new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Hey Sather,

I have received the 2 staton 20 mm adapters threaded for a different motor freewheel & cog setup than what Cyclone offers. As I already have an unused ACS 16T freewheel I did not order the high quality, high $$ White freewheel. I see Lightening Rod uses the ACS freewheel and adapter on the jack shaft. Are you trying any version of this setup?
 
I installed a spare 14t sbp "heavy duty", that I had on hand. I will not buy any more of them. I plan on taking the 20mm adapter down to Universal Cycles and see if they will let me look at a white 16t ($90). I know it will thread on, but I am concerned about where the adapter will position the sprocket laterally on the Cyclone motor shaft. https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9623&category=403

The 13t and 14t freewheels sold with the Cyclone are normal bike freewheels and are not designed to handle the 4 horsepower that the Cyclone puts out. According to Wikipedia " A trained cyclist can produce about 400 watts of mechanical power". Users report that bike freewheels only last approximately 4,000 miles when used under human power. I doubt that even the expensive White is strong enough to tolerate 3000 watts for very long.
 
I've used the stock freewheels for about 2300miles and on 48v never been a problem but I did eventually snap one tooth while running 72v so I think it's a little too much power on 72v but never any problems otherwise and I usually accelerate quickly.
 
Accelerating up to speed on level ground is a lot different than long steep climbs on rough, rocky ground.
The Cyclone freewheels are bicycle freewheels designed to handle 400 watts.

The stock Cyclone 3000 controller is limited to 40 amps.
So if you are using the stock controller: (48volts x 40 amps = 1920 watts)
(72 volts x 40 amps = 2880 watts)
 
Yeah it's different for sure but it's coped fine with it on steep rocky ground as well which is a lot of the riding now, unlike my SRAM chains which don't last long.

I think the reason we can get away with it is because even if only designed for a bike with 400w, a person pedaling can produce a lot of torque despite not being much power so they have to be fairly robust as a standard.
 
Where does this part normally go on a human-powered bike?

le15otl said:
Yeah it's different for sure but it's coped fine with it on steep rocky ground as well which is a lot of the riding now, unlike my SRAM chains which don't last long.

I think the reason we can get away with it is because even if only designed for a bike with 400w, a person pedaling can produce a lot of torque despite not being much power so they have to be fairly robust as a standard.
Click to expand...
 
Robocam: It goes on the rear wheel. Cyclone just reverses it with their 20 mm thread on adapter.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=402

le15otl:
600 motor rpm at 48V with 13/44 =177 crank rpm
900 motor rpm at 72V with 13/44 =265 crank rpm
Pretty difficult to pedal along with a Cyclone 3000 and add any human power without seriously lugging the motor and generating too much heat.
 
Sather,

perhaps a discrepancy of comparisons here when you say,

" A trained cyclist can produce about 400 watts of mechanical power" but,

when we are putting 3000 watts in as measured by the CA this energy is wattage input, not mechanical power. At 80% efficiency the motor output [Chupa page 35 this thread] would be at the motor freewheel = 2400 watts.

But yes, 6X the peddler's effort.
 
I notice the $73 Box freewheel has nine pawls, where most others only have three. https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=73349&category=402

The $90. White freewheel has 3 pawls: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9623&category=40

While the $109 White has 6 pawls. https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9634&category=402
 
sather said:
I notice the $73 Box freewheel has nine pawls, where most others only have three. https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=73349&category=402

The $90. White freewheel has 3 pawls: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9623&category=40

While the $109 White has 6 pawls. https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9634&category=402
Click to expand...


Maybe more is better. But sometimes more can be smaller pawls and small teeth.

And of course some lacking math skills? would say Less is More and it seems you are wondering whether less pawls and less cogs are more trouble?

I haven't paid the price to experiment with all these options to advise or know if more is less ....
 
[youtube]KR6WM3g7wBM[/youtube]

Cyclone 3000W Mid Drive paired with the Grin Phase Runner Compact FOC Controller. Not only does the Cyclone 3000W run smoother, quieter, more torque, but also runs at a higher RPM! This is the same controller that I have ran on my BBSHD with very very good results. Was able to bring the motor from 3000RPM to 4000RPM, and actually 5000RPM was briefly tested, sounds glorious. Starts very smoothly from a stop which should reduce the shock to the drivetrain significantly.
 
StinkyGoalieGuy said:
Nice. How many volts are you running at?
Click to expand...

Only 74V, very responsive and torquey. Way more top end than the stock controller.

