 286 when you can get a 386... man, those are like dinosaurs... the good old i386 @ 33Mhz those were good times dude...

G.

I'm using a CA3 with this shunt.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/ca-accessories/shunts/shunt-raw.html

I chose the CA3 because I always love the newest stuff because I figure why buy a 286 when you can get a 386. =) The extra connectors do annoy me, but I plan to desolder them from the board someday.

The remote shunt can go anywhere before the controller. You don't need to cut anything. I bought a bunch of JST SM connectors from Amazon to make extensions.

http://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-712Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188SF2KS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

http://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-520Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188DMF3A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Which Cycle Analyst are you guys using on your builds?
CA3-DPS or CA3-HC? What about he remote shunt? Wondering how the implementation would work on a system setup with the batts in a backpack.
Looks like more adapters are needed to hookup the shunt. I do not like to cut the stock connectors off of batts or equipment.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

144P? =) I think this sounds more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig&t=7m56s

Thanks. From that video, it sounds like most of the noise comes from the chain. In Gman's video (with his dog), there is a very audible motor whine.

 

[robocam]

You're welcome, but that's one of Gman's videos as well. Here's another by him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnGqSWCOEbY

I would say the gear whine increases under load. When I'm riding, I don't notice the chain noise, but I definitely hear the gears. I'm not bothered by it at all though. I hear it's a huge improvement over the previous Cyclone with metal gears. Are you looking for something super quiet? I read the Bafang BBSHD is quiet.

144P? =) I think this sounds more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig&t=7m56s

Thanks. From that video, it sounds like most of the noise comes from the chain. In Gman's video (with his dog), there is a very audible motor whine.

 

[robocam]

Haha, I remember upgrading from 4MB (which was quite a bit) to 8MB of RAM. $40 per 1MB stick. Then we got a 486DX-66 with 16MB of RAM. That 16MB stick of RAM cost $650! Computers are so stinkin' cheap these days.

Thats right, why bother with a 286 when you can get a 386... man, those are like dinosaurs... the good old i386 @ 33Mhz those were good times dude...

G.

I'm using a CA3 with this shunt.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/ca-accessories/shunts/shunt-raw.html

I chose the CA3 because I always love the newest stuff because I figure why buy a 286 when you can get a 386. =) The extra connectors do annoy me, but I plan to desolder them from the board someday.

The remote shunt can go anywhere before the controller. You don't need to cut anything. I bought a bunch of JST SM connectors from Amazon to make extensions.

http://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-712Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188SF2KS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

http://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-520Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188DMF3A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Which Cycle Analyst are you guys using on your builds?
CA3-DPS or CA3-HC? What about he remote shunt? Wondering how the implementation would work on a system setup with the batts in a backpack.
Looks like more adapters are needed to hookup the shunt. I do not like to cut the stock connectors off of batts or equipment.

 

[gman1971]

i486 DX2 66MHz... oh boy... now you're talking!

G.

Haha, I remember upgrading from 4MB (which was quite a bit) to 8MB of RAM. $40 per 1MB stick. Then we got a 486DX-66 with 16MB of RAM. That 16MB stick of RAM cost $650! Computers are so stinkin' cheap these days.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

You're welcome, but that's one of Gman's videos as well. Here's another by him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnGqSWCOEbY

I would say the gear whine increases under load. When I'm riding, I don't notice the chain noise, but I definitely hear the gears. I'm not bothered by it at all though. I hear it's a huge improvement over the previous Cyclone with metal gears. Are you looking for something super quiet? I read the Bafang BBSHD is quiet.

144P? =) I think this sounds more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig&t=7m56s

Thanks. From that video, it sounds like most of the noise comes from the chain. In Gman's video (with his dog), there is a very audible motor whine.

I already have a BBS02 as a daily driver. But I want a mid-drive hot rod with a lot more power, but still quiet. I want to avoid the hub motor route as well.

 

[RageNR]

Pshhhh... you guys...
I've got a Pentium III. My Y2K beast laps circles around your puny 486, running at 1 whole GiggleHurts. =D
Man oh man. I was just talking to my friend about my 1st PC a few days ago. That clunker was running Win95, a 32mb HDD, and some graphics card I couldn't even name.
My dad bought it for me when I was like 7. We installed the first Need For Speed on that machine. Took H O U R S . . .
How glorious and advanced 3D gaming was in that time. Completely blew our minds...

Ahhhhh, old technology. This concludes our trip down memory lane.

 

[DingusMcGee]

..... But I want a mid-drive hot rod with a lot more power, but still quiet. I want to avoid the hub motor route as well.

Simple! Sound proof it. You'll need to make some sound barriers -- kind of structures like mufflers, front fenders, hoods and firewalls that deaden the sound due to continuous explosions going on deep inside the ICE.

You will need to make a totally enclosed chainguard [around the rear derailleur ] and maybe switch to a Gates Belt Drive -- for reliability over a bike chain drive? You will need to make a sound blocking shroud around the motor with cowl induction at the front and some rear exit vent for this ram air that will cool the over amps effect you put to the motor. Get some quiet tires -- will Hookworms work or totally smooth?

Ever wonder what makes the Honda Goldwing so Quiet? Over a Harley?

So now you meet a hod rod hub drive and are at the starting line with your hot rod midrive for 3 runs. Your chain breaks on run 1. Your pawls break on round 2. You win run 3 as the torque arms fail on the hub motor.

Get a pair of ear plugs like I use with my Lightning Rod Small Block Fat Tire Bike.