[youtube]YZaufPgf3W0[/youtube]
 
Sinewave controllers are supposed to make motors more quiet. How does the noise level compare to the stock controller?
 
sather said:
Sinewave controllers are supposed to make motors more quiet. How does the noise level compare to the stock controller?
Click to expand...

Its actually about the same, perhaps a little quieter. RPM's are RPM's after all.
 
Remi812 said:
Anyone know where we can find those new mounting brackets ?
https://youtu.be/uUz_Ie_jsI0
Click to expand...
I love that bracket, it makes a lot of sense to me. I never liked the way the little aluminum blocks interfaced with the motor on the original bracket. Where they were located they could never be sandwiched tightly. Much better to have the plate on the other side like this new bracket.
 
The silver Cyclone motor freewheel failed after less than 200 miles -- locked up.

mod IMG_6724.jpg


The ACS freewheel was used on a Cromotor hub and got no use except freewheeling and rusting.

Sather, Robo et al thanks for posting your finding on the White hub -- will look into one of these as my $120 BB White freewheel hub is still rolling very smooth.

I would like to know how the cheaper ACS freewheels vs the $$ White freewheels compare in use expectancy.
 
Sather,

you report:

While the $109 White has 6 pawls. https://www.universalcycles.com/shoppin ... tegory=402


But I see are far lower price at Staton:

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=772



18 tooth Trials GREEN Freewheel Sprocket White Industries
Sale Price: $78.18
 
by Dogboy1200 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:44 am

Remi812 wrote:
Anyone know where we can find those new mounting brackets ?
https://youtu.be/uUz_Ie_jsI0

I love that bracket, it makes a lot of sense to me. I never liked the way the little aluminum blocks interfaced with the motor on the original bracket. Where they were located they could never be sandwiched tightly. Much better to have the plate on the other side like this new bracket.
Click to expand...

i think this bracket is not much of an improvement vs the original one as still only attaches to the motor with 4 bolts like standard, maybe yes in a better spot. I think i prefer the look of the LR or AFT version even better as it has the 4 inner bolt locations but also an extra plate and 2 extra bolt locations. So the mount is fixed to motor on 6 spots not only 4 points like this one.

Also It still looks to have the original weakness that people tried to fix on here with clamps that their is nothing stopping the sideways flex which derails chains , whereas the AFT one seems to be a Box section underneath which you could stops side to side flexing, but i think they run these C3000w at 5kw so maybe that's why they had to beef it up so much ?
 
Adapting a gear puller to remove the C-3000 motor hub is not always easy if there is little space between the planetary shell and the motor freewheel hub adapter as the pulling arms of the puller will not fit into such a small gap. There are some other ways to adapt a puller but these are tedious -- thread the case etc.

The tie rod removing tool, aka a pickle fork, works great for removing the hub adapter. Pickle forks come in different widths. Mine is one inch wide between the forks and still rests on the strong parts of the planetary case. The motor shaft is 20 mm so you will need a fork spread greater than that diameter.

mod IMG_6725.jpg

The pickle fork is a 2 pronged wedge and if the tips are too thick to fit for starting they can be ground or filed to a sharper starting angle.



To remove the hub adapter lightly tap the pickle forks into the space between the planetary case and the hub. I don't think you'll have to worry about harming the case as the hub adapter has no taper, nor does the shaft taper like a tie rod end. If you are worried heat the hub with a heating gun or torch. Anyway tap lightly and you likely will see the hub adapter move. Be sure to loosen the hub's Allen screws and if you have managed to flatten the end of the motor shaft wider than 20 mm you will need to reduce its size to pass thru the hub adapter easily.
 
Sorry, no torque sensors on my edirtbikes


but I do go through ebike throttles as they are not very durable to impact after I bail from the bike. Rather than pay the $25.00 to a local supplier I have found these deals ebay for the same throttle with no shipping charge.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/192035143692

at $11.65

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332041458872

at $11.11 and more than 10 are available.
 
thread the case etc
Click to expand...

I've seen those near the center of a cars brake disk, for instances where the disk has rusted itself onto the spindle. I believe its called a "jacking bolt" Good to have two of these, on directly opposite sides (three is better, evenly spaced...like a Mercedes hood ornament).

However method by which you might initially get the side-plates off, find a place where there is a flat spot on the rim of the central case, and that's the spot to drill and tap threads on the side-plate. Then, in the future, you insert a bolt into the threaded hole and turn it until the sideplate pops off.

If you don't like tapping threads, perhaps insert a steel nutsert and epoxy it into the hole.
 
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